P4P Heavyweights

[JohnP2]

Okay, I will throw this out there then run for cover.
1. Should HW’s be considered in P4P rankings?
2. My personal opinion is yes. I guess it all depends how one looks at the concept
3. As an example, I feel Nas is perhaps one of the biggest puncher (FOR HIS WEIGHT CLASS) in history. Although Inoue is creeping on that list.
4. To that end, I feel Wilder is the most devastating puncher in boxing history—and I grew up with Liston, Shavers, Foreman, Norton, Lyle, on to Tyson, Morrison, et al. Just my opinion but I believe 10 -20 years from now your grandkids will be watching Wilder highlights over Fury.
5. In my twisted mind, I guess it comes down to with everything being equal (weight, opponents, etc) who would win?

That’s all I got. I realize this has probably been discussed/cussed over in this forum but wanted to sincerely hear your views on this, so go easy swinging your purses at me (you know what I mean).
-Best

[HomicideHenry]

In my personal opinion pound for pound rankings should be about everyone else in the sport of boxing. In theory the man who is heavyweight champion of the world can defeat any other boxer regardless of weight class so he is quite literally at the top of the sport.

So to have heavyweights in the pound for pound does a disservice to everyone else, although now that I think about it it sounds like the very first instance of participation trophies "Here you are number one on this mythical ranking system so you feel special too."

That being said I would only include a heavyweight to the pound for pound list if that heavyweight won the undisputed championship and/or had an incredible year where they defeated two or three or even four contenders in the top 10.

[Heretic]

In my personal opinion pound for pound rankings should be about everyone else in the sport of boxing. In theory the man who is heavyweight champion of the world can defeat any other boxer regardless of weight class so he is quite literally at the top of the sport.

I think Usyk would disagree with you here. Just couple of years ago he was ruling the CW division. AJ was the top dog at HW. Fury looked like a whale.

Then Usyk decided to move up a division. The rest is history.

[HomicideHenry]

In my personal opinion pound for pound rankings should be about everyone else in the sport of boxing. In theory the man who is heavyweight champion of the world can defeat any other boxer regardless of weight class so he is quite literally at the top of the sport.

I think Usyk would disagree with you here. Just couple of years ago he was ruling the CW division. AJ was the top dog at HW. Fury looked like a whale.

Then Usyk decided to move up a division. The rest is history.

He is an exception to the p4p standard Iaid out simply because of him jumping from one division to another. He is not a natural heavyweight though. After all this man as an adult in the amateurs had boxing matches with Shawn Porter. He has purposely bulked up over time.

I give him props for jumping from cruiserweight to heavyweight and essentially defeating the pretender to the crown Anthony Joshua, and for that he makes the top 10 p4p list for 2021-2022. But since he is now a heavyweight he will be judged strictly on his performances as a heavyweight because he no longer has the luxury of jumping weight classes to elevate his position.

[DrDuke]

Why not to rate them? Of course, winning some strap in HW division doesn't necessarily bring such 'champion' in consideration. By if a champ cleans up his division, he should be rated.

Some fighters collect single straps in several lower weights, like feather, light, welter, etc, but they can win the least meaningful belts, thus a HW, who cleans up his single division has a more convincing p4p claim in comparison to that multi-weight sh1t-strap collector.

[gilgamesh]

I just look at it as the best fighters, most accomplished fighters, most skilled fighters in the sport.

Weight doesn't really factor in for me.

[oogiebe]

of course you use HW's in p4p. That's the point. "If p4p" who's the better fighter is the name of the game rather than Big George Foreman vs Duran straight up. Duh!

[emallini]

Roy Jones was P4P No1 and heavyweight champ

[DrDuke]

Roy Jones was P4P No1 and heavyweight champ

Although his HW title was the least meaningful in the division of that period, since it was held by John Ruiz during an inargual reign of Lennox Lewis.

[Mexi-Box]

Pretty sure Wladimir Klitschko was #1 p4p very briefly before the Fury fight. Mayweather beat Berto and announced his retirement, so it was open. Some had Gonzalez above him, though, but it was debatable. I also just say whoever is the best. Usyk as HW champion can easily become p4p #1 by beating Fury.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Pretty sure Wladimir Klitschko was #1 p4p very briefly before the Fury fight. Mayweather beat Berto and announced his retirement, so it was open. Some had Gonzalez above him, though, but it was debatable. I also just say whoever is the best. Usyk as HW champion can easily become p4p #1 by beating Fury.

Yea he was.

[DrDuke]

Pretty sure Wladimir Klitschko was #1 p4p very briefly before the Fury fight. Mayweather beat Berto and announced his retirement, so it was open. Some had Gonzalez above him, though, but it was debatable. I also just say whoever is the best. Usyk as HW champion can easily become p4p #1 by beating Fury.

Yea he was.

Wlad's highest p4p was #2 in 2014.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Pretty sure Wladimir Klitschko was #1 p4p very briefly before the Fury fight. Mayweather beat Berto and announced his retirement, so it was open. Some had Gonzalez above him, though, but it was debatable. I also just say whoever is the best. Usyk as HW champion can easily become p4p #1 by beating Fury.

Yea he was.

Wlad's highest p4p was #2 in 2014.

Different orgs have their own rankings don't they. But I think you're right.

[DrDuke]

Yea he was.

Wlad's highest p4p was #2 in 2014.

Different orgs have their own rankings don't they. But I think you're right.

I mentioned the Ring ranking.

[franciscojavier]

This post reminded me, boxrec’s page for the old Ring Magazine P4P rankings lists Riddick Bowe as #6 both the year he won the title against Holyfield(1992) and the year before in 91. I knew Bowe was a very very highly touted prospect during his come-up, but damn if that’s not a typo and he was rated #6 P4P before he even won the title then that’s really a sign of a special fighter(which he was in his prime).

[DrDuke]

This post reminded me, boxrec’s page for the old Ring Magazine P4P rankings lists Riddick Bowe as #6 both the year he won the title against Holyfield(1992) and the year before in 91. I knew Bowe was a very very highly touted prospect during his come-up, but damn if that’s not a typo and he was rated #6 P4P before he even won the title then that’s really a sign of a special fighter(which he was in his prime).

Before the Holyfield win technically he didn't deserve to enter the list, but talent-wise he was a p4p fighter, what he proved with dethroning Evander.

[JohnP2]

Thanks for everyone’s responses. It appears the overidding sentiment is “YES” HW’s should be included.
I do find it interesting that Usyk—as an example—is ranked over Fury, but those same experts know damn well Fury would beat Usyk.

[joshj909]

Thanks for everyone’s responses. It appears the overidding sentiment is “YES” HW’s should be included.
I do find it interesting that Usyk—as an example—is ranked over Fury, but those same experts know damn well Fury would beat Usyk.

Usyk is pound for pound the undisputed cruiserweight champ going beyond his natural weightclass because he conquered it. Most have Canelo over Bivol in their p4p lists for the same reason.

For me heavyweights can belong in p4p discussions but usually would not due to relying too much on their size or power over their skill and technique.

[Verdi]

Thanks for everyone’s responses. It appears the overidding sentiment is “YES” HW’s should be included.
I do find it interesting that Usyk—as an example—is ranked over Fury, but those same experts know damn well Fury would beat Usyk.

They don't know damn well though. Although I'd put fury as a slight favourite, it certainly wouldn't be an upset if Usyk won.