Who Do You Want? Toney or Ruiz?

HeavyHitters · Post by **HeavyHitters** » 31 Mar 2005, 13:38

For the good of boxing, who do you hope wins the fight between James "Lights Out" Toney and John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz?

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 31 Mar 2005, 13:47

Definitely Toney. He's my favourite fighter, but i'd root for him even if he weren't. In fact i'd root for anyone against Joan Louise.

RobD · Post by **RobD** » 31 Mar 2005, 14:00

Without a doubt Toney. Ruiz is just horrible. We can all thank David Tua for him adapting this jab and hold style. Plus Norman Stone is a disgrace.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 31 Mar 2005, 14:04

Toney.

johnty1888 · Post by **johnty1888** » 31 Mar 2005, 14:57

TONEY!!!

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 31 Mar 2005, 15:55

Toney

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 31 Mar 2005, 16:04

draw :P

ok toney

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 31 Mar 2005, 17:36

Toney: Ruiz makes it hard when you stay up waiting for a big fight to come on.

Then again, we don't get big fights anymore so why complain.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 31 Mar 2005, 19:25

HeavyHitters wrote:For the good of boxing, who do you hope wins the fight between James "Lights Out" Toney and John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz?

for the good of the sport...IT HAS TO BE TONEY!!

even those who consider him to be an arrogant buttwipe have to admit at least he has some skill...unless ruiz!! hopefully toney will KNOCK RUIZ & HIS IDIOT CORNERMAN STONE INTO PERMANENT RETIREMENT!!!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 31 Mar 2005, 19:38

Toney, I actually don't mind Ruiz and I think the stick he gets is undeserved. I have heard posters (usually the anti Jones bigrade at ESB) say that Rahman and Oquendo "DOA'd" when they fought Ruiz. Absolute crap, Ruiz beat them fair and square. He was robbed of a KO victory vs Johnson and also beat Golota (fairly in my opinion). Certainly not the worst champion in history (as Bunce described him).

A good fighter, but the comprehensive defeat by Roy Jones shows for me that a fight with Klitchsko wouldn't sell and is a forgone conclusion. He might be good enough to partially unify the belts (Byrd vs Ruiz will be interesting). He is not good enough for Klitchsko. If Toney wins, there will be talk of Toney vs Klitchsko and the if Toney wins well, it might show it too be an interesting fight.

Also, unlike when he lost vs Jones, Ruiz has now proven himself beyond doubt to be among the best in the devision. A loss here wouldn't signal the end of Ruiz and he can be involved in other intriguing contests for a version of the title (Byrd vs Ruiz, Ruiz vs Brewester). A loss for Toney would signal the end of him and too be fair, we need as many condentors as possible.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:17

stujones wrote:Toney, I actually don't mind Ruiz and I think the stick he gets is undeserved. I have heard posters (usually the anti Jones bigrade at ESB) say that Rahman and Oquendo "DOA'd" when they fought Ruiz. Absolute crap, Ruiz beat them fair and square. He was robbed of a KO victory vs Johnson and also beat Golota (fairly in my opinion). Certainly not the worst champion in history (as Bunce described him).

A good fighter, but the comprehensive defeat by Roy Jones shows for me that a fight with Klitchsko wouldn't sell and is a forgone conclusion. He might be good enough to partially unify the belts (Byrd vs Ruiz will be interesting). He is not good enough for Klitchsko. If Toney wins, there will be talk of Toney vs Klitchsko and the if Toney wins well, it might show it too be an interesting fight.

Also, unlike when he lost vs Jones, Ruiz has now proven himself beyond doubt to be among the best in the devision. A loss here wouldn't signal the end of Ruiz and he can be involved in other intriguing contests for a version of the title (Byrd vs Ruiz, Ruiz vs Brewester). A loss for Toney would signal the end of him and too be fair, we need as many condentors as possible.

Ruiz is appalling. His showing against Jones Junior was a fornicating disgrace in my opinion. The guy was defending a real world title belt, against a guy who he had significant physical advantages over. When the referee stopped him fighting his usual style, he just went into a massive megasulk for the rest of the fight, and was content to just lose his title. He didn't even make a serious fist of it.

Ruiz is definetly one of the worst heavyweight champions in history, at least Leon Spinks seized his chance and gave Ali a fight in their rematch.

The only way I see Toney losing this, is if he injures himself again during the fight, or if the referee lets Ruiz away with murders.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:32

Toney

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:35

If possible can they both lose? Neither is worth a damn

Toney at the lower weights had something to offer. At HW he is a blubbery joke who had got the gig for beating up on a faded name. even his trash talk schtick is pretty lame.

Ruiz, I despise less than Toney as he at least keeps his gob shut. But, in even the next weakest period for the HW division, say the post Ali period, he would barely have carved out a career as a sparring partner

a Horrible fight in prospect with only one loser, the HW division

Slapsie

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:47

I'd like Toney to win but I'm going for the draw.

