Bruno

[si7dog7]

Frank’s name keeps coming up in the HW chat. Esp with AJ.
I’m not waxing lyrical on this after last Saturday as I’ve always thought this.
Eras are so so different.
Bruno lost to Bonecrusher ok last round after dominating.
Terrible Tim. Who really was awesome on his day. Frank did so well. But ring savvy of Witherspoon won the day.
Tyson, Tyson, Lewis.
He beat a few good ‘uns too.
I’m not putting Frank above AJ as the latter won an Olympic gold but resume wise ? Nah
Fury’s is even worse!!!!
Frank needs a fair rub. And people on here put AJ, Wilder and Fury as top 5 ATG. Frank don’t make top 50. So how do these guys?
Asking for a friend

[orbtastic]

There was a point in time, not that long ago that a lot of people wouldn't have Lewis in a top 20 ATG. I remember some American friend of my mate's saying he was top ten, this was absurd to me but now, I'm not so sure.

Someone said Joshua could arguably be top 20 ATG and it made me snigger to be honest but I actually looked at Boxrec's rankings (I KNOW THEY ARE AUTOMATED) but whilst I personally wouldn't have him anywhere near a top 30 it becomes increasingly harder to keep him out of a top 45.

I'd have to rate Joshua above Bruno, not that I particularly care about either but I'm definitely old enough to remember Jumbo cummings almost making the wheels come off Midweek on the BBC.

[WestEndRiot]

Joshua has beaten a single future hall of famer(Wlad), and it could be argued he was massively on the slide. Lost to Fury previously, and never fought after AJ to confirm it.

Lost to the only other truly world class boxer he faced, twice.

And if he finished now, history would see that he avoided his 2 greatest threats in his prime years (Wilder and Fury). The discussion over why those fights never happened is for another day.

So for me, no, not even close to top 20-30 all time

[MasterG]

Frank Bruno was in my era of boxing. Big Frank was around when we had a multitude of world stars at all weight classes. You also have to remember that the 80s and 90s generation of boxer outweighs what we have in this era.

Bruno took was it 5 rounds against a prime Mike Tyson, when Spinks only lasted 90 seconds.

I don't think Bruno would have beaten Larry Holmes in the 80s when Tyson fought him either.

You need to judge Bruno on his merits from that era. Bruno gave Lennox a decent go until ran out of steam and got caught. Lennox Lewis would certainly be in the top 10-15 heavyweights of all time. I think Frank had the wrong body shape for a heavyweight and was quite stiff with limited boxing ability, but had a decent punch. Compare 2 complete different boxers on the spectrum, Frank Bruno and Andy Ruiz. I would say Ruiz taking his size and shape into account, he is a faster boxer than Bruno and that's because all his muscles a fatty and relaxed, while Bruno is primed like a tightly sprung guitar.

Would Frank have beaten Andy Ruiz? I don't think so because of the body structure.

I think we have to give credit where credit is due, back in Bruno's era he was a decent heavyweight. I don't see a huge skill difference in him and AJ, is AJ better than Bruno? I don't think so, they are very similar boxers with similar style. I would say AJ is not as tight as Frank but put them in the ring and imo it's a 50/50 match up. I would say chin resistance, Bruno was better.

Would AJ have done better than the Bruno in Vegas against Tyson? Absolutely not.

[mickey1975]

Frank Bruno was in my era of boxing. Big Frank was around when we had a multitude of world stars at all weight classes. You also have to remember that the 80s and 90s generation of boxer outweighs what we have in this era.

Bruno took was it 5 rounds against a prime Mike Tyson, when Spinks only lasted 90 seconds.

I don't think Bruno would have beaten Larry Holmes in the 80s when Tyson fought him either.

You need to judge Bruno on his merits from that era. Bruno gave Lennox a decent go until ran out of steam and got caught. Lennox Lewis would certainly be in the top 10-15 heavyweights of all time. I think Frank had the wrong body shape for a heavyweight and was quite stiff with limited boxing ability, but had a decent punch. Compare 2 complete different boxers on the spectrum, Frank Bruno and Andy Ruiz. I would say Ruiz taking his size and shape into account, he is a faster boxer than Bruno and that's because all his muscles a fatty and relaxed, while Bruno is primed like a tightly sprung guitar.

