Why isn't it on BoxRec?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSI_vs_Sw ... raz_Pineda
KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
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pugilisticspecialist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 252
- Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:23
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
Was not professional boxing.
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Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9153
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
Was fully sanctioned by the California State Athletic Commission.
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
It has been widely reported as Professional Boxing because LEGALLY it is PRO BOXING and it was regulated and sanctioned the Professional Boxing Association (Formerly the Professional Boxers Promoters Association). Just because its not sanctioned/regulated by Boxrec's preferred Commissions doesnt mean it is not Pro Boxing. This is an arguement John and his wife Marina? Keep getting allegedly sued for, albeit no one has ever seen a Uk Court listing of any such hearings.
Boxrec is a fantastic site and the years of development of this platform has been impressive and is a valuable tool for all in the boxing community but I fear its stuck in the dark ages, it appears Boxrec hasnt been kept up to date with the latest Home Office legal definitions as per law and regulation. May be John can make a comment on this. (I dont believe he will as it will open a can of worms). The state of boxing is a mess so I dont blame boxrec for being traditional, however, as an OFFICIAL RECORD KEEPER, it should keep the records or provide an alternate tab like boxrec has done for amateur boxing etc.
This is an arguement Boxrec need to take up with the Home Office, UK Government. The UK Government Home Office defines KSI's event as legally pro boxing. This LEGAL CHANGE happened on the 7th March 2019. So in effect legally those who are on the "unlicenced circuit" if they are in receipt of payment are class as "Professional Sportpersons".
https://www.carterthomas.co.uk/2019/01/ ... rtsperson/
KSI is legally defined as a "Professional Sportsperson" and so are all these influencer boxers:
Quotes from the link:
" A “Professional Sportsperson”, is someone, whether paid or unpaid, who:
is currently providing services as a sportsperson, playing or coaching in any capacity, at a professional or semi-professional level of sport;
is currently receiving payment, including payment in kind, for playing or coaching that is covering all, or the majority of, their costs for travelling to, and living in the UK, or who has done so within the previous four years;
is currently registered to a professional or semi-professional sports team, or who has been so registered within the previous four years. This includes all academy and development team age groups;
has represented their nation or national team within the previous two years, including all youth and development age groups from under 17’s upwards;
has represented their state or regional team within the previous two years, including all youth and development age groups from under 17’s upwards;
has an established international reputation in their chosen field of sport;
engages an agent or representative, with the aim of finding opportunities as a sportsperson, and/or developing a current or future career as a sportsperson, or has engaged such an agent in the last 12 months; and/or
is providing services as a sportsperson or coach at any level of sport, unless they are doing so as an “Amateur” in a charity event.”
This new definition removes the previous requirement that a professional sportsperson must be someone who has derived, or is seeking to derive, a living from such activities.
......
An “Amateur” is a person who engages in a sport or creative activity solely for personal enjoyment and who is not seeking to derive a living from the activity. This also includes a person playing or coaching in a charity game.”
The definition of an amateur sportsperson has not changed so individuals may still argue that they are engaging in the sport ‘solely for personal enjoyment’. However, some of the scenarios in the new professional sportsperson definition now conflict with the amateur sportsperson definition so a cautious approach should be taken."
This is from the UK Government and Home Office, so dont shoot the messenger. Its not for me to agree or disagree with boxrec or anyone on here. The Law and Uk Government (Home Office) state what the definition of Professional Sports and Sportsperson is and the law is on the side of KSI's "2 fights 1 night" event is a Professional Boxing Show with Professional Boxers on it.
The answer to the OG Post is that it is reported as Pro Boxing because because the law says it is and no boxing Commision, governing body, or record keeper has jurisdiction to override that. Only UK Government can.
Boxrec is a fantastic site and the years of development of this platform has been impressive and is a valuable tool for all in the boxing community but I fear its stuck in the dark ages, it appears Boxrec hasnt been kept up to date with the latest Home Office legal definitions as per law and regulation. May be John can make a comment on this. (I dont believe he will as it will open a can of worms). The state of boxing is a mess so I dont blame boxrec for being traditional, however, as an OFFICIAL RECORD KEEPER, it should keep the records or provide an alternate tab like boxrec has done for amateur boxing etc.
This is an arguement Boxrec need to take up with the Home Office, UK Government. The UK Government Home Office defines KSI's event as legally pro boxing. This LEGAL CHANGE happened on the 7th March 2019. So in effect legally those who are on the "unlicenced circuit" if they are in receipt of payment are class as "Professional Sportpersons".
https://www.carterthomas.co.uk/2019/01/ ... rtsperson/
KSI is legally defined as a "Professional Sportsperson" and so are all these influencer boxers:
Quotes from the link:
" A “Professional Sportsperson”, is someone, whether paid or unpaid, who:
is currently providing services as a sportsperson, playing or coaching in any capacity, at a professional or semi-professional level of sport;
is currently receiving payment, including payment in kind, for playing or coaching that is covering all, or the majority of, their costs for travelling to, and living in the UK, or who has done so within the previous four years;
is currently registered to a professional or semi-professional sports team, or who has been so registered within the previous four years. This includes all academy and development team age groups;
has represented their nation or national team within the previous two years, including all youth and development age groups from under 17’s upwards;
has represented their state or regional team within the previous two years, including all youth and development age groups from under 17’s upwards;
has an established international reputation in their chosen field of sport;
engages an agent or representative, with the aim of finding opportunities as a sportsperson, and/or developing a current or future career as a sportsperson, or has engaged such an agent in the last 12 months; and/or
is providing services as a sportsperson or coach at any level of sport, unless they are doing so as an “Amateur” in a charity event.”
