If Greb is #1 who is #2 and #3?

[Ezzard]

I guess almost everyone has Greb as #1 at 160.

But who is #2. I suspect most will automatically say Robinson. And they might be right. But maybe they won't. And maybe he isn't...

Give me your #2 and #3 at Middleweight.

[Woller]

Sorry to say, but he is not in my top 10 list.
Monzon, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Nunn, Robinson - I could go on.

[Ezzard]

That's interesting. Harry doesn't make your 160 top 10.

What's your reasoning?

[gilgamesh]

Monzon and Hagler are easily all time Top 3 Middleweights by anyone's measure surely.

[elmersalsa]

Top 5 middleweights of all time in my view:
1. Carlos Monzon
2. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Harry Greb
5. Bernard Hopkins

[tiny_acres]

Top 5 middleweights of all time in my view:
1. Carlos Monzon
2. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Harry Greb
5. Bernard Hopkins

Solid list.

[giacomino]

Top 5 middleweights of all time in my view:
1. Carlos Monzon
2. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Harry Greb
5. Bernard Hopkins

Solid list.

I would have SRR #1 but can’t complain about the rest of the order. GGG would be up there in the top 10 too, despite the fact that his early title opposition was cupcake city. I thought he won the first Canelo fight (and maybe the second) and he had some decent wins on his record. Weird that anyone would think everyone has Greb as #1 at middleweight

[klompton]

Sorry to say, but he is not in my top 10 list.
Monzon, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Nunn, Robinson - I could go on.

Tell me youve wasted your life watching a sport without knowing what youre looking at without telling me…

[margaret thatcher]

shots fired

[tiny_acres]

Top 5 middleweights of all time in my view:
1. Carlos Monzon
2. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Harry Greb
5. Bernard Hopkins

Solid list.

I would have SRR #1 but can’t complain about the rest of the order. GGG would be up there in the top 10 too, despite the fact that his early title opposition was cupcake city. I thought he won the first Canelo fight (and maybe the second) and he had some decent wins on his record. Weird that anyone would think everyone has Greb as #1 at middleweight

I have Robinson #1 at Welterweight and P4P. I feel he just didn't deserve #1 at middleweight. Monzon and Hagler were better Middles in my opinion

[Seamus]

#2 Robinson 3#Gibbons

[DrDuke]

Top 5 middleweights of all time in my view:
1. Carlos Monzon
2. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Harry Greb
5. Bernard Hopkins

No to Hopkins.

[giacomino]

Solid list.

I would have SRR #1 but can’t complain about the rest of the order. GGG would be up there in the top 10 too, despite the fact that his early title opposition was cupcake city. I thought he won the first Canelo fight (and maybe the second) and he had some decent wins on his record. Weird that anyone would think everyone has Greb as #1 at middleweight

I have Robinson #1 at Welterweight and P4P. I feel he just didn't deserve #1 at middleweight. Monzon and Hagler were better Middles in my opinion

Fair enough. I have no real problem with Monzon and Hagler being at the top They are two of my favorite fighters

[Ambling Alp II]

The best middleweight has long been an argument between Greb, Robinson, Monzon, and Hagler. All were great but of course not perfect.

After that, there are a several guys that are very close: Flowers, Ketchel, Walker, Zale, LaMotta, Fullmer, Giardello, Tiger, Griffith, Benvenuti, Hopkins etc.
Some of these guys fought one or more of the other guys, sometimes multiple times, along with many others just a notch below. Always a fun division to talk about.

[funso banjo baby]

Hagler is numero uno

[Expug]

The best middleweight has long been an argument between Greb, Robinson, Monzon, and Hagler. All were great but of course not perfect.

After that, there are a several guys that are very close: Flowers, Ketchel, Walker, Zale, LaMotta, Fullmer, Giardello, Tiger, Griffith, Benvenuti, Hopkins etc.
Some of these guys fought one or more of the other guys, sometimes multiple times, along with many others just a notch below. Always a fun division to talk about.

Definitely true. And , a division with a number of guys who were great and never wore a belt. Charlie Burly, Loyd Marshall, cocoa kid, Bert lytel , etc.

[Ezzard]

My top guy is Greb.

After that I would consider #2 and #3 from the following...

Ketchel
Gibbons
Flowers
Robinson
Monzon
Hagler
Hopkins
Golovkin

Fitz is obviously a great and a tough night but not sure his record is there...

[Ambling Alp II]

Obviously you can come up with positives and negatives for everyone mentioned.

