who ranks higher at cruiser: usyk or toney?

[margaret thatcher]

usyk

undisputed ibf, wbc, wba, wbo champ
lineal champ
7-0 in major title fights
3-0 vs reigning champs
2-0 vs unified champs
notable wins: gassiev, briedis, huck, glowacki, bellew, hunter, mchunu

toney
ibf champ
1-0 in major title fights
1-0 vs reigning champs
0-0 vs unified champs
notable wins: jirov

[DrDuke]

It's clear as a sunny day, Usyk legacy is waaaay more superior.

[oogiebe]

An easy one. Usyk. No brainer.

[Ezzard]

No reason to put this up.

Toney was a great without ever really cementing his legacy in a single division. Usyk might be the greatest CW ever. He's 1 or 2.

[margaret thatcher]

i guess not everyone agrees, i know alpy rates toney's cruiser career higher...

simple question then

whose cruiser career ranks higher, usyk's or toney?

straight up answer bruh

I rank Toney a little higher. Don't know how much clearer I can be.

[gilgamesh]

If that's not the ultimate proof that Alp somehow just has an axe to grind against this entire era of Boxers I don't know what is.

By any logical argument ranking Toney over Usyk just makes no kinda sense.

Toney is one of my Top 5 all time favorite boxers to watch, and I can't even imagine forming an argument that he's better than Usyk as a Cruiserweight as a hypothetical example of what one might sound like. Usyk is leaps and bounds ahead of Toney as a Cruiserweight.

Wait a minute. Usyk is Ukrainian and The Klitschko's are Ukrainian...is it possible to be a Bigot towards Ukrainians? Is Alp Russian?

[HomicideHenry]

James Toney is one of the all-time great pound for pound boxers because he had great success in multiple weight classes, and I will always maintain that out of the trio of himself and Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins that Toney had overall better skills.

It would have been interesting to have seen him stick around at cruiserweight but it was clear that his agenda was to try to win the world heavyweight title, but the fact that he tested positive for steroids after defeating John Ruiz kind of puts an asterisk against everything that he accomplished once he was in the higher weight classes.

Could it be that he was on the gas when he took the title off of Vasily Jirov? I believe it's possible. Especially when you figure he was one of the very few men to ever stop Evander Holyfield when James Toney never did have power in the higher weights. Much as I like him I have to wonder how much of his career was tainted with performance enhancing drugs even if he never was the body beautiful type.

And in a way he did get his comeuppance when he got his ass beat when he jumped ship for a quick payday in the world of MMA when Randy Couture made him look completely helpless.

That being said I don't know how anyone could ever argue he was one of the great cruiserweights of all time unless you're wanting to claim that Jirov was some tremendous all time great fighter (ridiculous) or you're arguing that he had the potentiality to have been a great cruiserweight.

In that latter case I'm reminded of a thread I made years ago arguing that Jake LaMotta was the greatest super middleweight of all time because had the weight class existed he would have been completely dominant because the bulk of his matches were at the old light heavyweight division where the weight limit was 161-175.

But for my two cents James Toney did not stick around long enough at 176-195, the old cruiserweight limit, to really warrant an argument that he was truly at his best as a fighter in that particular weight division.

[oogiebe]

If that's not the ultimate proof that Alp somehow just has an axe to grind against this entire era of Boxers I don't know what is.

By any logical argument ranking Toney over Usyk just makes no kinda sense.

Toney is one of my Top 5 all time favorite boxers to watch, and I can't even imagine forming an argument that he's better than Usyk as a Cruiserweight as a hypothetical example of what one might sound like. Usyk is leaps and bounds ahead of Toney as a Cruiserweight.

Wait a minute. Usyk is Ukrainian and The Klitschko's are Ukrainian...is it possible to be a Bigot towards Ukrainians? Is Alp Russian?

Nailed it! Alpy is a racist.

[gilgamesh]

James Toney is one of the all-time great pound for pound boxers because he had great success in multiple weight classes, and I will always maintain that out of the trio of himself and Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins that Toney had overall better skills.

It would have been interesting to have seen him stick around at cruiserweight but it was clear that his agenda was to try to win the world heavyweight title, but the fact that he tested positive for steroids after defeating John Ruiz kind of puts an asterisk against everything that he accomplished once he was in the higher weight classes.

Could it be that he was on the gas when he took the title off of Vasily Jirov? I believe it's possible. Especially when you figure he was one of the very few men to ever stop Evander Holyfield when James Toney never did have power in the higher weights. Much as I like him I have to wonder how much of his career was tainted with performance enhancing drugs even if he never was the body beautiful type.

And in a way he did get his comeuppance when he got his ass beat when he jumped ship for a quick payday in the world of MMA when Randy Couture made him look completely helpless.

