Don Cockell

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 16 Jun 2005, 20:52

What was he like? All I can find on google is the fact that he fought Marciano and had a Glandular problem that turned him into a Heavyweight.

Was a pig farmer too I read in Boxing Montly from last Decembers Issue.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Jun 2005, 21:29

I thought that that was one marciano opponent that shouldnt have got a shot at the title. He was like 6'0 205lbs and chubby. he was pretty strong and had some heart but he was knocked ot by middleweight randy turpin. his fight with marciano signiffied the downfall and aging of marciano. he battled marciano tough in the early going. he just plain out was nothing more than a journeyman. the man did manage to beat an old tommy farr and beat light-H contender harry kid mathews 3 times. he also beat roland la starza a legit heavyweight contender.

He held the british empire heavyweight title when he fought marciano. i would have rather seen marciano fight nino valdez instead, though nino wasnt that good. when i think of cockell i think of a good journeymen but not a top contender. the only reason he got a shot at the title was because he was the british champ .

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 16 Jun 2005, 21:55

Cockell WASN'T a heavyweight, he was a light-heavyweight with a very SERIOUS glandular problem that caused him to fight as a heavyweight and brought about his eventual death...

He was No journeyman, but rather a ligitimate contender at L-HW, with his British titles and proud career, "sealed' by his great wins over Mathews and Roland LaStarza... "If" he could have remained at L-HW he may well have been World Champ!

J · Post by J » 17 Jun 2005, 04:58

thats interesting Jim cos i have some fottage of his fight with Marciano and couldnt undersatnad why he was so out of shape.

perhaps he wasnt after all but the glandular tproblem made his body shape appear so.

you learn somethin new everyday hey

jab · Post by **jab** » 17 Jun 2005, 08:20

He was a good fighter. Rocky was not showing signs of aging, he just overtrained for that fight expecting a far stronger and bulier foe. Other than being a bit slower in the first 3 he got the hang of it and did the job well.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Jun 2005, 09:28

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:I thought that that was one marciano opponent that shouldnt have got a shot at the title. He was like 6'0 205lbs and chubby. he was pretty strong and had some heart but he was knocked ot by middleweight randy turpin. his fight with marciano signiffied the downfall and aging of marciano. he battled marciano tough in the early going. he just plain out was nothing more than a journeyman. the man did manage to beat an old tommy farr and beat light-H contender harry kid mathews 3 times. he also beat roland la starza a legit heavyweight contender.

He held the british empire heavyweight title when he fought marciano. i would have rather seen marciano fight nino valdez instead, though nino wasnt that good. when i think of cockell i think of a good journeymen but not a top contender. the only reason he got a shot at the title was because he was the british champ .

You're wrong to say Cockell was a journeyman, he got the title bout with Marciano after beating a number of rated contenders and he was ranked in the top 10 so that makes him a bonafide contender not a journeyman.
Cockell was a very talented fighter who probably could have won the Light-heavyweight title save for the glandular problem he had which meant that everything he ate or drank (including water) was turned into suger and this caused him to blow up terribly in weight. He was very drained from losing weight for the Turpin fight after which he decided to go up to heavyweight where he still struggled to keep to a reasonable fighting weight although he went up to about 210. Despite this he was a useful heavyweight with good speed and he did well against Marciano despite constant fouls and roughing up tactics that Rocky used against his quick moving opponent. Who knows how well Cockell would have done had he not been fouled so outrageously!.
As for Nino Valdez not being any good what makes you say that?.... have you seen his record?. I'm sure Marcianos manager didn't keep Rocky away from Valdez because he didn't think he was good enough to give him a good fight.

J · Post by J » 17 Jun 2005, 11:23

KEEP IUT COMING GUYS THIS IS FASCIINATING STUFF, I SAW THE MARCIANO FIGHT ON DVD.
and fornicate that was a terrible foul he smacked him when he was down full on.

i never knew about he glandualr thing though as I say,. i just thought, fornicate he looked out of shape but obviously wasnt.

thanks gents its good to learn

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 17 Jun 2005, 11:26

J wrote:KEEP IUT COMING GUYS THIS IS FASCIINATING STUFF, I SAW THE MARCIANO FIGHT ON DVD.
and fornicate that was a terrible foul he smacked him when he was down full on.

i never knew about he glandualr thing though as I say,. i just thought, fornicate he looked out of shape but obviously wasnt.

thanks gents its good to learn

cockell had an overactive thyroid, but he was a very very good fighter

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 17 Jun 2005, 12:19

I wonder how different the Marciano v Cockell fight would have gone if it had been staged in the UK with a British referee?

I am sure the Rock would have still won, but he may have had a few points taken off and he may have taken a little longer to stop Cockell if he was forced to cut back on some of the 'rough stuff'.

Just a thought.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 17 Jun 2005, 14:29

Don't wonder about Cockell/Marciano...

think more along the lines of Cockell the L-HW thats where his legacy belongs, because thats what he was a L-HW with an excellent career against 'class' opponents including HW's!

