Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran 3 - April 1981

[gilgamesh]

Let's say that instead of facing Larry Bonds in March, they schedule a 3rd fight between Leonard and Duran. Now we have to ignore the fact that people really wouldn't have wanted to see this at the time, and simply take it as if it happened whether anyone was calling for it or not. Much like many of the matches we get now lol.

3rd fight. Duran is motivated and trains his very best because he wants to make up for the "No Mas" ending of the 2nd fight. He's as ready as he can be, and so is Leonard. What happens?

[Ambling Alp II]

OK. I will go first.

Leonard was not going to lose to him again. He would fight the smart fight that he did in the second fight. Duran wouldn't quit this time, but Léonard would win about 10 or 11 of the 15 rounds. Duran couldn't cope with a great boxer who fought scientifically. Benitez beat him comfortably as well.

If Duran really thought he could win, he never would have moved up to the Jr middleweight division away from Leonard.

The biggest question would be what would be the excuse for Duran this time? Cry about the decision? Would it have been the size of the ring, the gloves, his pet hamster died, another tummy ache?

[gilgamesh]

OK. I will go first.

Leonard was not going to lose to him again. He would fight the smart fight that he did in the second fight. Duran wouldn't quit this time, but Léonard would win about 10 or 11 of the 15 rounds. Duran couldn't cope with a great boxer who fought scientifically. Benitez beat him comfortably as well.

If Duran really thought he could win, he never would have moved up to the Jr middleweight division away from Leonard.

The biggest question would be what would be the excuse for Duran this time? Cry about the decision? Would it have been the size of the ring, the gloves, his pet hamster died, another tummy ache?

I think you pretty well have it pegged. I can't see Leonard making the same tactical error he made in the first fight and slugging it out with him ever again after the success of the 2nd fight.

Duran always struggled with quick movers, and Leonard was one of the quickest of the quick. As long as Leonard chooses to box Duran instead of brawl with him, he's always gonna come out on top.

[keithmoonhangover]

OK. I will go first.

Leonard was not going to lose to him again. He would fight the smart fight that he did in the second fight. Duran wouldn't quit this time, but Léonard would win about 10 or 11 of the 15 rounds. Duran couldn't cope with a great boxer who fought scientifically. Benitez beat him comfortably as well.

If Duran really thought he could win, he never would have moved up to the Jr middleweight division away from Leonard.

The biggest question would be what would be the excuse for Duran this time? Cry about the decision? Would it have been the size of the ring, the gloves, his pet hamster died, another tummy ache?

I think you pretty well have it pegged. I can't see Leonard making the same tactical error he made in the first fight and slugging it out with him ever again after the success of the 2nd fight.

Duran always struggled with quick movers, and Leonard was one of the quickest of the quick. As long as Leonard chooses to box Duran instead of brawl with him, he's always gonna come out on top.

Same for me too. Leonard on points with rounds to spare.

[elmersalsa]

Roberto Duran was the better fighter. And when he had something to prove, he always came on top. It's true that movers were Duran's kryptonite. But, Duran also beat movers like Sugar Ray Leonard: Ken Buchanan, Vilomar Fernandez, Edwin Viruet, Josef N'Buga were all movers and Duran beat them all. Plus, he was theost experienced fighter. Leonard knew that he couldn't beat Duran at his very best. He knew it.

But, not in this night to prove who was better. That second fight was a scam as you wanted to be. Duran was BETRAYED and SOLD by his own manager Carlos Eleta. It was all set up for Duran to fail and for Sugar Ray to succeed. It was a shame. Leonard was a great boxer. But, he didn't need outside sources to help him.

Duran again wins by decision. He was the better fighter of the two and Leonard knew it.

[gilgamesh]

Roberto Duran was the better fighter. And when he had something to prove, he always came on top. It's true that movers were Duran's kryptonite. But, Duran also beat movers like Sugar Ray Leonard: Ken Buchanan, Vilomar Fernandez, Edwin Viruet, Josef N'Buga were all movers and Duran beat them all. Plus, he was theost experienced fighter. Leonard knew that he couldn't beat Duran at his very best. He knew it.

But, not in this night to prove who was better. That second fight was a scam as you wanted to be. Duran was BETRAYED and SOLD by his own manager Carlos Eleta. It was all set up for Duran to fail and for Sugar Ray to succeed. It was a shame. Leonard was a great boxer. But, he didn't need outside sources to help him.

Duran again wins by decision. He was the better fighter of the two and Leonard knew it.

I don't know if Leonard would agree that Duran is better since he beat him twice, and also beat Hagler, Hearns, and Benitez while Duran could not.