Would Frank have beaten Andy Ruiz? I don't think so because of the body structure.

I think we have to give credit where credit is due, back in Bruno's era he was a decent heavyweight. I don't see a huge skill difference in him and AJ, is AJ better than Bruno? I don't think so, they are very similar boxers with similar style. I would say AJ is not as tight as Frank but put them in the ring and imo it's a 50/50 match up. I would say chin resistance, Bruno was better.

Would AJ have done better than the Bruno in Vegas against Tyson? Absolutely not.

I haven't checked the facts but I think a Word champion was a lot more rare in those days.

[Fray Bentos]

Like Mimmy, Bruno was my era of boxing and to be honest in retrospect, he was probably the luckiest boxer in British boxing history,

Was the home fighter apart from twice in his career when he had to fight Tyson, was carefully matched in 80/20 fights for the most part, was a national hero - like a proper household name - became rich, seriously rich and held onto his wealth - the reality is compared to most boxers of all classes, he has had a smooth ride to the top.

A good boxer, powerful, excellent jab wouldn't be a 'big' heavyweight by todays standards though back then he was, he usually came under 16 stone for the majority of his fights until he fought Tyson again in his last fight where he came in a career highest 17 stone (he might have come in something like that for Pierre Coetzer) he wasn't a 12 round fighter, simple as that, he would flag after eight rounds and blow out which is something Joshua nor Dubois ever have problems with or not to the extent Bruno had with it which we can now put down to Bruno being unable to control the nervous energy and 'relax' in the ring which Joshua and Dubois can do better, Bruno was accused of being too 'musclebound' by the old timers which wasn't really true - you see units like Joshua and Dubois do the championship rounds and they do it well.

Bruno had everything going for him in his career, brilliant management, a handpicked pathway to the top but it seems Bruno seems bitter today and he has no right to be - he is still whinging about Lennox Lewis calling him an 'Uncle Tom' despite Bruno calling him out for not being 'truly British' they were both saying nasty things to each other, not just Lewis hitting low and connecting, Bruno did his fair share too. He had his hometown refs, letting him rabbit punch and clinch away - I was a fan of his back in the day but now as a middle aged man see why the old un's like my dad didn't rate him.

[NazNaci1]

I'd place Bruno above AJ and Fury, in a stylistical sense. I'd fancy him to beat them both.

AJ would be a more dangerous prospect purely based on being bigger and also powerful. Not sure he takes the heat as well as Frank, considering Frank took punches from massive punchers such as Tyson, Smith and Lewis. Witherspoon could also crack. Not sure AJ or Fury can take that.

Fury does not have the power or strength to hold Bruno at range or to tie him up. Ngannou was easily able to, physically, hold Fury off and though he is bigger that Bruno, Bruno also had some mad physical strength.

Bruno's powerful jab, yes slow, would rock Fury and he definitely had the power to hurt him. I think Bruno would just walk up and through him, unless he gassed later on (a possibility).

Bruno's era was much deeper that this current one, imo. You had Wlad and now Uysk. When I think about it, picking up Wlad and Uysk and dropping them into that era (late 80's and 90s), alongside the top tier guys then, I just think they get blown out of the water.

When you consider who was around, Holyfield, Foreman, Tyson, Tua, Lewis, Bowe, Ruddock, Witherspoon, Smith, Tucker, Douglas, Dokes etc....Bruno was a full level below them but Wlad and Usyk apart, would fancy him against much of what is came after and is about today such as Wilder, AJ, Fury, Parker, Dubois, Joyce, Zhiang, Audley, Chisora, Haye etc.

Just my opinion and we will never know.

[stujones]

Bruno's wins were so handpicked it is quite challenging to gage him really. Facing reality - he won his world title against a "sparring partner" with an amazing chin, limited skills and was clearly not in a great mental state. I think people forget that McCall very nearly lost his title to a 44 year old Holmes - Larry won more rounds in his title effort against McCall than Foreman did vs Moorer. So his best wins were either way over the hill fighters or never was - and then his world title losses were against ATG fighters and a very underrated fighter in Witherspoon. (certainly Tyson was an all time great offensively). Many of Joshua's world title wins were against fighters that were probably as poor as Bruno's better victims (Martin, Breazele, Molina). However, Joshua's better wins (Parker, Povetkin, aging Klitchscko), were better than Bruno's wins but definitely below Bruno's world title losses.