World light-heavyweight Champion (?), as good a chance as any!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Jun 2005, 14:34

KOJOE90 wrote:I wonder how different the Marciano v Cockell fight would have gone if it had been staged in the UK with a British referee?

I am sure the Rock would have still won, but he may have had a few points taken off and he may have taken a little longer to stop Cockell if he was forced to cut back on some of the 'rough stuff'.

Just a thought.

Had Marciano used the same tactics against Cockell in the Uk or anywhere outside the US he'd have been disqualified for sure. I remember reading an article about the fight by Peter Wilson a very respected journalist who was actually very fond of Rocky and he commented on the terrible fouls and tells how Rocky went ashen faced when he saw some of the fouls himself on film afterwards.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 Jun 2005, 15:18

Did they have anything back then to have sorted out the Glandular problem?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 17 Jun 2005, 18:38

Silkov, Nino Valdez had his chance to fight marciano but got outclassed by archie moore in an eliminater. so rocky obviousely had to face the better of the two which was the still formidable moore.

Cockell was a tough englishmen who obviiousely had courage. The man was really flabby around the midsection which way have been because of his problem. I just thought that he was definetely the worst challenger marciano fought but thats prob because he fought some good ones. COCKELL BEAT HARRY KID MATHEWS 3 TIMES AND MATHEWS WAS A GOOD FIGHTER. COCKELL WAS THE BRITISH CHAMP WHICH ALSO MAY HAVE INFLUENCED HIS TITLE SHOT. I WONDER IF HE COULD HAVE STAYED AT LIGHT-H HE MAY HAVE HAD A CHANCE AT THE TITLE.
that fight was defientely marcianos most sloppy fight and marciano had a hard time gettig motivated because he said " I cant get my self going, everyone already knows im gonna knock this guy out." and the rock was even DECKED by a sparring partner as training camp. THATS WHEN AL WEILL KICKED EVERYONE OUT OF TRAINING CAMP AND WENT BISERK LOL. "if he does this to cockell were all dead".

but cockell put up a game fight and marciano himself said cockell was strong, had courage, and was hard to get at in the early rounds.

jab · Post by **jab** » 18 Jun 2005, 03:50

Max Molyneux wrote:Did they have anything back then to have sorted out the Glandular problem?

no they did not. In fact I dont think they have much today either. Other than special diet there is not much you can do. There might be some surgery, but if you want to have a fighting career, you cant do it. when you get cut up like that you wont be able to fight. Any punch that strays in the ares of the cut will put you out of action, no matter how well you trained.

Just shows how tough the guy was, fighting through all that at world class level. They dont make them this tough today. Just monster muscles from pumping iron and winded after a few rounds.
There is not one heavyweight today who could fight 15 rounds anymore. The old timers were smaller, but had much more heart and toughness.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 18 Jun 2005, 08:24

They have tablets for it today.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Jun 2005, 16:07

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Silkov, Nino Valdez had his chance to fight marciano but got outclassed by archie moore in an eliminater. so rocky obviousely had to face the better of the two which was the still formidable moore.

Cockell was a tough englishmen who obviiousely had courage. The man was really flabby around the midsection which way have been because of his problem. I just thought that he was definetely the worst challenger marciano fought but thats prob because he fought some good ones. COCKELL BEAT HARRY KID MATHEWS 3 TIMES AND MATHEWS WAS A GOOD FIGHTER. COCKELL WAS THE BRITISH CHAMP WHICH ALSO MAY HAVE INFLUENCED HIS TITLE SHOT. I WONDER IF HE COULD HAVE STAYED AT LIGHT-H HE MAY HAVE HAD A CHANCE AT THE TITLE.
that fight was defientely marcianos most sloppy fight and marciano had a hard time gettig motivated because he said " I cant get my self going, everyone already knows im gonna knock this guy out." and the rock was even DECKED by a sparring partner as training camp. THATS WHEN AL WEILL KICKED EVERYONE OUT OF TRAINING CAMP AND WENT BISERK LOL. "if he does this to cockell were all dead".

but cockell put up a game fight and marciano himself said cockell was strong, had courage, and was hard to get at in the early rounds.

By the time Nino fought Moore he had already been a top contender for over 3 years and the eliminator took place largely due to pressure being put on Marcinao to fight either Moore or Valdez. Moore had a wage a lengthy campaign through the Ring MAGAZINE in order to get the chance to fight Rocky as weill was not eager for Rocky to face either Valdez or Moore.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 19 Jun 2005, 03:45

jimglen wrote:Cockell WASN'T a heavyweight, he was a light-heavyweight with a very SERIOUS glandular problem that caused him to fight as a heavyweight and brought about his eventual death...

He was No journeyman, but rather a ligitimate contender at L-HW, with his British titles and proud career, "sealed' by his great wins over Mathews and Roland LaStarza... "If" he could have remained at L-HW he may well have been World Champ!

