Over Inflated Win/loss records

[Ambling Alp II]

Thought this would be.

Just happened to look at Caveman Lees record. It was 22-4. If you didn't know anything about boxing you would think that he must have been really good. However, he wasn't. Somehow he got a shot at the title against Marvin Hagler. Got ko'd in the first round. going thorugh his record on the database, I could only find one other fighter that I had heard of. (Or at least remember). That was Fwank the Animal Fletcher. A fun guy to watch, but no one accused him of being great. Fletcher stopped Lee in just 4 rounds.

Of course, there have with better records than Lee who weren't very good.

LaMar Clark was 43-3. Actually, fought a young Cassius Clay got stopped in two rounds. Lost to Pete Rademacher, who was probably the 2nd best fighter he ever fought.

Don Steele was 44-2 going into a fight against a sliding Ray Mercer. I had never heard of him before the fight. The guy could not fight at all. Mercer stopped him easily.
His record is filled with wins over guys nobody heard of.

Anway, who are some other guys like this?

[gilgamesh]

Quite a few guys that have shiny looking records on paper, but there's not a lot of substance there when you look into who they're beating.

Brian Nielsen (64-3 (43 KO's) at Heavyweight had a record that looked a lot nicer than the reality of the fighter that had it.

There was that guy that fought Chavez twice. Marty Jakubowski (119-7). He had a really nice looking record, mostly built against just local level guys.

Yory Boy Campas (108-17-3) knocked out cans for years, and built up a sh*t load of wins and knockouts on his record, but not a lot of particularly meaningful opponents.

You could go on and on with guys that have kinda BS'd there way into title contention like Caveman Lee.

[gilgamesh]

How about that dude Morrade Hakkar who was somehow the mandatory contender for one of Hopkins' Middleweight belts back in 2003.

I think Hakkar only had 1 loss coming into that bout, but to say he was unimpressive in his loss to Hopkins would be a massive understatement.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Lamar Clark

[Expug]

Quite a few guys that have shiny looking records on paper, but there's not a lot of substance there when you look into who they're beating.

Brian Nielsen (64-3 (43 KO's) at Heavyweight had a record that looked a lot nicer than the reality of the fighter that had it.

There was that guy that fought Chavez twice. Marty Jakubowski (119-7). He had a really nice looking record, mostly built against just local level guys.

Yory Boy Campas (108-17-3) knocked out cans for years, and built up a sh*t load of wins and knockouts on his record, but not a lot of particularly meaningful opponents.

You could go on and on with guys that have kinda BS'd there way into title contention like Caveman Lee.

I knew Marty at one time in the late 80s.
Id drive down to a gym in whiting Indiana from Chicago where he trained to workout. It was above City Hall or the courthouse or some public building which I always thought was funny and cool at the same time.
Real nice kid and the thing about him was, he was a tremendous boxer. Slick , great moves. I guess he could’ve taken on better opposition. Like some other fighters on that Midwest circuit, he fought constantly against a lot of journeymen types. The Reggie Stricklands , Walter Cownans , etc. Hell he even fought his brother.

[Controversial]

So many. Boxing is smoke, mirrors and BS most of the time. Padded careers, fighters paid to lose, the odds skewed so far for the A side that they struggle to lose etc etc

[goose 5]

Earl Hargrove.

[margaret thatcher]

maybe the active leader for this is abel mendoza, who is 42-0 (31) but not even in boxrec's top 100 in his division as i post this

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/750352

[giacomino]

maybe the active leader for this is abel mendoza, who is 42-0 (31) but not even in boxrec's top 100 in his division as i post this

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/750352

Nine more wins and we can call him the GOAT

[elmersalsa]

Nino La Rocca comes to mind. Who did he beat before challenging for Donald Curry's WBA World Championship belt?

He had an astonishing ring record of 58-1. The question was, who did he beat? He saw reality when Curry knocked him out in six rounds.

[gilgamesh]

maybe the active leader for this is abel mendoza, who is 42-0 (31) but not even in boxrec's top 100 in his division as i post this

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/750352

That kinda thing seems particularly common in the Flyweight divisions and lower. Dudes will be 61-0 taking on a guy making his Debut in Thailand or some sh*t.

[giacomino]

maybe the active leader for this is abel mendoza, who is 42-0 (31) but not even in boxrec's top 100 in his division as i post this

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/750352

That kinda thing seems particularly common in the Flyweight divisions and lower. Dudes will be 61-0 taking on a guy making his Debut in Thailand or some sh*t.

Not really, outside Thailand, where veteran Muay Thai fighters might box a match where they are described as making their boxing debut or having few boxing fights. It’s not like it’s guys off the street. And there aren’t flyweights and below in Mexico, Argentina, Japan who commonly have 61-0 or inflated records. No more so than heavyweights or welterweights, particularly in the Midwest US or parts of Europe. I’ve been to shows in Bangkok and the guys with little in the way of a boxing record looked pretty experienced to me

[gilgamesh]

That can definitely be misleading if a guy is making his Pro debut but has had dozens of Muay Thai fights.