In this era and the post Bruno era - Bruno would have definitely been some kind of belt holder. The fact that we now recognise the WBO in the Heavyweight division gives a bit more options. Bruno would have fancied his chances against the likes of Bent, Hide, Morrison, Briggs, Liakhovich, Ibragmiov etc - let alone if we consider Charr, Bryan and Dubios (particularly his wba reign) as a belt holder.

I think Carlos' post is spot on, where I am not sure I fully am on board is whether Joshua (especially) does 12 rounds easy. Bruno showed he could do 10/12 rounds okay when he was dictating the pace. Carl Williams fight for example. I think he had some mental issue with the last round, perhaps from the Smith fight, which is why he went from a decent 11th round to clinging on like mad in the 12th vs McCall - Joshua also at times though looks like a 7 round fighter, Dubois also conked out with that additional nervous energy vs Usyk and Joyce.

I would say Joshua vs Bruno is an incredibly tough fight to call - which is you think of the salaries the two earned in the career and their overall standing (Joshua was favourite to join a very illustrious list as a 3 time champ) it is hard to fathom. In terms of ATG Heavyweight - I don't think either would make the top 30, neither would Wilder.

[JamesPhilips]

I'd place Bruno above AJ and Fury, in a stylistical sense. I'd fancy him to beat them both.

AJ would be a more dangerous prospect purely based on being bigger and also powerful. Not sure he takes the heat as well as Frank, considering Frank took punches from massive punchers such as Tyson, Smith and Lewis. Witherspoon could also crack. Not sure AJ or Fury can take that.

Fury does not have the power or strength to hold Bruno at range or to tie him up. Ngannou was easily able to, physically, hold Fury off and though he is bigger that Bruno, Bruno also had some mad physical strength.

Bruno's powerful jab, yes slow, would rock Fury and he definitely had the power to hurt him. I think Bruno would just walk up and through him, unless he gassed later on (a possibility).

Bruno's era was much deeper that this current one, imo. You had Wlad and now Uysk. When I think about it, picking up Wlad and Uysk and dropping them into that era (late 80's and 90s), alongside the top tier guys then, I just think they get blown out of the water.

When you consider who was around, Holyfield, Foreman, Tyson, Tua, Lewis, Bowe, Ruddock, Witherspoon, Smith, Tucker, Douglas, Dokes etc....Bruno was a full level below them but Wlad and Usyk apart, would fancy him against much of what is came after and is about today such as Wilder, AJ, Fury, Parker, Dubois, Joyce, Zhiang, Audley, Chisora, Haye etc.

Just my opinion and we will never know.

[MasterG]

Bruno had a good PR team as well. And luckily he had Harry Carpenter who was a British favourite too. Bruno was perceived to be squeaky clean and made loads of granny friends by doing panto.

I think it would be hard to find anyone around my age who would say 'Bruno was a wanker', he had that likeable factor similar to Eddie Edwards. Us British love an underdog, someone who persists but never gets to the summit. We tend to love losers more than winners which is strange, maybe this is because the working class man never seems to get to the summit either.

In my boxing memory bank, Bruno would come up on a few occasions. Bruno v Witherspoon, Bruno v Tyson (1), Bruno v Lewis and Bruno v McCall.

The 12th round of the McCall fight I didn't watch, I couldn't I went upstairs until the final bell. Like a lot of people, Frank Bruno was that underdog, a bit of a simpleton, again like Eddie Edwards that we all rooted for.

[mickey1975]

Bruno had a good PR team as well. And luckily he had Harry Carpenter who was a British favourite too. Bruno was perceived to be squeaky clean and made loads of granny friends by doing panto.