The wins over LaStarza and Matthews were at heavyweight, not light heavyweight. Not to say that Cockell couldn't have been better at light heavyweight than he was at heavyweight, though.

Cockell was much more than a journeyman. I have read that his win over LaStarza was a hometown decision, and of the three Matthews wins, one was a split decision and one was a stoppage due to a back injury, so Cockell's heavyweight resume may be a bit less impressive than it seems, but he was absolutely a top contender, not a journeyman. His flabby appearance was due to a gland problem that caused his body to produce excess fat, not because he was out of shape. You shouldn't just judge him by that initial impression.

Marciano did foul Cockell blatantly several times in the eighth and ninth rounds, but it's just being silly to say "Who knows how he could've done without the fouls." Cockell clearly didn't have a chance against Marciano. All three judges gave Marciano every round, except the second round, which one judge gave to Cockell and one judge had even. Cockell was obviously in way over his head.
I think the fouling was largely due to the poor refereeing of the fight. Frank Brown just stood by and did nothing to warn Marciano after he got wild and started landing foul shots, so Rocky did nothing to change what he was doing, and the fouls kept coming. With a British ref, who would have been more strict, Marciano obviously would've cleaned up his act after the first warning or point deduction, not gotten disqualified. Not to mention that the fight should've been stopped about a round earlier, because Cockell was just taking a beating at that point.

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 21 Jun 2005, 04:03

I remember Cockell quite clearly from when I first became interested in boxing, and years later, by coincidence, his daughter worked in my office. Ironically I think I knew more about her father's career than she did, as he had died when she was very young and her mother didn't really tell her too much about Don's boxing.

Don was actually a very good fighter, in an era where fighters were "matched tough". As noted in the previous posts, he had a medical condition that caused him to have serious weight problems, and was often referred to - rather insensitively - as "Fat Boy".

A lot of the "negative" about Don in his pre-heavyweight days related to a bad defeat by Randolph Turpin, but at the time he was struggling with his weight - and Turpin was a seriously under-rated boxer.

The Marciano fight caused a certain amount of shock in England when people saw the rough-house tactics that Marciano employed - but of course, that was Rocky's style, and he might have been disqualified had the fight been refereed to a more strict standard. But Don would never have beaten Rocky had they fought 100 times over - he wasn't in that league as a heavyweight. Nor do I think he'd have beaten Archie Moore at LH either - he was, in my opinion, a good British/European level champion who would have fallen just short at true world level.

In the post-fight interviews, I recall Marciano saying "I hit him with my best shots, and he just came back for more!".... Don didn't lack for courage and determination.

As an indication of how things have changed from that time compared to today, Cockell - who lived in Battersea, South London - was asked what he had enjoyed most in his career. He replied that his biggest thrill had been to be able to affort a small car so that he could take his family on drives into the countryside and get away from built-up Battersea for a few hours. I guess these days, it might be the $1M contract with TV!

Anyway, just a few memories....

J

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Jun 2005, 05:46

Marciano Frazier wrote:
jimglen wrote:Cockell WASN'T a heavyweight, he was a light-heavyweight with a very SERIOUS glandular problem that caused him to fight as a heavyweight and brought about his eventual death...

He was No journeyman, but rather a ligitimate contender at L-HW, with his British titles and proud career, "sealed' by his great wins over Mathews and Roland LaStarza... "If" he could have remained at L-HW he may well have been World Champ!
The wins over LaStarza and Matthews were at heavyweight, not light heavyweight. Not to say that Cockell couldn't have been better at light heavyweight than he was at heavyweight, though.

Cockell was much more than a journeyman. I have read that his win over LaStarza was a hometown decision, and of the three Matthews wins, one was a split decision and one was a stoppage due to a back injury, so Cockell's heavyweight resume may be a bit less impressive than it seems, but he was absolutely a top contender, not a journeyman. His flabby appearance was due to a gland problem that caused his body to produce excess fat, not because he was out of shape. You shouldn't just judge him by that initial impression.

Marciano did foul Cockell blatantly several times in the eighth and ninth rounds, but it's just being silly to say "Who knows how he could've done without the fouls." Cockell clearly didn't have a chance against Marciano. All three judges gave Marciano every round, except the second round, which one judge gave to Cockell and one judge had even. Cockell was obviously in way over his head.
I think the fouling was largely due to the poor refereeing of the fight. Frank Brown just stood by and did nothing to warn Marciano after he got wild and started landing foul shots, so Rocky did nothing to change what he was doing, and the fouls kept coming. With a British ref, who would have been more strict, Marciano obviously would've cleaned up his act after the first warning or point deduction, not gotten disqualified. Not to mention that the fight should've been stopped about a round earlier, because Cockell was just taking a beating at that point.

I'm not saying that Cockell would have won but you can't deny that fouls affect a fighter... and these were't just minor fouls but blatant and vicious fouls which had Cockell in agony!.