Comparing Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard :What's more impressive:

[goose 5]

Ali's wins against Liston, Foreman and Frazier or Leonard's wins against Benitez, Duran and Hearns ?

[gilgamesh]

They're both pretty much as impressive a run as anyone has ever had in their respective weight classes. I'd give Ali the edge because he was a huge underdog against both Liston and Foreman.

[goose 5]

That's a good point but I'd rank Leonard's opposition as better pound for pound.

[elmersalsa]

In my top 5, Muhammad Ali is in it. More longevity, more wins and much more accomplishments than Sugar Ray Leonard.

[gilgamesh]

That's a good point but I'd rank Leonard's opposition as better pound for pound.

They're about even in terms of achievement honestly.

And let's be real here. If you really want to break down this Pound for Pound stuff. When Ali fought Foreman he was giving away about 10 or 15 pounds to the bigger, stronger Foreman. When Leonard fought Hearns. They both weighed 147 pounds

Ali has more great wins than Leonard really. Their biggest wins are on about the same level, but Ali has more Elite Level wins than Leonard does.

[Controversial]

I’d give it to Ali

[goose 5]

Foreman was 220 and Ali was 216.5, ,

[Seamus]

Leonard's 3 were much better.

[Ezzard]

In one way it's harder to dominate at HW. But Leonard's big wins are against much better opposition. He also beat a bigger variation of styles. Liston and Foreman were perfect foils for Ali. Leonard didn't really have that luxury.

[gilgamesh]

Leonard and Ali's very biggest wins are on a similar level, but overall Ali has a lot more quality wins on his ledger simply from having spent more time as Champion.

He has some big non title wins to his credit in 1972 and 73 as well.

Both he and Leonard had one of the deepest fields of competition that has ever existed in Boxing any era.

[goose 5]

I'm only looking to compare 3 specific opponents of each man. For instance, I'd rate Duran as pound for pound better than anyone Ali ever beat. I'd also argue that in 1979, Benitez was a better fighter than Frazier was in 1974 and 1975.

[Ambling Alp II]

There are only a handful of fighters in boxing history who have a "victim's list close to these two. As in, less than 10. I do think that sometimes heavyweights get the shaft in pound for pound listings.

Obviously, Ali's wins are impressive. However, I think just going by the fights that are listed, Leonard's are even more impressive.

[gilgamesh]

Ultimately Heavyweight don't even need people to give them credit in a pound for pound sense because the reality is even the weakest of Ali's victims could've beaten all of Leonard's victims and Leonard himself in the same week.

People talk so much about pound for pound this and pound for pound that that I guess they sometimes lose sight of that.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Big George BTFO Ali and ruined him for the rest of his career where he becomes something of a Diva. This can clearly be seen when Wepner in his next fight beat up Ali so badly he was whining to the ref in the middle of Podunk Ohio. Why Podunk, Ohio?

Easy...Ali ducked the lucrative $10 mil 50/50 Foreman rematch in Indonesia in favor of Ohio peanut$ after Ferdie told Herbert Ali was too badly injured internally to ever risk fighting George again. Add on his and his fans shameful actions post Frazier 1 after Frazier beat him up, well Ali became a propped up celebrity type fighter. Between George, Joe, and Ken and Ali hanging on way to long, it was a very tragic dark end for him.

- No bigger Ray fan than I, but Duran put a Foreman like beating on Ray in their first fight that turned Ray into a runner/diva. When I found out years later that Ray had been training secretly in a private gym for near a year for his comeback vs Marv, and when that Mexican judge gave him a 118-110 near shut out in what was obviously a close split decision or draw type of fight that the other two judges had, well, the fix was in place.

Ray ducked the immediate rematch that Marv waited out a year before announcing his retirement. Ray immediately, nay conveniently announces his comeback to my complete and utter disdain.

