How Can Fury Call Himself An ATG Heavyweight When He’s Not Even The Greatest Heavyweight Now????

[caldo2025]

Look, I’m a Fury fan. I love the act and the rebound. I even love his very awkward singing after bouts even though I have to quickly change the channel to avoid it.

But how in the world can this guy lay claim to greatness when there’s a huge doubt to him being the best heavyweight currently? Let’s face facts here, Usyk is a HUGE problem. Perhaps that’s why he’s sprung this whole “I quit” thing once he finally gets worldwide acclaim. My guess is that Usyk has a ton to do with it. Maybe Fury fights AJ for goofs for the Brits longing to see the clash, which I completely understand due to the mad amount of dollars to be paid. But only the novice of boxing fans would call Fury great without fighting Usyk before it’s all said and done.

How can you be an ATG if you couldn’t even prove that you were the best of your era? You can’t.

[DrDuke]

Yes, leaving Usyk alone at this point isn't a good sign. They both are ATGs though. Right now this cituation has a relative similarity to the Lewis-Bowe case. Those two became considered ATGs without fighting each other, while at some point they had been in the top 2 mix.

[Sed]

This fight has to happen

[H8Usernames]

Oleksander Usyk is a cruiserweight who at the age of 21 competed as an amateur in the light heavyweight division.

Tyson Fury is 6"9 heavyweight. 2 inches taller than Vitali Klitschko was and he isn't suffering from the robotic matchstickman syndrome like Vitali was.

This is just Vitali Klitschko vs Tomasz Adamek II. This isn't a good fight and one that I would rather not see happen.

[margaret thatcher]

Oleksander Usyk is a cruiserweight who at the age of 21 competed as an amateur in the light heavyweight division.

Tyson Fury is 6"9 heavyweight. 2 inches taller than Vitali Klitschko was and he isn't suffering from the robotic matchstickman syndrome like Vitali was.

This is just Vitali Klitschko vs Tomasz Adamek II. This isn't a good fight and one that I would rather not see happen.

fury vs otto wallin wasnt even vit vs admaek lol

2 of furys hardest fights have come against quick mobile guys he was much bigger than actually. usyk way better than both of them too. a much tougher style for him than a plodder who will just come forward eating jabs

[H8Usernames]

Oleksander Usyk is a cruiserweight who at the age of 21 competed as an amateur in the light heavyweight division.

Tyson Fury is 6"9 heavyweight. 2 inches taller than Vitali Klitschko was and he isn't suffering from the robotic matchstickman syndrome like Vitali was.

This is just Vitali Klitschko vs Tomasz Adamek II. This isn't a good fight and one that I would rather not see happen.

fury vs otto wallin wasnt even vit vs admaek lol

2 of furys hardest fights have come against quick mobile guys he was much bigger than actually. usyk way better than both of them too. a much tougher style for him than a plodder who will just come forward eating jabs

What fights were those?

[Enlightened-One]

Boxing history is littered with rivalries that never resulted in bouts being made, but ultimately didn’t affect the legacies of either fighter to any great degree.

The same will almost certainly apply to both Usyk and Fury.

Here’s an old post of mine from years ago (fights that marinated [could have happened], but never did... or happened well past their expiry dates, when it was far too late):