I think it would be hard to find anyone around my age who would say 'Bruno was a wanker', he had that likeable factor similar to Eddie Edwards. Us British love an underdog, someone who persists but never gets to the summit. We tend to love losers more than winners which is strange, maybe this is because the working class man never seems to get to the summit either.

In my boxing memory bank, Bruno would come up on a few occasions. Bruno v Witherspoon, Bruno v Tyson (1), Bruno v Lewis and Bruno v McCall.

The 12th round of the McCall fight I didn't watch, I couldn't I went upstairs until the final bell. Like a lot of people, Frank Bruno was that underdog, a bit of a simpleton, again like Eddie Edwards that we all rooted for.

I've met Frank a couple of times, once 'behind the scenes' and he wasn't friendly at all. Quite difficult if anything. I just put this down to his mental health.

[NazNaci1]

I'd place Bruno above AJ and Fury, in a stylistical sense. I'd fancy him to beat them both.

AJ would be a more dangerous prospect purely based on being bigger and also powerful. Not sure he takes the heat as well as Frank, considering Frank took punches from massive punchers such as Tyson, Smith and Lewis. Witherspoon could also crack. Not sure AJ or Fury can take that.

Fury does not have the power or strength to hold Bruno at range or to tie him up. Ngannou was easily able to, physically, hold Fury off and though he is bigger that Bruno, Bruno also had some mad physical strength.

Bruno's powerful jab, yes slow, would rock Fury and he definitely had the power to hurt him. I think Bruno would just walk up and through him, unless he gassed later on (a possibility).

Bruno's era was much deeper that this current one, imo. You had Wlad and now Uysk. When I think about it, picking up Wlad and Uysk and dropping them into that era (late 80's and 90s), alongside the top tier guys then, I just think they get blown out of the water.

When you consider who was around, Holyfield, Foreman, Tyson, Tua, Lewis, Bowe, Ruddock, Witherspoon, Smith, Tucker, Douglas, Dokes etc....Bruno was a full level below them but Wlad and Usyk apart, would fancy him against much of what is came after and is about today such as Wilder, AJ, Fury, Parker, Dubois, Joyce, Zhiang, Audley, Chisora, Haye etc.

Just my opinion and we will never know.

Fury fan and quite a young one, I presume

[Ricky]

Come on, AJ is rubbish, there's no way he should be anywhere near an ATG discussion, he would be so far out his depth vs a guy like Larry Holmes it's not even worth talking about him vs Lennox or Holyfield or so on. We don't need to, we can see hit his level vs Andy Ruiz Jr.

[emallini]

I love the older eras but look at the records of of those guys man. You can pick apart their resumes just like you can AJs. Joshua can probably get in top 30 all time at heavyweight.

[nobleart1978]

The thing about Big Frank was that you would often get him fighting somebody "who had gone the distance with Mike Dokes or Mike Weaver in his last fight", which sounds impressive, then Bruno would knock him out inside two minutes. Most of his opponents were poor who had long periods of inactivity. His management did him no favours really in a purist sense. Why did he never fight Berbick for the Commonwealth trinket ? Lawless would consider him too dangerous. The cartel were just ripping off the public. In hindsught.

[NazNaci1]

The thing about Big Frank was that you would often get him fighting somebody "who had gone the distance with Mike Dokes or Mike Weaver in his last fight", which sounds impressive, then Bruno would knock him out inside two minutes. Most of his opponents were poor who had long periods of inactivity. His management did him no favours really in a purist sense. Why did he never fight Berbick for the Commonwealth trinket ? Lawless would consider him too dangerous. The cartel were just ripping off the public. In hindsught.

Probably right. I also remember Fish Eyes using absurd levels of hype for Khan's fight with Salita, stating that Khan was in with a 'massive puncher', and being a boxing fan, knew Salida was anything but that and fragile. Hype? Yes? Ripping off the public, in my opinion.

Or Mickey Duff lauding up Johnny Bumphus ahead of his match with Honeyghan, despite getting stopped by Hatcher. Same thing.

Lawless also did similar with Gary Mason's career. Or Hatton fighting older, lighter opponents and listening to Fish Eyes drone on about how much of a test it was going to be, all the while, swerving streaking John Thaxton and Junior Witter. Hatton may have beaten them both, it's just dodging and taking punters and fans for mugs, that irks me with him. Still does it to this day/

So nothing really new here. Just the way it goes.

