Chuck Wepner vs Richard Dunn (1976)

[Joson]

I say Dunn wins a decision. His southpaw advantage, long-range attacking style, and steady right-jab carry the day.

People here are probably thinking Dunn's poor durability would doom him to defeat. Against higher-rated contenders, of course, it would. But not against Wepner, who lacked power and was slow of hand and foot. Note that Dunn's height, reach, and weight were equal to Chuck's.

Watch Dunn's 1977 loss to brutal-punching Kallie Knoetze. Before getting KO'd in the fifth, Dunn's scrappy, southpaw tactics cause Knoetze trouble. I envision Dunn executing the same fight against Wepner, but going the distance and getting the nod.

Interesting is that Dunn won a decision over Roy Wiliams in 1973. Happened in England. I don't know if the fight was fixed, but if not, that says a lot about Dunn, because Williams was dangerous.

[Jaguar]

I agree. Dunn was an awkward, lanky southpaw and he'd probably out point you if you couldn't knock him out.

Wepner wasn't a big puncher so Dunn may well decision him.

[scorpio83]

Dunn's southpaw style would overwhelm Wepner behind his southpaw jabs and right-left combos to take a decision.

[HomicideHenry]

Dunn is hard to gauge. I don't think Wepner's size would be too problematic considering Dunn did defeat 6'7" Cliff Field who was the best of the white collar circuit bunch, but.... awkward, strong, tough, durable as Wepner was.... I could see Dunn falling into a trap where he unloaded early, and zapped his strength, and Chuck would start clubbing him down.

Larry Holmes said Chuck had an underrated "crooked jab," where the jab was coming at you from a slightly different angle than you would expect. Not that that means much because sooner or later people figure people out, but I think Wepner's greatest strength was being kinda backwards in most things he did.

It's possible Dunn wins a decision, but... I can't help but think that the over the hill Ali knocked Dunn down multiple times... It took the still good Ali fifteen rounds to drop Chuck once in the final round with seconds to go.

I don't think it's controversial to say that Chuck Wepner was above Dunn, at least by a hairs width or two. It would have been ugly, but I'll go with Wepner by decision or late TKO like he did Terry Hinke.

[Jaguar]

Dunn is hard to gauge. I don't think Wepner's size would be too problematic considering Dunn did defeat 6'7" Cliff Field who was the best of the white collar circuit bunch, but.... awkward, strong, tough, durable as Wepner was.... I could see Dunn falling into a trap where he unloaded early, and zapped his strength, and Chuck would start clubbing him down.

Larry Holmes said Chuck had an underrated "crooked jab," where the jab was coming at you from a slightly different angle than you would expect. Not that that means much because sooner or later people figure people out, but I think Wepner's greatest strength was being kinda backwards in most things he did.

It's possible Dunn wins a decision, but... I can't help but think that the over the hill Ali knocked Dunn down multiple times... It took the still good Ali fifteen rounds to drop Chuck once in the final round with seconds to go.

I don't think it's controversial to say that Chuck Wepner was above Dunn, at least by a hairs width or two. It would have been ugly, but I'll go with Wepner by decision or late TKO like he did Terry Hinke.

I don't think Cliff Fields would have been anywhere near 6'7". Where have you got that from?

[HomicideHenry]

Dunn is hard to gauge. I don't think Wepner's size would be too problematic considering Dunn did defeat 6'7" Cliff Field who was the best of the white collar circuit bunch, but.... awkward, strong, tough, durable as Wepner was.... I could see Dunn falling into a trap where he unloaded early, and zapped his strength, and Chuck would start clubbing him down.

Larry Holmes said Chuck had an underrated "crooked jab," where the jab was coming at you from a slightly different angle than you would expect. Not that that means much because sooner or later people figure people out, but I think Wepner's greatest strength was being kinda backwards in most things he did.

It's possible Dunn wins a decision, but... I can't help but think that the over the hill Ali knocked Dunn down multiple times... It took the still good Ali fifteen rounds to drop Chuck once in the final round with seconds to go.

I don't think it's controversial to say that Chuck Wepner was above Dunn, at least by a hairs width or two. It would have been ugly, but I'll go with Wepner by decision or late TKO like he did Terry Hinke.