• Barry McGuigan vs. Azumah Nelson (1986)
• Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock vs. Corrie Sanders (1990)
• Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock vs. Evander 'The Real Deal' Holyfield (1992)
• Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock vs. Riddick 'Big Daddy' Bowe (1992)
• Evander ‘The Real Deal’ Holyfield vs. Lennox Lewis (1996 instead of 1999)
• Evander ‘The Real Deal’ Holyfield vs. Mike Tyson (1990 instead of 1997)
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Antonio Margarito (2007)
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Kostya Tszyu (2004)
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Manny Pacquiao (2009)
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Paul Williams (2005)
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Shane Mosley (2005)
• George Foreman vs. Larry Holmes (1977, 1992 & 2002)
• George Foreman vs. Lennox Lewis (1998.)
• George Foreman vs. Mike Tyson (1990)
• George Foreman vs. Muhammad Ali II (1976)
• George Foreman vs. Sonny Liston (1969)
• Herbie Hide vs. Jeremy Williams (1996)
• Herbie Hide vs. Tommy Morrison (1993)
• Herol ‘Bomber’ Graham vs. Chris Eubank (1990)
• Herol ‘Bomber’ Graham vs. Marvin Hagler (1987)
• Herol ‘Bomber’ Graham vs. Nigel Benn (1990)
• Herol ‘Bomber’ Graham vs. Steve Collins (1989)
• Herol 'Bomber' Graham vs. Kirkland Laing (1980)
• Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Evander Holyfield (1999)
• Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Lennox Lewis (1999)
• Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Mike Tyson (1999)
• Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Oliver McCall (1999)
• Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Vitali Klitschko (1999)
• Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Wladimir Klitschko (1999)
• James Toney vs. Bernard Hopkins (1993)
• James Toney vs. Chris Eubank (1993)
• James Toney vs. Mike Tyson (2003)
• James Toney vs. Nigel Benn (1993)
• James Toney vs. Steve Collins (1992)
• Joe Calzaghe vs. Carl Froch (2008.)
• Joe Calzaghe vs. Steve Collins (1997)
• Joe Calzaghe vs. Sven Ottke (2002)
• Joe Frazier vs. Kenny Norton (1973)
• Jose Luis Castillo vs. Diego Corrales III (2005)
• Juan Manuel Márquez vs. Eric Morales (2003)
• Julian Jackson vs. Michael Nunn (1989)
• Julian Jackson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard (1989)
• Julian Jackson vs. Tommy Hearns (1989)
• Kostya Tszyu vs. Oscar De La Hoya (1997)
• Kostya Tszyu vs. Vernon Forrest (1995)
• Marvin Hagler vs. Mike McCallum (1987)
• Marvin Hagler vs. Tommy Hearns II (1985)
• Michael Moorer vs. Virgil Hill (1990)
• Mike Tyson vs. David Tua (2000)
• Mike Tyson vs. Riddick Bowe (1996)
• Mike Tyson vs. Vitali Klitschko (2000)
• Mike Tyson vs. Wladimir Klitschko (2000)
• Naseem Hamed vs. Juan Manuel Márquez (1997)
• Naseem Hamed vs. Manny Pacquiao (2000)
• Nigel Benn vs. Chris Eubank III (1994)
• Oscar De La Hoya vs. Felix Trinidad II (2000)
• Pernell 'Sweet Pea' Whitaker vs. Meldrick Taylor (1991)
• Pernell 'Sweet Pea' Whitaker vs. 'Terrible' Terry Norris (1995)
• Ray Mercer vs. Evander ‘The Real Deal’ Holyfield II (1995)
• Ray Mercer vs. Lennox Lewis II (1995)
• Ricky Hatton vs. Miguel Cotto (2005)
• Riddick Bowe vs. Lennox Lewis (1996)
• Roberto Duran vs. Herol ‘Bomber’ Graham (1989)
• Roberto Duran vs. Julian Jackson (1989)
• Roberto Duran vs. Nigel Benn (1989)
• Roberto Duran vs. Thomas Hearns (1980 instead of 1984)
• Rocky Marciano vs. Floyd Patterson (1956)
• Rocky Marciano vs. Ingemar Johansson (1956)
• Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston (1956)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. Bernard Hopkins (2002)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. Dariusz Michalczewski (2002)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. Evander ‘The Real Deal’ Holyfield (2003)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. Gerald McClellan (1995)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. James Toney II (2003)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. Joe Calzaghe (1997)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. Mike McCallum (1994 instead of 1996)
• Roy Jones Jr. vs. Mike Tyson (2003)
• Sergio Martinez vs. Antonio Margarito II (2004 or 2009)
• Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Aaron Pryor (1982)
• Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Marvin Hagler II (1988.)
• Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Michael Nunn (1988.)
• Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Tommy Hearns II (1987 instead of 1989)
• 'Terrible' Terry Norris vs. Felix 'Tito' Trinidad (1997)
• Tommy Morrison vs. 'Smokin' Bert Cooper (1993)

• Notes: Some of these super-fights actually got to the stage of the negotiation table but the boxers either couldn’t agree terms or the contest was eventually cancelled for one reason or another.

• You may also notice that some of the fights in my list actually took place, but unfortunately at the wrong time, which is why I’ve still included them (by expressing a more appropriate year).

• I have estimated the years that the fight could have happened… or where I think negotiations actually took place but the contest never materialised.

• In my mind, there’s no point in speculating about “The Best Fights That Never Happened”… if they could have never taken place due to both fighters competing in completely different eras or weight classes. It’s far better to discuss bouts that were theoretically highly-possible.