[Caractacus]

You cant not compare the two.
as a matter of fact, it was a deliberate attempt to make SRL
sort of a clone of Ali (who was retiring from the ring at that point)
Howard Cossell became SRL biggest 'cheerleader' starting with the 1976 Olympics.
Then SRL crew then hired Angelo Dundee as "trainer' when he turned pro
so that the public would more associated his name and 'brand" with SRL
and all the publicty with it.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well they were both obviously 2 of the Top 10 fighters of all time, so we can some kind of comparison.
Maybe the best way would be for people to look their own pound for Pound list. Duran, Hearns, and Benitez were clearly Top 50. Frazier and Foreman as well. Liston would be pushing it though.
So just looking at these 3 opponents for each, Leonard would seem to have a slight edge.

[gilgamesh]

Well they were both obviously 2 of the Top 10 fighters of all time, so we can some kind of comparison.
Maybe the best way would be for people to look their own pound for Pound list. Duran, Hearns, and Benitez were clearly Top 50. Frazier and Foreman as well. Liston would be pushing it though.
So just looking at these 3 opponents for each, Leonard would seem to have a slight edge.

You also gotta take into account though that Ali was a HUGE underdog against Liston and Foreman.

I don't think Leonard was the underdog in any of these bouts. Maybe Hearns, but if so only by the thinnest of margins.

[DrDuke]

Leonard's list edges, especially if you add the 4th name and thus Sugar has Hagler.

[elmersalsa]

Sugar Ray Leonard best wins:
WTKO15 Wilfred Benitez
WTKO8 Roberto Duran (II)
WTKO14 Thomas Hearns
WTKO9 Ayub Kalule
W12 Marvelous Marvin Hagler

Muhammad Ali best wins:
WTKO7 Sonny Liston
WTKO12 Floyd Patterson
W12 Ken Norton (II)
W12 Joe Frazier (II)
WKO8 George Foreman
WTKO14 Joe Frazier (III)
WTKO11 Ron Lyle
W15 Earnie Shavers
WTKO3 Jerry Quarry
W15 George Chuvalo
WTKO5 Henry Cooper
WTKO3 Cleveland Williams
WKO8 Bob Foster

More wins and more longevity. Ali was better.

[Cojimar 1946]

Leonards quality of opposition seems higher

[Ambling Alp II]

At the very top it might be a hair higher. Most people would rate Hagler at #4 as far as Leonard's victims, given that Hagler was while still great was a little past his best. However, if you factor in Lenard beating him after being off so long you could rate that as #1.

Even if we don't factor that in, and have Hagler at #4, the Hagler win would still edge Ali's win over Patterson. (or Norton, if you rate Norton over Patterson)
But after that, you have to look at the depth of Ali's victims. It is unbelievable. Even besides those already mentioned, he also beat Folley, Bugner, Terrell etc.

Comparing Leonard with almost every other fighter, Leonard's top 4 wins are so much more impressive that it isn't worth looking any further.

So when comparing Leonard to almost anyone else (except for Langford, Greb, Armstrong, Robinson, Charles, Moore) he trumps him because his top 4 is so fantastic and so much better than their top 3 or 4. However, you could argue that since Ali's Top 4 is almost as good and his depth is so deep, that Ali deserves to be rated slightly higher than Leonard.

[elmersalsa]

I don't have a problem with Muhammad Ali being in the top 5 all-time pound per pound great boxers. He really had a great resume.

Plus, add the historical impact, longevity and accomplishments, make you say wow!

[elmersalsa]

Muhammad Ali is #1 heavyweight in my view also.

[elmersalsa]

I don't have a problem with Muhammad Ali being in the top 5 all-time pound per pound great boxers. He really had a great resume.

Plus, add the historical impact, longevity and accomplishments, make you say wow!

That's something that Sugar Ray Leonard could not be a top 5. Too many deserving champions blocks Leonard from the top ten. Too many greats, men!

[Cojimar 1946]

Ultimately Heavyweight don't even need people to give them credit in a pound for pound sense because the reality is even the weakest of Ali's victims could've beaten all of Leonard's victims and Leonard himself in the same week.

People talk so much about pound for pound this and pound for pound that that I guess they sometimes lose sight of that.

Hearns could beat plenty of Alis journeyman opponents