That being said I don't know how anyone could ever argue he was one of the great cruiserweights of all time unless you're wanting to claim that Jirov was some tremendous all time great fighter (ridiculous) or you're arguing that he had the potentiality to have been a great cruiserweight.

In that latter case I'm reminded of a thread I made years ago arguing that Jake LaMotta was the greatest super middleweight of all time because had the weight class existed he would have been completely dominant because the bulk of his matches were at the old light heavyweight division where the weight limit was 161-175.

But for my two cents James Toney did not stick around long enough at 176-195, the old cruiserweight limit, to really warrant an argument that he was truly at his best as a fighter in that particular weight division.

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit IMO, and it's a shame his Heavyweight title reign isn't recognized

That's how big a fan of Toney I am. I legitimately hold that opinion...and Usyk still is the better Cruiserweight

[DrDuke]

James Toney is one of the all-time great pound for pound boxers because he had great success in multiple weight classes, and I will always maintain that out of the trio of himself and Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins that Toney had overall better skills.

It would have been interesting to have seen him stick around at cruiserweight but it was clear that his agenda was to try to win the world heavyweight title, but the fact that he tested positive for steroids after defeating John Ruiz kind of puts an asterisk against everything that he accomplished once he was in the higher weight classes.

Could it be that he was on the gas when he took the title off of Vasily Jirov? I believe it's possible. Especially when you figure he was one of the very few men to ever stop Evander Holyfield when James Toney never did have power in the higher weights. Much as I like him I have to wonder how much of his career was tainted with performance enhancing drugs even if he never was the body beautiful type.

And in a way he did get his comeuppance when he got his ass beat when he jumped ship for a quick payday in the world of MMA when Randy Couture made him look completely helpless.

That being said I don't know how anyone could ever argue he was one of the great cruiserweights of all time unless you're wanting to claim that Jirov was some tremendous all time great fighter (ridiculous) or you're arguing that he had the potentiality to have been a great cruiserweight.

In that latter case I'm reminded of a thread I made years ago arguing that Jake LaMotta was the greatest super middleweight of all time because had the weight class existed he would have been completely dominant because the bulk of his matches were at the old light heavyweight division where the weight limit was 161-175.

But for my two cents James Toney did not stick around long enough at 176-195, the old cruiserweight limit, to really warrant an argument that he was truly at his best as a fighter in that particular weight division.

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit IMO, and it's a shame his Heavyweight title reign isn't recognized

That's how big a fan of Toney I am. I legitimately hold that opinion...and Usyk still is the better Cruiserweight

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit. All of them are on PEDs and they are caught often because of the sport politics. Toney won Ruiz, who was paraziting on the WBA along with Don King. There was no place for Toney there.

Still, Usyk has a superior legacy at HW too. Winning prime Joshua and still credible Chisora gotta be a bigger deal than winning shot Holyfield and the sh1thouse Ruiz.

[gilgamesh]

James Toney is one of the all-time great pound for pound boxers because he had great success in multiple weight classes, and I will always maintain that out of the trio of himself and Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins that Toney had overall better skills.

It would have been interesting to have seen him stick around at cruiserweight but it was clear that his agenda was to try to win the world heavyweight title, but the fact that he tested positive for steroids after defeating John Ruiz kind of puts an asterisk against everything that he accomplished once he was in the higher weight classes.

Could it be that he was on the gas when he took the title off of Vasily Jirov? I believe it's possible. Especially when you figure he was one of the very few men to ever stop Evander Holyfield when James Toney never did have power in the higher weights. Much as I like him I have to wonder how much of his career was tainted with performance enhancing drugs even if he never was the body beautiful type.

And in a way he did get his comeuppance when he got his ass beat when he jumped ship for a quick payday in the world of MMA when Randy Couture made him look completely helpless.

That being said I don't know how anyone could ever argue he was one of the great cruiserweights of all time unless you're wanting to claim that Jirov was some tremendous all time great fighter (ridiculous) or you're arguing that he had the potentiality to have been a great cruiserweight.

In that latter case I'm reminded of a thread I made years ago arguing that Jake LaMotta was the greatest super middleweight of all time because had the weight class existed he would have been completely dominant because the bulk of his matches were at the old light heavyweight division where the weight limit was 161-175.

But for my two cents James Toney did not stick around long enough at 176-195, the old cruiserweight limit, to really warrant an argument that he was truly at his best as a fighter in that particular weight division.

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit IMO, and it's a shame his Heavyweight title reign isn't recognized

That's how big a fan of Toney I am. I legitimately hold that opinion...and Usyk still is the better Cruiserweight

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit. All of them are on PEDs and they are caught often because of the sport politics. Toney won Ruiz, who was paraziting on the WBA along with Don King. There was no place for Toney there.