I don't think Cliff Fields would have been anywhere near 6'7". Where have you got that from?

Newspaper articles.



https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest ... e-29712439

Lenny McLean is said to be 6'3" and if that is accurate then Cliff was definitely over 6'5" based on photos of them fighting each other. Roy Shaw was like 5'10"-5'11" roughly.



Here he's fighting former middleweight and light heavyweight Ron Redrup and is clearly a full head taller than him. I'm assuming Redrup was just under six foot.

[Jaguar]

I'd be surprised if Field was that tall. Joe Bugner, at 6'4", was known as the biggest professional boxer in Britain when Cliff Field was active. Then it was Neil Malpass at 6'5".

I don't think McLean was 6'3" either and Roy Shaw was probably shorter than that too. He was only a welterweight when he was a pro (fought under the name of Roy West).

[The Docker]

Shaw was barely 5'8".

There is a clip or photo, cant remember now of McLean versus Redrup and he too is a full head taller.

[HomicideHenry]

I will upload some pictures later. But these size claims I believe to be accurate or near accurate. Shaw was not much shorter than Ron Stander, and Stander despite his 5'11" listing on BoxRec was actually slightly taller than Joe Frazier.



Shaw and Stander. I think Stander might've been 5'11.5"-6'0" and if that's the case I think Shaw was roughly 5'10", because Stander was slightly taller than Frazier.



There was a picture of Lenny with Shaw years later, side side, but it's not really a good picture because both men were leaning or stooping in the picture making them look similar in height, when in the ring it was clear McLean was half a head taller than Shaw.



As for Cliff Field it's difficult to assess because photos of him vs McLean are hard to find, and a lot of the unlicensed boxers heights aren't really known. But I would say if he wasn't 6'7" he was certainly 6'5".

He fought like Buddy Baer, not really utilizing his size, and kind of chin down and slope shouldered looking shorter than he was. Dunn said he was relatively easy to outbox but that Field did hit really hard.

[Joson]

I don't think Wepner's size would be too problematic considering Dunn did defeat 6'7" Cliff Field

Dunn also KO'd 6'7" Berndt August.

[Jaguar]

I will upload some pictures later. But these size claims I believe to be accurate or near accurate. Shaw was not much shorter than Ron Stander, and Stander despite his 5'11" listing on BoxRec was actually slightly taller than Joe Frazier.



Shaw and Stander. I think Stander might've been 5'11.5"-6'0" and if that's the case I think Shaw was roughly 5'10", because Stander was slightly taller than Frazier.



There was a picture of Lenny with Shaw years later, side side, but it's not really a good picture because both men were leaning or stooping in the picture making them look similar in height, when in the ring it was clear McLean was half a head taller than Shaw.



As for Cliff Field it's difficult to assess because photos of him vs McLean are hard to find, and a lot of the unlicensed boxers heights aren't really known. But I would say if he wasn't 6'7" he was certainly 6'5".

He fought like Buddy Baer, not really utilizing his size, and kind of chin down and slope shouldered looking shorter than he was. Dunn said he was relatively easy to outbox but that Field did hit really hard.

Roy Shaw looks taller than he normally appears on those photos but really it's difficult to judge as you can't see how they're stood, if they're wearing shoes, or whether one or the other of them is crouching (although McLean does look a bit hunched there). I think Lenny McLean was more like 6'1" or 6'2" in any case.

Not that any of it matters, McLean wasn't much of a boxer anyway.

[HomicideHenry]

Nah, McLean was just the best of the bouncer types. I did have to laugh my ass off yesterday watching that documentary THE GUVNOR on Tubi yesterday. The narrator made the remark that "on the cobbles" McLean could've beaten Klitschko and Mike Tyson. There are some really gullible people out there.

Probably the two best guys who ever fought on the white collar circuit (imho) were Johnny Whaldron and Nosher Powell. Whaldron knocked out Julius Francis in one round a few months prior to Francis winning the British championship. Powell, back in the 1950s, was a top British heavyweight but dabbled in the unlicensed circuit into the 1960s or early 1970s. He later became a familiar face in many TV shows and movies.

[Ambling Alp II]

Would leans towards Wepner, not that he was that good, but Dunn was terrible.