This new definition removes the previous requirement that a professional sportsperson must be someone who has derived, or is seeking to derive, a living from such activities.
......
An “Amateur” is a person who engages in a sport or creative activity solely for personal enjoyment and who is not seeking to derive a living from the activity. This also includes a person playing or coaching in a charity game.”
The definition of an amateur sportsperson has not changed so individuals may still argue that they are engaging in the sport ‘solely for personal enjoyment’. However, some of the scenarios in the new professional sportsperson definition now conflict with the amateur sportsperson definition so a cautious approach should be taken."
This is from the UK Government and Home Office, so dont shoot the messenger. Its not for me to agree or disagree with boxrec or anyone on here. The Law and Uk Government (Home Office) state what the definition of Professional Sports and Sportsperson is and the law is on the side of KSI's "2 fights 1 night" event is a Professional Boxing Show with Professional Boxers on it.
The answer to the OG Post is that it is reported as Pro Boxing because because the law says it is and no boxing Commision, governing body, or record keeper has jurisdiction to override that. Only UK Government can.
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
If the British Government deems it as professional boxing then why does BoxRec not count it? They could at least put it alongside like they have done with some amateur fights if it doesn't comply with the commissions that BoxRec takes its data from, but at the end of the day the website is to file statistics from fights and not putting legally professional fights on the site just seems like a way to make less people want to visit the site. Just my opinion on the matter.
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
Only Boxrec can answer that. However, this is something that is not going away. So burying the head in sand isn’t going to make the issue disappear. There are people in the boxing community wanting this debate with Boxrec, if/when it happens it’ll be an interesting watch but I can’t see it happening.
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Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9153
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
The trouble with these definitions is they leave the door open for anyone to call themselves a pro at whatever sport they participate in as it says you don't need to be paid or make a living from it plus it uses the term semi-pro too. So what does that mean then, someone who plays semi-pro football every week is a now a professional footballer? An amateur boxer who fights internationally and gets funding is also technically a pro? If a bunch of you-tubers all fight each other, create a title and someone wins it they should be classed as a pro world champ?rpf7389 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2022, 07:10
" A “Professional Sportsperson”, is someone, whether paid or unpaid, who:
is currently providing services as a sportsperson, playing or coaching in any capacity, at a professional or semi-professional level of sport;
is currently receiving payment, including payment in kind, for playing or coaching that is covering all, or the majority of, their costs for travelling to, and living in the UK, or who has done so within the previous four years;
is currently registered to a professional or semi-professional sports team, or who has been so registered within the previous four years. This includes all academy and development team age groups;
has represented their nation or national team within the previous two years, including all youth and development age groups from under 17’s upwards;
has represented their state or regional team within the previous two years, including all youth and development age groups from under 17’s upwards;
has an established international reputation in their chosen field of sport;
engages an agent or representative, with the aim of finding opportunities as a sportsperson, and/or developing a current or future career as a sportsperson, or has engaged such an agent in the last 12 months; and/or is providing services as a sportsperson or coach at any level of sport, unless they are doing so as an “Amateur” in a charity event.”
This new definition removes the previous requirement that a professional sportsperson must be someone who has derived, or is seeking to derive, a living from such activities.
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
AiBA now know as IBA has removed the word amateur from all national governing bodies , renaming it “Olympic style boxing” .
On the IBA international elite boxers at world championships , Olympics etc receive large prize money. Team GB boxers get an “allowance” £ .
Re: YouTube boxers being world champs ..
That’s what KSI fought for .. ICB world cruiserweight championship .. influencer championship boxing .. sanctioned by professional boxing association..
By legal definition it’s pro boxing and the influencer world title is a pro boxing title .. as per legal definition…
On the IBA international elite boxers at world championships , Olympics etc receive large prize money. Team GB boxers get an “allowance” £ .
Re: YouTube boxers being world champs ..
That’s what KSI fought for .. ICB world cruiserweight championship .. influencer championship boxing .. sanctioned by professional boxing association..
By legal definition it’s pro boxing and the influencer world title is a pro boxing title .. as per legal definition…
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margaret thatcher
- Featherweight
- Posts: 39224
- Joined: 22 Jul 2019, 15:43
Re: KSI's "2 Fights 1 Night" was widely reported as a pro event.
how's it going ksi 