Still, Usyk has a superior legacy at HW too. Winning prime Joshua and still credible Chisora gotta be a bigger deal than winning shot Holyfield and the sh1thouse Ruiz.

I gotta agree.

Although I think it's absolutely indisputable that Toney is the Superior Middleweight, Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

James Toney is one of the all-time great pound for pound boxers because he had great success in multiple weight classes, and I will always maintain that out of the trio of himself and Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins that Toney had overall better skills.

It would have been interesting to have seen him stick around at cruiserweight but it was clear that his agenda was to try to win the world heavyweight title, but the fact that he tested positive for steroids after defeating John Ruiz kind of puts an asterisk against everything that he accomplished once he was in the higher weight classes.

Could it be that he was on the gas when he took the title off of Vasily Jirov? I believe it's possible. Especially when you figure he was one of the very few men to ever stop Evander Holyfield when James Toney never did have power in the higher weights. Much as I like him I have to wonder how much of his career was tainted with performance enhancing drugs even if he never was the body beautiful type.

And in a way he did get his comeuppance when he got his ass beat when he jumped ship for a quick payday in the world of MMA when Randy Couture made him look completely helpless.

That being said I don't know how anyone could ever argue he was one of the great cruiserweights of all time unless you're wanting to claim that Jirov was some tremendous all time great fighter (ridiculous) or you're arguing that he had the potentiality to have been a great cruiserweight.

In that latter case I'm reminded of a thread I made years ago arguing that Jake LaMotta was the greatest super middleweight of all time because had the weight class existed he would have been completely dominant because the bulk of his matches were at the old light heavyweight division where the weight limit was 161-175.

But for my two cents James Toney did not stick around long enough at 176-195, the old cruiserweight limit, to really warrant an argument that he was truly at his best as a fighter in that particular weight division.

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit IMO, and it's a shame his Heavyweight title reign isn't recognized

That's how big a fan of Toney I am. I legitimately hold that opinion...and Usyk still is the better Cruiserweight

Roy was busted at least once and we all know Hopkins was later in his career lets not kid ourselves.

[franciscojavier]

James Toney is one of the all-time great pound for pound boxers because he had great success in multiple weight classes, and I will always maintain that out of the trio of himself and Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins that Toney had overall better skills.

It would have been interesting to have seen him stick around at cruiserweight but it was clear that his agenda was to try to win the world heavyweight title, but the fact that he tested positive for steroids after defeating John Ruiz kind of puts an asterisk against everything that he accomplished once he was in the higher weight classes.

Could it be that he was on the gas when he took the title off of Vasily Jirov? I believe it's possible. Especially when you figure he was one of the very few men to ever stop Evander Holyfield when James Toney never did have power in the higher weights. Much as I like him I have to wonder how much of his career was tainted with performance enhancing drugs even if he never was the body beautiful type.

And in a way he did get his comeuppance when he got his ass beat when he jumped ship for a quick payday in the world of MMA when Randy Couture made him look completely helpless.

That being said I don't know how anyone could ever argue he was one of the great cruiserweights of all time unless you're wanting to claim that Jirov was some tremendous all time great fighter (ridiculous) or you're arguing that he had the potentiality to have been a great cruiserweight.

In that latter case I'm reminded of a thread I made years ago arguing that Jake LaMotta was the greatest super middleweight of all time because had the weight class existed he would have been completely dominant because the bulk of his matches were at the old light heavyweight division where the weight limit was 161-175.

But for my two cents James Toney did not stick around long enough at 176-195, the old cruiserweight limit, to really warrant an argument that he was truly at his best as a fighter in that particular weight division.

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit IMO, and it's a shame his Heavyweight title reign isn't recognized

That's how big a fan of Toney I am. I legitimately hold that opinion...and Usyk still is the better Cruiserweight

Toney's win over Ruiz is legit. All of them are on PEDs and they are caught often because of the sport politics. Toney won Ruiz, who was paraziting on the WBA along with Don King. There was no place for Toney there.

Still, Usyk has a superior legacy at HW too. Winning prime Joshua and still credible Chisora gotta be a bigger deal than winning shot Holyfield and the sh1thouse Ruiz.

Toney actually had a pretty decent run at Heavyweight. Knocks out Holyfield(an older Holyfield but still a huge deal at the time), beats Ruiz even worse than Jones did, and then drew with Rahman and lost a controversial split decision to a prime Sam Peter. I probably would’ve favored that version of Toney to knock out a guy like Maskaev, it’s a shame that due to the PED stuff and a draw that he technically isn’t listed as a former heavyweight champ. I will definitely say Usyk’s two wins over AJ are better than any of Toney’s individual wins at heavyweight, plus he has the win over a game Chisora. Will be interesting to see where Usyk goes from here, especially the Fury fight.