[elmersalsa]

Roberto Duran was the better fighter. And when he had something to prove, he always came on top. It's true that movers were Duran's kryptonite. But, Duran also beat movers like Sugar Ray Leonard: Ken Buchanan, Vilomar Fernandez, Edwin Viruet, Josef N'Buga were all movers and Duran beat them all. Plus, he was theost experienced fighter. Leonard knew that he couldn't beat Duran at his very best. He knew it.

But, not in this night to prove who was better. That second fight was a scam as you wanted to be. Duran was BETRAYED and SOLD by his own manager Carlos Eleta. It was all set up for Duran to fail and for Sugar Ray to succeed. It was a shame. Leonard was a great boxer. But, he didn't need outside sources to help him.

Duran again wins by decision. He was the better fighter of the two and Leonard knew it.

I don't know if Leonard would agree that Duran is better since he beat him twice, and also beat Hagler, Hearns, and Benitez while Duran could not.

Sugar Ray beat Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns at 147lbs. Roberto Duran fought those two guys at 154lbs. Big difference.

With Marvelous, big difference too. Duran was the the first to challenge him IN HIS PRIME, while being 32 years old. Sugar Ray fought a Marvelous in decline. Plus, he was 30 years old. Marvelous was 33. It was his time to go as champion after reigning 7 years and 13 title defenses.

[gilgamesh]

Roberto Duran was the better fighter. And when he had something to prove, he always came on top. It's true that movers were Duran's kryptonite. But, Duran also beat movers like Sugar Ray Leonard: Ken Buchanan, Vilomar Fernandez, Edwin Viruet, Josef N'Buga were all movers and Duran beat them all. Plus, he was theost experienced fighter. Leonard knew that he couldn't beat Duran at his very best. He knew it.

But, not in this night to prove who was better. That second fight was a scam as you wanted to be. Duran was BETRAYED and SOLD by his own manager Carlos Eleta. It was all set up for Duran to fail and for Sugar Ray to succeed. It was a shame. Leonard was a great boxer. But, he didn't need outside sources to help him.

Duran again wins by decision. He was the better fighter of the two and Leonard knew it.

I don't know if Leonard would agree that Duran is better since he beat him twice, and also beat Hagler, Hearns, and Benitez while Duran could not.

Sugar Ray beat Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns at 147lbs. Roberto Duran fought those two guys at 154lbs. Big difference.

With Marvelous, big difference too. Duran was the the first to challenge him IN HIS PRIME, while being 32 years old. Sugar Ray fought a Marvelous in decline. Plus, he was 30 years old. Marvelous was 33. It was his time to go as champion after reigning 7 years and 13 title defenses.

Duran would've lost to Benitez and Hearns at 147 also. Hearns absolutely demolished him with ease.

[goose 5]

Great question, imo. If Leonard had used his New Orleans tactics in Montreal, I still think Duran beats him. Duran was on a mission that night. However, a rubber match in April , 1981 is a tough call. I'd lean towards Leonard on a close decision.

[elmersalsa]

I don't know if Leonard would agree that Duran is better since he beat him twice, and also beat Hagler, Hearns, and Benitez while Duran could not.

Sugar Ray beat Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns at 147lbs. Roberto Duran fought those two guys at 154lbs. Big difference.

With Marvelous, big difference too. Duran was the the first to challenge him IN HIS PRIME, while being 32 years old. Sugar Ray fought a Marvelous in decline. Plus, he was 30 years old. Marvelous was 33. It was his time to go as champion after reigning 7 years and 13 title defenses.

Duran would've lost to Benitez and Hearns at 147 also. Hearns absolutely demolished him with ease.

None of the two, Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns beat Roberto Duran at welterweight. They beat Duran in a weight class above his best weight range. And 154lbs, was not the best weight of the great Roberto Duran.

At welterweight, the Montreal Duran wins. Different class.

[gilgamesh]

Sugar Ray beat Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns at 147lbs. Roberto Duran fought those two guys at 154lbs. Big difference.

With Marvelous, big difference too. Duran was the the first to challenge him IN HIS PRIME, while being 32 years old. Sugar Ray fought a Marvelous in decline. Plus, he was 30 years old. Marvelous was 33. It was his time to go as champion after reigning 7 years and 13 title defenses.

Duran would've lost to Benitez and Hearns at 147 also. Hearns absolutely demolished him with ease.

None of the two, Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns beat Roberto Duran at welterweight. They beat Duran in a weight class above his best weight range. And 154lbs, was not the best weight of the great Roberto Duran.

At welterweight, the Montreal Duran wins. Different class.