[margaret thatcher]

fury and usyk (at hw) dont have deep resumes, any win over another elite guy helps their legacy a bunch, especially with the undisputed title on the line

[Enlightened-One]

fury and usyk (at hw) dont have deep resumes, any win over another elite guy helps their legacy a bunch, especially with the undisputed title on the line

I completely agree!

I’d love to see the victor of the Usyk-Joshua rematch face Fury.

But if it doesn’t happen, then I feel that Tyson Fury will still be regarded as the very best of his era, albeit there’ll be question marks surrounding his legacy (much akin to Riddick Bowe’s time at the top between 1992 and 1995).

In order for Fury’s legacy to progress to the next level though, becoming remotely close to Lennox Lewis’, he really needs to beat the winner of the Usyk-Joshua rematch.

That said, I’m not too fussed about Tyson Fury emulating the likes of Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis, by enjoying a lengthy title reign, resulting in him beating many relatively anonymous title challengers.

I don’t think The Gypsy King needs to do that.

[sibbo]

As much as I'd like to see Fury vs Usyk, I've no problem with fury retiring, he's had an unbeaten 13 year career, he's a two time champ, he's been in some great fights and made 150 million quid, and leaves the sport on his own terms with his health intact, so good luck to him.... Usyk is now the man, and I look forward to seeing him carve out his own legacy at heavyweight

[tigermoth87]

He is THE ATG

You judge ATG by would they be able to beat any of the boxers before, and the answer is a resounding yes.

People look at the 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses. Athletes get better with every generation. Fact.

Ali and Foreman and the rest NEVER fought anybody who comes CLOSE to the SIZE of Tyson Fury. And I know some bonehead will come in and say "sIzE IsN't EvErYtHiNg LoOk aT vAlUeV" ignoring the fact that not only is Fury massive, he uses his height and weight extremely well AND he moves like someone much smaller. Fact

No boxer from the past with the possible exception of Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko would beat Fury because of the sheer size and weight difference. Joe Lewis was just 6'1. Marciano was just 5'8. Foreman, considered a giant of his time, would be average height at best today. Fact.

[Finkel]

So Fury wins one half of his semi-final and is just going to peace out?

I like Fury, but his resume isn't deep enough without the undisputed fight

[littlepug]

He is THE ATG

You judge ATG by would they be able to beat any of the boxers before, and the answer is a resounding yes.

People look at the 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses. Athletes get better with every generation. Fact.

Ali and Foreman and the rest NEVER fought anybody who comes CLOSE to the SIZE of Tyson Fury. And I know some bonehead will come in and say "sIzE IsN't EvErYtHiNg LoOk aT vAlUeV" ignoring the fact that not only is Fury massive, he uses his height and weight extremely well AND he moves like someone much smaller. Fact

No boxer from the past with the possible exception of Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko would beat Fury because of the sheer size and weight difference. Joe Lewis was just 6'1. Marciano was just 5'8. Foreman, considered a giant of his time, would be average height at best today. Fact.

That is not how you evaluate ATG status at all!! Crikey mate what you’re talking about is a mythical matchup list, that’s schoolyard stuff, ATG status is judged by achievements in the era you completed, so who you fought, results, method and manner of results, when the fights happened, longevity ect

[RScarf1]

He is THE ATG

You judge ATG by would they be able to beat any of the boxers before, and the answer is a resounding yes.

People look at the 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses. Athletes get better with every generation. Fact.

Ali and Foreman and the rest NEVER fought anybody who comes CLOSE to the SIZE of Tyson Fury. And I know some bonehead will come in and say "sIzE IsN't EvErYtHiNg LoOk aT vAlUeV" ignoring the fact that not only is Fury massive, he uses his height and weight extremely well AND he moves like someone much smaller. Fact

No boxer from the past with the possible exception of Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko would beat Fury because of the sheer size and weight difference. Joe Lewis was just 6'1. Marciano was just 5'8. Foreman, considered a giant of his time, would be average height at best today. Fact.

