How good Billy was Joe Saunders really?

[Cbarnes19]

Always been a funny one, Billy Joe. On his best nights (like against Lemieux) he looked slick as anything, but the constant weight gain between fights and antics outside the ring has always held him back.

So where do you lot put him? Elite, world class, just good, or overrated?

I ended up doing a tier list on his career recently which got me thinking about it a lot - won’t spoil where I placed him, but it made me realise just how differently people see him. Curious to hear your opinion.

[Ruthless-RKO]

He had some right smelly performances at times.

The fight with Akakov in Paisley was shocking. I think that’s when I was first introduced to Ben Davison.

He had a few other stinkers.

It was only when he had a propa opponent in front of him he actually got out of bed. When it really mattered. Was quite raw if you ask me. He wasn’t the most entertaining in the ring either.

[Cbarnes19]

I think there’s definitely a real sense of underachievement there.

All the talent in the world with the brain of a chimp seemingly.

And as you say which you’re bang on with - often involved in seriously dull fights which didn’t help his cause, particularly the Akovov WORLD TITLE fight in front of about 50 people in a leisure centre.

[margaret thatcher]

i think of elite as like p4p fighters or those in contention for it, i dont think he was that level. he was legit world class though i think.

[Cbarnes19]

In terms of talent I fully believe he’s probably in the category above his career as whole, in fairness he’s a two weight world champ which obviously is a fantastic achievement and on paper beating Andy Lee to win it is legit, however Andy Lee was definitely beyond his best by then and his other world title win and defences beyond that were poor to say the least.

[tigermoth87]

Your typical B-level British World Champion.

Good wins against other B-level fighters, Some soft title defences because his handlers know if he faced the elite he would lose. Faced an elite fighter and got smoked.

Also very boring to watch.

[KiwiRider]

When he was on, and up for it, he was capable of beating anyone in the division, and putting the crowd into a coma whilst doing it.
He made Canadians 'Booo!'

Canadians!

He had 4 good wins, none of them particularly good to watch.

He was, and is, not a good human being. I fully expect to read at any stage that he has done something stupid or nasty and ends up doing a stretch.

[Cbarnes19]

Your typical B-level British World Champion.

Good wins against other B-level fighters, Some soft title defences because his handlers know if he faced the elite he would lose. Faced an elite fighter and got smoked.

Also very boring to watch.

I’d definitely agree on the boring part and the poor defences however I think talent wise he was definitely above B-level just never really rose to the occasion and had the career he should have.

[Cbarnes19]

When he was on, and up for it, he was capable of beating anyone in the division, and putting the crowd into a coma whilst doing it.
He made Canadians 'Booo!'

Canadians!

He had 4 good wins, none of them particularly good to watch.

He was, and is, not a good human being. I fully expect to read at any stage that he has done something stupid or nasty and ends up doing a stretch.

Yeah I can’t really fault anything you’ve just said tbh, talent was never in question with BJS.

As I touched on in the video and it’s a hill I’m willing to die on; in terms of ability he was pretty much leading the pack in the UK just didn’t have the attitude or application to go with it.

Waste of talent for sure.

[paultom]

He was one of the better WBO title holders but like a lot of British 'world champions' he failed at the highest level, to call himself a double world champ is pushing it a bit too. Had way too many points wins and never really put in on anyone with a devastating performance. Obviously very capable but either too cautious or lazy to get the publics attention, which he did many times for the wrong reasons.

[Cbarnes19]

He was one of the better WBO title holders but like a lot of British 'world champions' he failed at the highest level, to call himself a double world champ is pushing it a bit too. Had way too many points wins and never really put in on anyone with a devastating performance. Obviously very capable but either too cautious or lazy to get the publics attention, which he did many times for the wrong reasons.

Yeah you’re right, the two weight champion tag does flatter him when you look at who he actually beat and defended during that run, however it is factually correct.

You’re absolutely on the money with what you say though, he completely pissed away all his talent with his stupidity out the ring and lack of desire in it.

