OVERRATED CHAMPIONS!.... WHO AND WHY!....

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 May 2005, 12:17

Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, Lennox Lewis, Bernard Hopkins, Prince Nassem Hamed.... Tyson was supposed to be badder than Marciano and Frazier put together!... Lewis was said by his trainer to be 'better than Ali'... Jones and Hopkins have been called 'Great' yet look at the quality of most of their opposition!. Hamed talked about his 'legend' but was he really ever truely 'Great'?..... views anyone?...

8)

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 05 May 2005, 15:17

How about Terry Norris??? Now, that's OVERRATED!!!

wsbuf · Post by **wsbuf** » 05 May 2005, 15:22

You mean Hall of Famer Norris??

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 05 May 2005, 15:43

I don't believe Jones and Hamed were overrated when you look at the fighters they've beaten. The only overrating going on with them is by themselves, when they open their mouths. You have to forget what rubbish came out of their gobs and concentrate on their ring achievements alone

Jones barely lost a round in his entire career and Hamed basically unified the featherweight division, no mean feat

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 May 2005, 15:54

bollox wrote:I don't believe Jones and Hamed were overrated when you look at the fighters they've beaten. The only overrating going on with them is by themselves, when they open their mouths. You have to forget what rubbish came out of their gobs and concentrate on their ring achievements alone

Jones barely lost a round in his entire career and Hamed basically unified the featherweight division, no mean feat

But Jones avoided a lot of fighters, never went out of his backyard to fight while Hamed looked shakey everytime he fought a talented fighter and came ultimately unstack against Barrera... both were talented but no where near the 'Legendary' status some give them... Jones is most certainly not the best boxer pound for pound of all time like some seem to think, and Hamed turned out not to be the best Featherweight of his era!.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 05 May 2005, 15:59

silkov wrote:
bollox wrote:I don't believe Jones and Hamed were overrated when you look at the fighters they've beaten. The only overrating going on with them is by themselves, when they open their mouths. You have to forget what rubbish came out of their gobs and concentrate on their ring achievements alone

Jones barely lost a round in his entire career and Hamed basically unified the featherweight division, no mean feat
But Jones avoided a lot of fighters, never went out of his backyard to fight while Hamed looked shakey everytime he fought a talented fighter and came ultimately unstack against Barrera... both were talented but no where near the 'Legendary' status some give them... Jones is most certainly not the best boxer pound for pound of all time like some seem to think, and Hamed turned out not to be the best Featherweight of his era!.

Fair points. They'renot legendary fighters by any stretch of the imagination. but.... Jones didn't fight DM for whatever reason (he beats him easily IMO) but can't really think of anyone else that he didn't fight

Hamed - a fighter such as he was (all reflexes, short and squat) was always IMO going to have a relatively short prime

Jones in his prime was a uniquely talented fighter

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 05 May 2005, 16:05

Hamed is a joke.

Kevin Kelley was beating his ass until Hamed landed an illegal blow (his hardest punch of the fight) while Kelley was rising from a slip.

Kevin Kelley and Manuel Medina are the only people with names that Hamed beat, everyone else was just a padded record home town fighter.

Lennox Lewis, Roy Jones, etc... Are overrated by some, and underrated by some as well... As is the case with most popular fighters overall.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 06 May 2005, 03:06

It's got to be Hamed. The most overrated fighter of the past 20 yrs. When he finally met a decent opponent in Barerra, he was whipped and Barerra didn't break a sweat....

barry · Post by **barry** » 06 May 2005, 03:28

>>>>But Jones avoided a lot of fighters<<<<

Jones did not avoid anybody! All Jones did was continuously move up in weight and accomplish things that only one other fighter in history ever accomplished (Bob Fitzsimmons) up to that point. He fought the best light heavyweights, that would fight him and dominated like very few before him!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 May 2005, 05:26

It's a shame Jones didn't hang around at SM though,

Hamed beat PLENTY of good fighters, go look at his record, and look at the records of the fighters he beat before talking bollocks.