It would definitely be the equivalent of having fairly extensive amateur experience I'd think except your attack would be more focused on doing damage as opposed to point scoring.

[Ambling Alp II]

Quite a few guys that have shiny looking records on paper, but there's not a lot of substance there when you look into who they're beating.

Brian Nielsen (64-3 (43 KO's) at Heavyweight had a record that looked a lot nicer than the reality of the fighter that had it.

There was that guy that fought Chavez twice. Marty Jakubowski (119-7). He had a really nice looking record, mostly built against just local level guys.

Yory Boy Campas (108-17-3) knocked out cans for years, and built up a sh*t load of wins and knockouts on his record, but not a lot of particularly meaningful opponents.

You could go on and on with guys that have kinda BS'd there way into title contention like Caveman Lee.

Nielsen did beat the great Don Steele.

[Ambling Alp II]

Nino La Rocca comes to mind. Who did he beat before challenging for Donald Curry's WBA World Championship belt?

He had an astonishing ring record of 58-1. The question was, who did he beat? He saw reality when Curry knocked him out in six rounds.

For once I am going to agree with elmer. LaRocca had this great record going into the Curry fight which was on national TV. He was no match for Curry. Looking at his record, can't find anyone that he beat that I had heard of.

[gilgamesh]

Ricardo Moreno is one as well. 60-12 with 59 KO's. Most of his wins are over guys with losing records or debutees. He has 1 win over a faded contender which allowed him to get a world title shot which he of course lost.

His record is noteworthy though for being so KO heavy. His 1 non KO win was a disqualification, and 9 of his 12 losses were knockouts. So a KO one way or the other was the result almost always when he fought.

[Expug]

Nino La Rocca comes to mind. Who did he beat before challenging for Donald Curry's WBA World Championship belt?

He had an astonishing ring record of 58-1. The question was, who did he beat? He saw reality when Curry knocked him out in six rounds.

For once I am going to agree with elmer. LaRocca had this great record going into the Curry fight which was on national TV. He was no match for Curry. Looking at his record, can't find anyone that he beat that I had heard of.

Ya, agree. I remember watching that Curry fight.
Beforehand there was big hype on this Larocca fella. Undefeated , blah ,blah. I thought “ man I gotta check this guy out. He got thrashed. Barely heard about him again.

[Sweet Dick Willie]

Lomachenko. 18-3 but still the greatest boxer of the generation. And two of his losses were robberies.

[Sweet Dick Willie]

So as in inflated win-loss ratio

[gilgamesh]

So as in inflated win-loss ratio

Lomachenko is the opposite end of this spectrum actually. He's a guy who's record is much much better than it looks by the numbers.

Normally if you saw a guy with Marty Jakubowski's record going up against a guy with Lomachenko's record. You'd favor Jakubowski.

But all the quality is in Lomachenko's record.

[Sweet Dick Willie]

So as in inflated win-loss ratio

Lomachenko is the opposite end of this spectrum actually. He's a guy who's record is much much better than it looks by the numbers.

Normally if you saw a guy with Marty Jakubowski's record going up against a guy with Lomachenko's record. You'd favor Jakubowski.

But all the quality is in Lomachenko's record.

That is absolutely correct. I was just talking about the numbers.

[gilgamesh]

Numbers wise he's the opposite of over inflated.

Over inflated is someone with an impressive looking record built on weak opposition. Lomachenko isn't that.

[Sweet Dick Willie]

Ah yeah that's true, his name just came immediately to my mind when talking about misleading records.

[giacomino]

Nino La Rocca comes to mind. Who did he beat before challenging for Donald Curry's WBA World Championship belt?

He had an astonishing ring record of 58-1. The question was, who did he beat? He saw reality when Curry knocked him out in six rounds.

For once I am going to agree with elmer. LaRocca had this great record going into the Curry fight which was on national TV. He was no match for Curry. Looking at his record, can't find anyone that he beat that I had heard of.

Ya, agree. I remember watching that Curry fight.
Beforehand there was big hype on this Larocca fella. Undefeated , blah ,blah. I thought “ man I gotta check this guy out. He got thrashed. Barely heard about him again.

I disagree. Larocca could box, and he had beaten the typical mix of veterans on the way up, but he didn't have a big punch to keep the elite off him. I saw several of his fights before the Curry fight. Curry was at his prime when they fought. Curry Ko'd Colin Jones in fewer rounds in his next fight and McCroy less than a year later in 2. Larocca wasn't a superstar but he was a decent fighter and there were dozens of fighters less qualified for a title shot. Hell, there are more inflated fighters these days that have paper title belts

[giacomino]

Lomachenko. 18-3 but still the greatest boxer of the generation. And two of his losses were robberies.

No. Haney was the only terrible decision. Robbery is the most overused word in boxing among fans. Robbery is Whitaker vs Ramirez I, Campillo vs Shumenov II, Whitaker vs Chavez, Canelo vs GGG I, where somebody who clearly won didn't get the decision. Loma was his own worst enemy in the fights he lost.