[DrDuke]

Toney actually had a pretty decent run at Heavyweight. Knocks out Holyfield(an older Holyfield but still a huge deal at the time), beats Ruiz even worse than Jones did, and then drew with Rahman and lost a controversial split decision to a prime Sam Peter. I probably would’ve favored that version of Toney to knock out a guy like Maskaev, it’s a shame that due to the PED stuff and a draw that he technically isn’t listed as a former heavyweight champ. I will definitely say Usyk’s two wins over AJ are better than any of Toney’s individual wins at heavyweight, plus he has the win over a game Chisora. Will be interesting to see where Usyk goes from here, especially the Fury fight.

Not a bad run at all, however, I'd say, that Rahman edged the fight, while the controversy vs Peter was blown up.

[margaret thatcher]

interestingly one sided opinion, so no one agrees beating jirov + a bunch of C level punch bags > usyk's undisputed cruiser run?

[DrDuke]

interestingly one sided opinion, so no one agrees beating jirov + a bunch of C level punch bags > usyk's undisputed cruiser run?

One vote for Toney. I wonder who's that.

[gilgamesh]

Toney actually had a pretty decent run at Heavyweight. Knocks out Holyfield(an older Holyfield but still a huge deal at the time), beats Ruiz even worse than Jones did, and then drew with Rahman and lost a controversial split decision to a prime Sam Peter. I probably would’ve favored that version of Toney to knock out a guy like Maskaev, it’s a shame that due to the PED stuff and a draw that he technically isn’t listed as a former heavyweight champ. I will definitely say Usyk’s two wins over AJ are better than any of Toney’s individual wins at heavyweight, plus he has the win over a game Chisora. Will be interesting to see where Usyk goes from here, especially the Fury fight.

Not a bad run at all, however, I'd say, that Rahman edged the fight, while the controversy vs Peter was blown up.

I scored the Rahman-Toney draw for Rahman as well. I did think Toney won the 1st Peter fight, but it was very, very close so I had no issue with the decision.

Peter dominated the rematch.

The worst I ever saw Toney robbed was in the 2nd Montell Griffin fight. He won that fight clear as day, and got jobbed. He won the 1st one too IMO.

So Griffin has 2 "wins" over Toney, and both are bullsh*t.

[DrDuke]

The worst I ever saw Toney robbed was in the 2nd Montell Griffin fight. He won that fight clear as day, and got jobbed. He won the 1st one too IMO.

So Griffin has 2 "wins" over Toney, and both are bullsh*t.

I agree, I had both those bouts for Toney.

Griffin's record is legendary on paper with the fluke wins over Toney and Jones, yet on reality the guy wasn't that stellar.

[oogiebe]

interestingly one sided opinion, so no one agrees beating jirov + a bunch of C level punch bags > usyk's undisputed cruiser run?

One vote for Toney. I wonder who's that.

LOL! I'm sure he still thinks he's right. We all just don't get it.

[margaret thatcher]

hmm, thought toney would get more supports, maybe it';s just extremist fanatics like alpy on his side

simple question then

whose cruiser career ranks higher, usyk's or toney?

straight up answer bruh

I rank Toney a little higher. Don't know how much clearer I can be.

[Seamus]

I had Terry McGroom, certainly not a top 100 Cruiser of all time, beating Toney by 2 pts back in 2000. One of the judges wasn't too far off calling it a draw.

[DrDuke]

Here's the second vote for Toney. Alpy made a fake account?

[margaret thatcher]

well, he is ambling alp II lol

simple question then

whose cruiser career ranks higher, usyk's or toney?

straight up answer bruh

I rank Toney a little higher. Don't know how much clearer I can be.

what the actual f@ck man

'

[tiny_acres]

Usyk is arguably the number 1 cruiserweight of all time. At worst he is Second.
Toney does not crack my top 15 in Cruisers

[margaret thatcher]

22-2, was just checking the numbers on this.... only alp and maybe jt? im surprised there arent more votes for james '10 round fighters' toney

after all, compare the accomplishments

undisputed ibf, wbc, wba, wbo champ
lineal champ
7-0 in major title fights
3-0 vs reigning champs
2-0 vs unified champs
notable wins: gassiev, briedis, huck, glowacki, bellew, hunter, mchunu

toney
ibf champ
1-0 in major title fights
1-0 vs reigning champs
0-0 vs unified champs
notable wins: jirov

wonder if our 2 bois rate toney higher at hw too

whose cruiser career ranks higher, usyk's or toney?

I rank Toney a little higher. Don't know how much clearer I can be.