Who are all these 'home town' fighters he beat? Do you mean Paul Ingle, Wayne McCulloch, Cesar Soto, Wilfredo Vasquez, Tom Johnson, and Vuyani Bungu? What utter bollocks you talk Tantum...

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 06 May 2005, 06:11

Mike Tyson!

Very exciting & all that, but who did he beat?

Has no fighting heart or plan B & has always been KO'd when he's stepped up in class (or down as is the case with Williams

)!

JamesD · Post by **JamesD** » 06 May 2005, 07:22

Tantum Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamed is a joke.

Kevin Kelley was beating his ass until Hamed landed an illegal blow (his hardest punch of the fight) while Kelley was rising from a slip.

That comment is a joke. Go back and watch the fight again.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 06 May 2005, 07:34

I've seen it about 20 times.

Hamed was getting trounced until he landed that illegal shot. And it was the hardest punch he landed in the fight.

James McDonald....

I didn't say those fighters were bums.

They are good fighters, but the only really good fighters Hamed fought were Kelley and Medina. (And Barrera) (At the time he fought them)

Johnson was used up, and Vazquez was a really good fighter, but he was 38 years old, cmon now.

J · Post by J » 06 May 2005, 07:39

this is easy to solve really

when hamed was with Ingle he is underated by most

post ingle overated.

simple as that.

barry · Post by **barry** » 06 May 2005, 08:09

Hamed faced very good competition throughout his career and until Barrera, he pretty much dominated everyone he faced. He unified the featherweight titles and I don't recall that he ever ducked anyone. A lot of people say that Barrera exposed Hamed, but I think that it was more of a case that Hamed was way too confident and thought that he could just knock everyone out, which lead him to go entirely for a knockout instead of boxing until an opening presents itself and a boxer as great as Barrera will tear apart someone that is just trying to land a knockout punch, as he showed against Hamed.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 May 2005, 08:10

Tantum wrote:Hamed is a joke.

Kevin Kelley and Manuel Medina are the only people with names that Hamed beat, everyone else was just a padded record home town fighter.

Ok, right, so there must be someone else on here called Tantum who said those words above, right?

If not, then I guess 'home town fighter' is a colloquialism for 'former world champion' in that case.

Don't go making comments you cannot back up, and then try and backpedal out of them, because it's very easy to look foolish.

Oh, and it's McDonnell.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 May 2005, 08:15

barry wrote:Hamed faced very good competition throughout his career and until Barrera, he pretty much dominated everyone he faced. He unified the featherweight titles and I don't recall that he ever ducked anyone. A lot of people say that Barrera exposed Hamed, but I think that it was more of a case that Hamed was way too confident and thought that he could just knock everyone out, which lead him to go entirely for a knockout instead of boxing until an opening presents itself and a boxer as great as Barrera will tear apart someone that is just trying to land a knockout punch, as he showed against Hamed.

You know, for a Yankee-doodle, you do actually talk some sense.

Hamed was acting like a prize prick in the build up to the fight, arguing about his hotel room, his haircut, his ring entrance, taking the result as a foregone conclusion, and not training like a champion. He was no longer with Ingle, the man who made him and who understood how to bring the best in him, and had yes-man Suarez, and the greedy Mr Fixit Manny. Manny made it clear he wasn't happy with his training, but he should have left the camp rather than share a corner with Suarez, the whole set up was a fiasco.

That was the ultimate flaw with Hamed, success and riches overtook him, and the desire to fight and train was not as strong as the desire to be in control and be the man.

I don't know if the Ingle Hamed would have beaten Barrera or not, but he would have made a much harder night of it, and wouldn't have simply tried to bomb Barrera out with every punch.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 06 May 2005, 08:49

jamesmcdonnell wrote:If not, then I guess 'home town fighter' is a colloquialism for 'former world champion' in that case.