That is not how you evaluate ATG status at all!! Crikey mate what you’re talking about is a mythical matchup list, that’s schoolyard stuff, ATG status is judged by achievements in the era you completed, so who you fought, results, method and manner of results, when the fights happened, longevity ect

Fury was almost beaten by Wladimir Klitschko who was past his prime. I scored the fight a draw, but the judges scored it for Fury. If that is the case that no boxer from the past except for Lewis and Vitali K. would beat Fury, then why is Fury retiring now? Why not wait to fight the winner of Usyk vs. Joshua II? I think George Foreman, Larry Holmes, and Riddick Bowe would beat Fury, especially if they are all in their primes. The best opponent Fury beat is Wilder because Wladimir was not in his prime. Is that good enough to be considered an all time great? I don't think so.

[The Docker]

He is THE ATG

You judge ATG by would they be able to beat any of the boxers before, and the answer is a resounding yes.

People look at the 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses. Athletes get better with every generation. Fact.

Ali and Foreman and the rest NEVER fought anybody who comes CLOSE to the SIZE of Tyson Fury. And I know some bonehead will come in and say "sIzE IsN't EvErYtHiNg LoOk aT vAlUeV" ignoring the fact that not only is Fury massive, he uses his height and weight extremely well AND he moves like someone much smaller. Fact

No boxer from the past with the possible exception of Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko would beat Fury because of the sheer size and weight difference. Joe Lewis was just 6'1. Marciano was just 5'8. Foreman, considered a giant of his time, would be average height at best today. Fact.

That is not how you evaluate ATG status at all!! Crikey mate what you’re talking about is a mythical matchup list, that’s schoolyard stuff, ATG status is judged by achievements in the era you completed, so who you fought, results, method and manner of results, when the fights happened, longevity ect

Yeah that is a really good post.

Horseracing has a rating system that is tried and tested, maybe boxing should follow suit so us internet warriors have something tangible to work off, albeit we'd argue the F of its conclussions were it not to our liking.

[sibbo]

Yeah I think it's fair to say that fury never fully implemented his potential, he's an ATG for sure, but his resume knocks him down the list compared to the likes of Ali, Holmes, Lewis etc, he could have been much higher, but I guess that kind of commitment just wasn't in his makeup.

[Enlightened-One]

Fury was almost beaten by Wladimir Klitschko who was past his prime. I scored the fight a draw, but the judges scored it for Fury.

The general consensus of the media, the fans and also the official scorecards had Fury beating Klitschko by a comfortable 116-111 margin (with Tyson being deducted a point in the 11th round).

Most people believed that Wladimir only won three rounds.

[caldo2025]

He is THE ATG

You judge ATG by would they be able to beat any of the boxers before, and the answer is a resounding yes.

People look at the 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses. Athletes get better with every generation. Fact.

Ali and Foreman and the rest NEVER fought anybody who comes CLOSE to the SIZE of Tyson Fury. And I know some bonehead will come in and say "sIzE IsN't EvErYtHiNg LoOk aT vAlUeV" ignoring the fact that not only is Fury massive, he uses his height and weight extremely well AND he moves like someone much smaller. Fact

No boxer from the past with the possible exception of Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko would beat Fury because of the sheer size and weight difference. Joe Lewis was just 6'1. Marciano was just 5'8. Foreman, considered a giant of his time, would be average height at best today. Fact.

Your high again. Dude, try to hit that stuff less so you can make sense of stuff. Nothing at all is clear with Fury when it comes to his ATG status. A huge part of being great has to do with title defenses and how long the fighter maintains being the baddest man on the planet.

And let’s be honest here for a minute. Fury is probably the luckiest boxer on the planet that he happened to have Jack reffing the first Wilder fight because 99% of all refs would have called the fight off without counting on that knockdown. How he didn’t shows what a great ref he is but let’s be honest, that could have clearly been a knockout loss. The fact that it got to that situation can’t help the greatness claim much.

[caldo2025]

Fury was almost beaten by Wladimir Klitschko who was past his prime. I scored the fight a draw, but the judges scored it for Fury.

The general consensus of the media, the fans and also the official scorecards had Fury beating Klitschko by a comfortable 116-111 margin (with Tyson being deducted a point in the 11th round).

Most people believed that Wladimir only won three rounds.

Let’s also point out that the fight is in the running for THE WORST fight in the history of people smacking each other for sport.

[sibbo]

He is THE ATG

You judge ATG by would they be able to beat any of the boxers before, and the answer is a resounding yes.

People look at the 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses. Athletes get better with every generation. Fact.