[NazNaci1]

The thing about Big Frank was that you would often get him fighting somebody "who had gone the distance with Mike Dokes or Mike Weaver in his last fight", which sounds impressive, then Bruno would knock him out inside two minutes. Most of his opponents were poor who had long periods of inactivity. His management did him no favours really in a purist sense. Why did he never fight Berbick for the Commonwealth trinket ? Lawless would consider him too dangerous. The cartel were just ripping off the public. In hindsught.

Probably right. I also remember Fish Eyes using absurd levels of hype for Khan's fight with Salita, stating that Khan was in with a 'massive puncher', and being a boxing fan, knew Salida was anything but that and fragile. Hype? Yes? Ripping off the public, in my opinion.

Or Mickey Duff lauding up Johnny Bumphus ahead of his match with Honeyghan, despite getting stopped by Hatcher. Same thing.

Lawless also did similar with Gary Mason's career. Or Hatton fighting older, lighter opponents and listening to Fish Eyes drone on about how much of a test it was going to be, all the while, swerving streaking John Thaxton and Junior Witter. Hatton may have beaten them both, it's just dodging and taking punters and fans for mugs, that irks me with him. Still does it to this day.

So nothing really new here. Just the way it goes.

[NazNaci1]

The thing about Big Frank was that you would often get him fighting somebody "who had gone the distance with Mike Dokes or Mike Weaver in his last fight", which sounds impressive, then Bruno would knock him out inside two minutes. Most of his opponents were poor who had long periods of inactivity. His management did him no favours really in a purist sense. Why did he never fight Berbick for the Commonwealth trinket ? Lawless would consider him too dangerous. The cartel were just ripping off the public. In hindsught.

Probably right. I also remember Fish Eyes using absurd levels of hype for Khan's fight with Salita, stating that Khan was in with a 'massive puncher', and being a boxing fan, knew Salida was anything but that and fragile. Hype? Yes? Ripping off the public, in my opinion.

Or Mickey Duff lauding up Johnny Bumphus ahead of his match with Honeyghan, despite getting stopped by Hatcher. Same thing.

Lawless also did similar with Gary Mason's career. Or Hatton fighting older, lighter opponents and listening to Fish Eyes drone on about how much of a test it was going to be, all the while, swerving streaking John Thaxton and Junior Witter. Hatton may have beaten them both, it's just dodging and taking punters and fans for mugs, that irks me with him. Still does it to this day.

So nothing really new here. Just the way it goes.

[si7dog7]

The thing about Big Frank was that you would often get him fighting somebody "who had gone the distance with Mike Dokes or Mike Weaver in his last fight", which sounds impressive, then Bruno would knock him out inside two minutes. Most of his opponents were poor who had long periods of inactivity. His management did him no favours really in a purist sense. Why did he never fight Berbick for the Commonwealth trinket ? Lawless would consider him too dangerous. The cartel were just ripping off the public. In hindsught.

Probably right. I also remember Fish Eyes using absurd levels of hype for Khan's fight with Salita, stating that Khan was in with a 'massive puncher', and being a boxing fan, knew Salida was anything but that and fragile. Hype? Yes? Ripping off the public, in my opinion.

Or Mickey Duff lauding up Johnny Bumphus ahead of his match with Honeyghan, despite getting stopped by Hatcher. Same thing.

Lawless also did similar with Gary Mason's career. Or Hatton fighting older, lighter opponents and listening to Fish Eyes drone on about how much of a test it was going to be, all the while, swerving streaking John Thaxton and Junior Witter. Hatton may have beaten them both, it's just dodging and taking punters and fans for mugs, that irks me with him. Still does it to this day/

So nothing really new here. Just the way it goes.

I must have missed Hatton v Witter?
I get your points though. Gary Mason would have been a problem for a lot of guys. Quick hands for a big guy. Lennox cut him up though whilst Gary reasonably competitive. Shame. Nice guy Gary. RIP.