Call me skeptical that Duran would've been able to defeat a guy who destroyed him 2 lopsided rounds with ease. 7 pounds may have made it a different fight, it wouldn't have changed them completely as human beings though. Hearns still was gonna tower over Duran height wise, he's still gonna have that snappy right hand, and he's still gonna get to Duran. Maybe not in 2, but within 8 for sure. It's just a nightmare style matchup for Duran.

[elmersalsa]

Great question, imo. If Leonard had used his New Orleans tactics in Montreal, I still think Duran beats him. Duran was on a mission that night. However, a rubber match in April , 1981 is a tough call. I'd lean towards Leonard on a close decision.

It's a possibility that Sugar Ray Leonard would have won the third fight. Mentally, the No Mas fiasco affected Roberto Duran for many months, and not many people were behind him nor supporting him. Duran would have needed a tune up fight or two at welterweight to clear the No Mas fiasco doubts, then fight Leonard again.

April 81 would be too soon to fight with all that had transpired. He would have needed about two tune up fights and mentally recuperated from it.

But, on June 20, 1980, Leonard could have had a rocket on his feet, he wasn't beating Duran that night. Duran was a machine that night. I think that it would have been worse for Leonard if he "fought his fight" claims.

[elmersalsa]

Duran would've lost to Benitez and Hearns at 147 also. Hearns absolutely demolished him with ease.

None of the two, Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns beat Roberto Duran at welterweight. They beat Duran in a weight class above his best weight range. And 154lbs, was not the best weight of the great Roberto Duran.

At welterweight, the Montreal Duran wins. Different class.

Call me skeptical that Duran would've been able to defeat a guy who destroyed him 2 lopsided rounds with ease. 7 pounds may have made it a different fight, it wouldn't have changed them completely as human beings though. Hearns still was gonna tower over Duran height wise, he's still gonna have that snappy right hand, and he's still gonna get to Duran. Maybe not in 2, but within 8 for sure. It's just a nightmare style matchup for Duran.

Thomas Hearns beats Roberto Duran above welterweight. From welterweight on down, it would be all Manos de Piedra.

And why? Hearns legs would have not withstand a brutal fast-paced fight like Duran fought Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal. I don't think that Hearns could have keep up the pace. The pace was brutal in Montreal.

Hearns' legs BETRAYED HIM against Leonard. It would betrayed him more against Duran at 147lbs. Hearns legs were too frailed for that weight class.

But, at 154lbs, Hearns' legs were sturdier and stronger. His upper body strength was also bigger and stronger. That is the difference when you gain 7 more pounds.

You only see one way and not the other. The physical advantages for both fighters. Plus, the experience. Duran in 1980 wasn't Pipino Cuevas. He was way better and smarter than Pipino. He was not an easy target. Ask Leonard.

[Ambling Alp II]

Crybaby excuses aside, everything points to Leonard winning.

Duran barely won the first fight. It was very close. That was fighting Duran's fight. In the rematch, Leonard fought his own fight and was winning handily when Duran quit like a baby.
Leonard would have fought his own style in a third fight and Duran simply wasn't good enough to beat that.

And of Duran really thought he would won a third fight Leonard, he never would have ran away from him and moved up to 154. He would have stayed at 147. He knew he would have got another shot at Leonard sooner or later.

[elmersalsa]

Crybaby excuses aside, everything points to Leonard winning.

Duran barely won the first fight. It was very close. That was fighting Duran's fight. In the rematch, Leonard fought his own fight and was winning handily when Duran quit like a baby.
Leonard would have fought his own style in a third fight and Duran simply wasn't good enough to beat that.

And of Duran really thought he would won a third fight Leonard, he never would have ran away from him and moved up to 154. He would have stayed at 147. He knew he would have got another shot at Leonard sooner or later.

You are those that believe everything about Sugar Ray Leonard. A great fighter? Yes. Better than Roberto Duran? Not.

Why? June 20, 1980 was the answer. Duran showed the critics that he was the greatest fighter in the world without paying another manager $8 million dollars, fighting on even terms, and both at their peak.

Duran whupped him. That's all is to it. Like it or not. That was something that the American boxing media couldn't accept. A Latin boxer, considered a bully and uneducated with no English language, was the face of boxing. It was UNACCEPTABLE.

In Montreal, even if Leonard fought his fight, he was going to lose. It wasn't a guarantee if he ran like in New Orleans. Why? Duran was better all along. In everything!

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

He beat srl by a round - his greatest achievement- then was embarrassed in a rematch and quit like a bitch

Was knocked out face first by hearns (who srl stopped)
Lost to hagler (who srl beat after a ridiculous layoff)

Fun fact
My grade school prinicipal loved roberto duran. Almost as much as elmer. Hed shadow box and say "dont mess with roberto" when he saw me (my dad was his good friend) at my dads direction, one day i did the fake bolo back and said "no dont mess with sugar ray" he instantly launched into a defense of no mas. I had no idea what he was talking about since I was 10.