Sadly he’s just a big ‘what if’ and ironically if timings were different he’d have been a perfect fit for Andy Lee’s camp right now IMO.

[Ruthless-RKO]

A lot of his fights kept getting postponed too. Didn’t help. Kept chasing the GGG undisputed fight as well.

Another big fight which didn’t happen was Andrade. Which was a shame.

Who did he beat for the 168 belt? Shefat Isufi? How’s he even challenging for a world title?

he was a big example of Warřeń’ș typical British WBO champion.

[giacomino]

Really dislike when the governing bodies put name, undefeated beltholders or top contenders in with clubfighters like Isufi for vacant belts. It cheapens even more than usual the idea that somebody is a "champion." His fights at 168 were all pretty embarrasing, other than the Canelo fight. He had a few good wins. at 160. Ultimately you're judged on how you perform, not your potential

[SeanBrennan]

Beautiful boxer, underwhelming resume. Will be remembered for actions out of the ring not in.

Could have been an easy hall of famer with his talent but rarely lived the life. Seemed to me a 154 fighter who never wanted to live right

[Ruthless-RKO]

Beautiful boxer, underwhelming resume. Will be remembered for actions out of the ring not in.

Could have been an easy hall of famer with his talent but rarely lived the life. Seemed to me a 154 fighter who never wanted to live right

Probably cus he’s done way more out of the ring than he had inside.

[Bigdogsnose]

I was expecting Andy Lee to stand him on his head. He was too slick though.

[SeanBrennan]

I was expecting Andy Lee to stand him on his head. He was too slick though.

So was I I thought Lee would stop him, Lee could absolutely banjo opponents too. I think that was Billy’s best win in terms of opponent although the Lemieux fight was better to see

[SeanBrennan]

Beautiful boxer, underwhelming resume. Will be remembered for actions out of the ring not in.

Could have been an easy hall of famer with his talent but rarely lived the life. Seemed to me a 154 fighter who never wanted to live right

Probably cus he’s done way more out of the ring than he had inside.

He has almost infamy for various criminal and quasi-scummy endeavours

[Coco]

Very good in fairness

There was little in the fight v Canelo until he quit

[Bigdogsnose]

I was expecting Andy Lee to stand him on his head. He was too slick though.

So was I I thought Lee would stop him, Lee could absolutely banjo opponents too. I think that was Billy’s best win in terms of opponent although the Lemieux fight was better to see

That was the other fight I was going to mention but wasn’t sure how to spell it!

[SeanBrennan]

I was expecting Andy Lee to stand him on his head. He was too slick though.

So was I I thought Lee would stop him, Lee could absolutely banjo opponents too. I think that was Billy’s best win in terms of opponent although the Lemieux fight was better to see

That was the other fight I was going to mention but wasn’t sure how to spell it!

Haha. I’m not sure I did either mate

[veriton]

Elite in terms of talent yet hard to fathom how a brain capable of producing such beautiful mastery in the physical world of the boxing ring was totally unable to function on any sort of acceptable level in real life.

If he lived how he fought he would be an incredible human being. Sadly not though.

[forcefraser]

Lemieux was not a great boxer, but he could fight and was very dangerous.

Saunders's performance that night was brilliant, he was several leagues above.

His conditioning was great as well. I always wondered whether he'd been on the wild boar meat for that fight

[tigermoth87]

Your typical B-level British World Champion.

Good wins against other B-level fighters, Some soft title defences because his handlers know if he faced the elite he would lose. Faced an elite fighter and got smoked.

Also very boring to watch.

I’d definitely agree on the boring part and the poor defences however I think talent wise he was definitely above B-level just never really rose to the occasion and had the career he should have.

He definitely had talent. But I can't put him higher than B because he never beat anyone higher than that level. His best win is arguably Lee, Lemieux or Eubank Jr. Who are all firmly B level fighters--good names to have on a resume of course, but you would never call either of them world class. I guess B+ is a better ranking to put him. He was above the B level fighters, but never proved himself against any of the genuine top level fighters in the division.

[SeanBrennan]

He was a more successful boxer than hare courser we know that much.