[Steveh583]

I'd like to have seen bruno vs mason

[JamesPhilips]

I'd place Bruno above AJ and Fury, in a stylistical sense. I'd fancy him to beat them both.

AJ would be a more dangerous prospect purely based on being bigger and also powerful. Not sure he takes the heat as well as Frank, considering Frank took punches from massive punchers such as Tyson, Smith and Lewis. Witherspoon could also crack. Not sure AJ or Fury can take that.

Fury does not have the power or strength to hold Bruno at range or to tie him up. Ngannou was easily able to, physically, hold Fury off and though he is bigger that Bruno, Bruno also had some mad physical strength.

Bruno's powerful jab, yes slow, would rock Fury and he definitely had the power to hurt him. I think Bruno would just walk up and through him, unless he gassed later on (a possibility).

Bruno's era was much deeper that this current one, imo. You had Wlad and now Uysk. When I think about it, picking up Wlad and Uysk and dropping them into that era (late 80's and 90s), alongside the top tier guys then, I just think they get blown out of the water.

When you consider who was around, Holyfield, Foreman, Tyson, Tua, Lewis, Bowe, Ruddock, Witherspoon, Smith, Tucker, Douglas, Dokes etc....Bruno was a full level below them but Wlad and Usyk apart, would fancy him against much of what is came after and is about today such as Wilder, AJ, Fury, Parker, Dubois, Joyce, Zhiang, Audley, Chisora, Haye etc.

Just my opinion and we will never know.

Fury fan and quite a young one, I presume

LOL laughable projection. Bruno is awful, go and look at videos of him.just a big muscled bully who feasted on shot, fat, or small heavyweights.

Everyone keeps going on about the Tyson fight, where he landed ONE punch LMAO, got battered the remainder, got battered even worse the second fight… and the Lewis fight where he won a couple of rounds against a below par Lewis but got battered and stood there with a gormless open eyed look on his face…. He’s a total stiff and media creation

Probably the worst heavyweight ‘champion’ ever. Maybe slightly above Charles Martin.

[NazNaci1]

Well, let's just say I completely disagree with your 'opinion'. Completely.

Tyson, & Lewis, for example, would tear this era apart, so your points are not really accurate.

During his era, he was B level, possibly upper C class. In this era, he'd be considered A class, which says more about this era's HW's and their general poor quality, bar Uysk.

The rest are pretty low level and basic. Fury looked 'gormless' multiple times and against much poorer opponents, ditto AJ and ditto Wilder. That's the level we are talking about, here.

[SeanBrennan]

We're never going to know who would have won. I do think people tend to reflect on the previous era as better than current similar to how everything was better in their youth, you could leave your front door open and have a great night out for 4p etc.

It's a bit akin to rose tinted reflection but then again my eyesight has always been shite so who knows...

[MasterG]

Come on, AJ is rubbish, there's no way he should be anywhere near an ATG discussion, he would be so far out his depth vs a guy like Larry Holmes it's not even worth talking about him vs Lennox or Holyfield or so on. We don't need to, we can see hit his level vs Andy Ruiz Jr.

I don't agree with the comment 'rubbish' I would rather use the word 'mediocre'

AJ in the top 50 heavyweights of all time, I think he may make that cut.

[MasterG]

The thing about Big Frank was that you would often get him fighting somebody "who had gone the distance with Mike Dokes or Mike Weaver in his last fight", which sounds impressive, then Bruno would knock him out inside two minutes. Most of his opponents were poor who had long periods of inactivity. His management did him no favours really in a purist sense. Why did he never fight Berbick for the Commonwealth trinket ? Lawless would consider him too dangerous. The cartel were just ripping off the public. In hindsught.

A lot of these champions were only exposed when Mike T came along. Maybe it was Berbicks handlers who didn't want Bruno? Berbick held the title for what. 8 months but who's to say Don King held the deck to who fought who in that era. Maybe Lawless and promotors didn't want anything to do with King. Of course when Bruno beat McCall he had to face Tyson next. If he refused that stipulation he may well never have fought for the title. King had a lot of influence and held all the aces. Ask Tim Witherspoon that. Incidentally Tim Witherspoon as a daughter in west Yorkshire I believe. Maybe Barnsley area