Ali and Foreman and the rest NEVER fought anybody who comes CLOSE to the SIZE of Tyson Fury. And I know some bonehead will come in and say "sIzE IsN't EvErYtHiNg LoOk aT vAlUeV" ignoring the fact that not only is Fury massive, he uses his height and weight extremely well AND he moves like someone much smaller. Fact

No boxer from the past with the possible exception of Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko would beat Fury because of the sheer size and weight difference. Joe Lewis was just 6'1. Marciano was just 5'8. Foreman, considered a giant of his time, would be average height at best today. Fact.

Your high again. Dude, try to hit that stuff less so you can make sense of stuff. Nothing at all is clear with Fury when it comes to his ATG status. A huge part of being great has to do with title defenses and how long the fighter maintains being the baddest man on the planet.

And let’s be honest here for a minute. Fury is probably the luckiest boxer on the planet that he happened to have Jack reffing the first Wilder fight because 99% of all refs would have called the fight off without counting on that knockdown. How he didn’t shows what a great ref he is but let’s be honest, that could have clearly been a knockout loss. The fact that it got to that situation can’t help the greatness claim much.

So Fury is the luckiest boxer on the planet because the ref did his job correctly? And then goes on to get jobbed by the judges.... Not that lucky in my opinion.

[ewenhay]

If Fury wants to retire then that's his perogative and I would respect any fighter's decision to retire with their health intact at a point of their own choosing.

If he does he will probably be remembered in time as the best of his generation. A win against Usyk would probably cement it though, even though Usyk is pretty late to the heavyweight party.

As much as I enjoy Fury I don't see him in the atg discussion at all. But that's probably because I base my atgs on their actual achievements rather than on mythical match ups based on size.

[caldo2025]

He is THE ATG

You judge ATG by would they be able to beat any of the boxers before, and the answer is a resounding yes.

People look at the 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses. Athletes get better with every generation. Fact.

Ali and Foreman and the rest NEVER fought anybody who comes CLOSE to the SIZE of Tyson Fury. And I know some bonehead will come in and say "sIzE IsN't EvErYtHiNg LoOk aT vAlUeV" ignoring the fact that not only is Fury massive, he uses his height and weight extremely well AND he moves like someone much smaller. Fact

No boxer from the past with the possible exception of Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko would beat Fury because of the sheer size and weight difference. Joe Lewis was just 6'1. Marciano was just 5'8. Foreman, considered a giant of his time, would be average height at best today. Fact.

Your high again. Dude, try to hit that stuff less so you can make sense of stuff. Nothing at all is clear with Fury when it comes to his ATG status. A huge part of being great has to do with title defenses and how long the fighter maintains being the baddest man on the planet.

And let’s be honest here for a minute. Fury is probably the luckiest boxer on the planet that he happened to have Jack reffing the first Wilder fight because 99% of all refs would have called the fight off without counting on that knockdown. How he didn’t shows what a great ref he is but let’s be honest, that could have clearly been a knockout loss. The fact that it got to that situation can’t help the greatness claim much.

So Fury is the luckiest boxer on the planet because the ref did his job correctly? And then goes on to get jobbed by the judges.... Not that lucky in my opinion.

If you don’t agree that he was fortunate to be a given a count instead of the ref waving him out after that knockdown then you haven’t watched enough boxing. Because most jarring knockdowns nowadays aren’t even given a count. They are immediately waved off. Even when I watch the replay of it now, I can’t believe that he was given the chance to get up. His eyes rolled up in his head, straight on his back not moving. It’s crazy that he got a count. I loved it. Don’t get me wrong but very fortunate.

[Tony1244]

I think fighters should be given a count. I remember Bruce Seldon didn't move for 8-9 seconds, got up immediately, and then won the fight. Waving it off doesn't protect anyone's health. See how the fighter reacts first. Give him a count.

[caldo2025]

I think fighters should be given a count. I remember Bruce Seldon didn't move for 8-9 seconds, got up immediately, and then won the fight. Waving it off doesn't protect anyone's health. See how the fighter reacts first. Give him a count.

I completely agree. It should be mandatory to be counted out just in case of these rare scenarios. The Ref has a way better idea of the boxer’s condition once up on their feet and looking in their eyes after beating the count. But there are cases in which a boxer should remain immobile on the canvas to await medical attention. But I think that refs are way to quick to wave off a fighter without affording him the ten count. I’m sure there are many more examples of fighters narrowly averting being counted out to win fights. Nowadays, you just don’t see fighters being given the chance for obvious reasons I guess.

[gilgamesh]

Does he call himself an ATG Heavyweight?