Hey, I'm serious. Get on it. Judges really see things in different ways, depending who they are of course.

Toney is the better boxer, undoubtedly but Ruiz does have the knack of managing to do something to get on board.

However, with Toney apparently signing options with Don, I know who the convicted killer will want to win and who is easier to promote so that might have an impact.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:54

Ian, your last sentence is exactly what I am thinking, once I heard that Toney had signed options with King, I concluded 2 things.

1 The referee will not be someone favourable to Ruiz.
2 If it goes to a decision, Toney will get it.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:56

I want Toney to win but I think Ruiz will grind it out and win a close fight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:56

Slapsie Maxie wrote:If possible can they both lose? Neither is worth a damn

Toney at the lower weights had something to offer. At HW he is a blubbery joke who had got the gig for beating up on a faded name. even his trash talk schtick is pretty lame.

Ruiz, I despise less than Toney as he at least keeps his gob shut. But, in even the next weakest period for the HW division, say the post Ali period, he would barely have carved out a career as a sparring partner

a Horrible fight in prospect with only one loser, the HW division

Slapsie

Toney really isn't blubbery at heavyweight. There are plenty of heavyweights in far worse shape. He has a bit of a gut on him, but he's never been Mr sixpack. He has the back, shoulders and arms of a heavyweight. As Toney himself said.

"this ain't no mister universe contest."

Toney is a breath of fresh air in the HW division, at least the guy has bloody skills, which is more than most of them.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:56

Slapsie Maxie wrote:If possible can they both lose? Neither is worth a damn

Toney at the lower weights had something to offer. At HW he is a blubbery joke who had got the gig for beating up on a faded name. even his trash talk schtick is pretty lame.

Ruiz, I despise less than Toney as he at least keeps his gob shut. But, in even the next weakest period for the HW division, say the post Ali period, he would barely have carved out a career as a sparring partner

a Horrible fight in prospect with only one loser, the HW division

Slapsie

Toney really isn't blubbery at heavyweight. There are plenty of heavyweights in far worse shape. He has a bit of a gut on him, but he's never been Mr sixpack. He has the back, shoulders and arms of a heavyweight. As Toney himself said.

"this ain't no mister universe contest."

Toney is a breath of fresh air in the HW division, at least the guy has bloody skills, which is more than most of them.

Chris W 1982 · Post by **Chris W 1982** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:01

Ruiz will look an absolute arsehole if he loses to another former middleweight.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:15

Disagree James, at least Ruiz has made successful defences of his title against men in the top ten. All of his title WINS haven't been controvesial (can the same be said of Byrd?) and all of his title fights have been against top ten fighters (except Jones).

Leon Spinks wasn't a contendor for the worst champion in history, for me it was a simple case of too much too young. Had he not fought Ali, I think Spinks about 3 years later would have given Holmes an excellent contest. Ali was poor in their first fight, Leon though was tremendous and should get alot of credit. Ali but on his best display since 1975 (well I actually think it was better than that) in the rematch, he was in shape and really bouncing.

However, Ruiz is damn excellent if you compare him to Both, Seldon and IMO Bruno. Who between the three of them had 1 successful defence and that was against Joe Hipp of all people. I would call Ruiz a better champion than McCall also who struggled to get by an ancient Larry Holmes (majority decision).

I'd be even tempted to say he was a better champion than Michael Moorer, but Moorer was in a good era of champions and beat a peak Holyfield.

Ruiz beat Rahman and also beat a Holyfield (twice out of three) who WENT ON to beat Rahman, so yes - he was a better champion than him.

So there is 5 or 6 guys I have mentioned in recent times who have won versions of the big 3 belts who I consider Ruiz better than.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:23

Sure, but he's still ONE OF the worst heavyweight champions of all time, and is undoubtedly the most boring to watch.

I honestly think that he has been able to win only because referee's do not do their job's properly

Chris W 1982 · Post by **Chris W 1982** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:29

I agree with James. Referees would be within their rights to disqualify Ruiz. I hope Toney hasnds him his arse. He's an ugly fighter, a paper champion, and his trainer is the biggest wanker in the history of boxing. Come on Lights Out.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:36

The quiet man 2004 wrote:I agree with James. Referees would be within their rights to disqualify Ruiz. I hope Toney hasnds him his arse. He's an ugly fighter, a paper champion, and his trainer is the biggest wanker in the history of boxing. Come on Lights Out.

Get off the fence!

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:38

Toney by stoppage.

He's the best HW in the World.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:42

Graham Brett wrote:Toney by stoppage.

He's the best HW in the World.

Thank God I just checked my calendar or I would have believed you were serious

Slapsie

Who Do You Want? Toney or Ruiz?

Who Do You Want? Toney or Ruiz?

Re: Who Do You Want? Toney or Ruiz?