I don't see how Ketchel, Flowers, Gibbons, Hopkins and Golovkin can possibly be in the Top 4. It always goes down to Greb, Robinson, Monzon, and Hagler.

My big problem with rating Greb is the non-decision fights. He had over 180 of them. I don't see how they can be considered as the same value as regular fights. On the other hand, they weren't exhibitions either.

Robinson is hard to rate because he was better at welter and it's hard to get past that. He also had a a lot of losses when he was way past his time that need to be thrown out. I also think a lot of people only consider the last fight with LaMotta. He beat LaMotta 4 other times when he was way under 160.

With Monzon, a lot depends on how much credit he should get for beat slipping but not past it Griffith and Benvenuti.

With Hagler, the biggest problem I have are the Antuofermo and Leonard fights. Crybaby excuses aside, it seems odd that the best middleweight of all time did not win those fights. Yes, he could have got the decision against Antufoermo, but it would not have been that close if Hagler would not have dogged it in the last few rounds. Obviously, Hagler had great performances in other fights.

This division might have as many close calls any other. As expug mentioned, Burley, Marshall, Ccoca Kid, Lytell were great as well.

[Ezzard]

The best middleweight has long been an argument between Greb, Robinson, Monzon, and Hagler. All were great but of course not perfect.

After that, there are a several guys that are very close: Flowers, Ketchel, Walker, Zale, LaMotta, Fullmer, Giardello, Tiger, Griffith, Benvenuti, Hopkins etc.
Some of these guys fought one or more of the other guys, sometimes multiple times, along with many others just a notch below. Always a fun division to talk about.

Definitely true. And , a division with a number of guys who were great and never wore a belt. Charlie Burly, Loyd Marshall, cocoa kid, Bert lytel , etc.

Who do you think was the best of the non-champs? Charles?

[Expug]

The best middleweight has long been an argument between Greb, Robinson, Monzon, and Hagler. All were great but of course not perfect.

After that, there are a several guys that are very close: Flowers, Ketchel, Walker, Zale, LaMotta, Fullmer, Giardello, Tiger, Griffith, Benvenuti, Hopkins etc.
Some of these guys fought one or more of the other guys, sometimes multiple times, along with many others just a notch below. Always a fun division to talk about.

Definitely true. And , a division with a number of guys who were great and never wore a belt. Charlie Burly, Loyd Marshall, cocoa kid, Bert lytel , etc.

Who do you think was the best of the non-champs? Charles?

Certainly could make a case for Charles. Beat Burley twice. Which, of course is a huge accomplishment. There are so many “ legendary stories “ in boxing lore that make the sport fascinating. Greb and Mickey Walker getting in a street fight after there fight in the ring, Pep winning a round without throwing a punch, Johnson going in the tank vs Willard, Dempsey having plaster of Paris on his hand wraps during his slaughter of Willard , etc etc. who knows for sure about any of it. But one legend seems to pan out and that is when it was suggested to Sugar Ray to fight Burley, he was …. Less than enthusiastic

[cfang]

Charles is hard to rank. He was 162 when he beat burley 155. He wasn’t a middle for that long. The Charles that handily beat burley twice has to be up there.

Good point about Marvin. He’s my favourite fighter but if he’s the greatest middle ever he’d have found a way to beat Leonard and vito a in the first fight.

I’m going

Greb
Monzon
Hagler
Charles
Robinson

Then any one of about 15

[Ezzard]

Feel like Golovkin was cheated out of legit wins in the first two Alvarez fights. He's definitely in the mix.

[Ambling Alp II]

Charles is hard to rank. He was 162 when he beat burley 155. He wasn’t a middle for that long. The Charles that handily beat burley twice has to be up there.

Good point about Marvin. He’s my favourite fighter but if he’s the greatest middle ever he’d have found a way to beat Leonard and vito a in the first fight.

I’m going

Greb
Monzon
Hagler
Charles
Robinson

Then any one of about 15

I guess I just can't put Charles that high. He didn't fight there long enough to do as much as the other four did in their long time at middleweight. Skeptical if he really belongs higher than other guys that have been mentioned either.

Agree with the comment about one of the next 15. So many guys after them that are so close. Maybe Golovkin belong in there. Other guys from way back that nobody ever talks about like Teddy Yarosz, Al Hostak, Freddie Steele etc probably are not that far behind them.

[funso banjo baby]

Hagler was bivolled out of true glory

[Ezzard]

Hagler was bivolled out of true glory

You thinking about the Leonard result?