Ingle, Sanchez, Hardy, Molina, Cabrera and the likes, is what I meant by my initial comment.

Then there's Vazquez and Johnson who were both past it when he fought them. Being non-specific(and a bit forgetful, admittidly), then specifying is not "back-pedaling".

McCullough is a tough guy, no world beater by far.

Hamed's career is much like Tyson's I would say... All about proper management, and image... People pay money for "excitement" and most people thought Hamed was exciting if nothing else.

Hamed falls short of his hype(If you like him, that's ok, but don't blow him up into something he's not, or get mad at me for criticizing... We all have our opinions after all).

And sorry about the "McDonald" I had just woken up. :P

barry · Post by **barry** » 06 May 2005, 09:33

>>>Hamed falls short of his hype(If you like him, that's ok, but don't blow him up into something he's not, or get mad at me for criticizing... We all have our opinions after all<<<

Funny, you cannot seem to grasp that exact concept in regards to Vitali Klitschko!

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 06 May 2005, 09:49

Beacuse I think he's better than Byrd?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 May 2005, 10:02

Tantum wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:If not, then I guess 'home town fighter' is a colloquialism for 'former world champion' in that case.
Ingle, Sanchez, Hardy, Molina, Cabrera and the likes, is what I meant by my initial comment.

Then there's Vazquez and Johnson who were both past it when he fought them. Being non-specific(and a bit forgetful, admittidly), then specifying is not "back-pedaling".

McCullough is a tough guy, no world beater by far.

Hamed's career is much like Tyson's I would say... All about proper management, and image... People pay money for "excitement" and most people thought Hamed was exciting if nothing else.

Hamed falls short of his hype(If you like him, that's ok, but don't blow him up into something he's not, or get mad at me for criticizing... We all have our opinions after all).

And sorry about the "McDonald" I had just woken up. :P

I'm not blowing him up into anything, but your comment was WAY wide of the Mark.

McCulloch may not be a world beater according to you, but he was a former world champion, albeit at a lower weight, and Hamed did just as well against him as Morales did. Even now McCulloch is good enough to give Larios a fright.

You've conveniently cherry picked those you deem the worst of Hamed's opponents, avoiding the former and future world champions he beat. Ingle went on to win the IBF world title, so was hardly a patsy.

Just admit your comments were out of line and plain incorrect, and we can just call it a day.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 06 May 2005, 10:27

I didn't say they were patsy's...

Ingle and McCullough weren't "world champions", they were title holders... There is a difference.

barry · Post by **barry** » 06 May 2005, 10:50

>>>Ingle and McCullough weren't "world champions", they were title holders... There is a difference<<<

That's one of the things I have been trying to get you to grasp about Vitali Klitschko...to no avail!

One thing is certain, Vitali never faced anywhere near the competition that Hamed did.

All Hamed did was completely clean out the featherweight division and there are really just a very few fighters on his entire record that were not tough, quality boxers and to say otherwise, well it just plainly shows someones actual lack of knowledge!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 May 2005, 11:01

Tantum wrote:I didn't say they were patsy's...

Ingle and McCullough weren't "world champions", they were title holders... There is a difference.

No, you said they were 'padded record hometown fighters' same thing.

Define world champion then....? How many of the current divisions are unified.

Is Vitali 'world champion'? Who did he beat then to earn that right? Johnson, Sanders, Williams? Or maybe his loss to Byrd. Vitali LOOKS the best out there, but he's yet to prove it. Let's see him beat someone who is in shape, hungry and dangerous. None of the three men above he beat fits that criteria. Johnson was out of shape, Sanders old, and Williams was inept.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 06 May 2005, 11:04

No, Vitali isn't the "world champion"... I never said he was.

I do rank him above the others, but he's not the "world champion" yet.

OVERRATED CHAMPIONS!.... WHO AND WHY!....

OVERRATED CHAMPIONS!.... WHO AND WHY!....

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