[Expug]

Yep , Duran won a close decision in Montreal.
Then, Duran quit in the rematch.
As a result, Leonard was never given a chance to redeem himself after the loss.
We will never know how a series at 147 would go because of that little adventure in the rematch.
After Duran quit, interest in them fighting again seemed to diminish.
Who wanted to see that again?

[giacomino]

Tend to agree with the (non-Elmo) consensus. Leonard was fighting his fight in the second bout and likely would have won a 10-5, 9-6 decision if Duran hadn’t quit. I can’t see why a third fight would have been any different. Duran didn’t carry the same punch at 147 as he did at 135 and SRL would have outboxed him again. I thought Duran won the first fight by a wider margin than the scoring, but SRL was never going to fight that fight again against Duran

[gilgamesh]

He beat srl by a round - his greatest achievement- then was embarrassed in a rematch and quit like a bitch

Was knocked out face first by hearns (who srl stopped)
Lost to hagler (who srl beat after a ridiculous layoff)

Fun fact
My grade school prinicipal loved roberto duran. Almost as much as elmer. Hed shadow box and say "dont mess with roberto" when he saw me (my dad was his good friend) at my dads direction, one day i did the fake bolo back and said "no dont mess with sugar ray" he instantly launched into a defense of no mas. I had no idea what he was talking about since I was 10.

Some actions in life you don't try to defend them. You just move forward, and try to erase your low point with more high points. Which to Duran's credit he did.

[elmersalsa]

Yep , Duran won a close decision in Montreal.
Then, Duran quit in the rematch.
As a result, Leonard was never given a chance to redeem himself after the loss.
We will never know how a series at 147 would go because of that little adventure in the rematch.
After Duran quit, interest in them fighting again seemed to diminish.
Who wanted to see that again?

Roberto Duran was the better fighter. The second bout was not on even terms. It was all a sham and a dirty fix to make sure Sugar Ray Leonard gets the title back to America. It was necessary to bribe Carlos Eleta. That was the only way he could beat Duran by using his own manager to betray him for $8 million dollars.

A dirty fix that Leonard fan boys don't want to admit. Everything about that second fight was all phony, a scam and wicked. One of the wickedest arrangements for a rematch ever in the history of boxing.

That No Mas was won as soon as Eleta signed the dotted line of betrayal and greed. That's all that No Mas was all about.

Duran was caught in an ambush. Let's make a bigger ring, let's pay his manager $8 million and let's not give that Latin bully time to train. It was a BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY never seen in boxing history since nor before that event. A totally orchestrated sham to make Duran lose the best way possible.

That whole thing was WICKED.

[elmersalsa]

He beat srl by a round - his greatest achievement- then was embarrassed in a rematch and quit like a bitch

Was knocked out face first by hearns (who srl stopped)
Lost to hagler (who srl beat after a ridiculous layoff)

Fun fact
My grade school prinicipal loved roberto duran. Almost as much as elmer. Hed shadow box and say "dont mess with roberto" when he saw me (my dad was his good friend) at my dads direction, one day i did the fake bolo back and said "no dont mess with sugar ray" he instantly launched into a defense of no mas. I had no idea what he was talking about since I was 10.

Roberto Duran kicked his ass in the first fight. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard's face before and after the fight. His own mama didn't recognized him.

[Expug]

Who didn’t let Duran train?
I know you’re gonna post the same thing about Eleta but who stopped Duran from training?
Arcel? Freddie Brown? They both said he was in great shape before the fight.
Duran made weight.

[gilgamesh]

Who didn’t let Duran train?
I know you’re gonna post the same thing about Eleta but who stopped Duran from training?
Arcel? Freddie Brown? They both said he was in great shape before the fight.
Duran made weight.

Eleta sold him out for 8 Million dollars! It was the wickedest most evil deed since the reign of Ivan the Terrible. He locked Duran in a Hotel for months, and fed him donuts, and gave him all the whiskey he could drink! It was dastardly I tells ya!

[elmersalsa]

Who didn’t let Duran train?
I know you’re gonna post the same thing about Eleta but who stopped Duran from training?
Arcel? Freddie Brown? They both said he was in great shape before the fight.
Duran made weight.

Roberto Duran asked for more time because he was in trouble of making weight. Don King, his manager since 1975, said no.

So, Carlos Eleta and Don King were the ones that betrayed their most prized fighter. That was the way it was.

[gilgamesh]

So Don King thought it would be in his best financial interest to screw over his fighter to help out Ray Leonard whom he did not promote?

A business move that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, that'll fool 'em all that's for sure.