Bubis Heavyweight Top Ten June 2005

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Jun 2005, 06:06

1 V.Klitschko
2 Brewster
3 Byrd
4 Krasniqi
5 Valuev
6 Toney
7 Rahman
8 Ruiz
9 Sam
10 W.Klitschko

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 30 Jun 2005, 06:16

BubiScholz wrote:1 V.Klitschko
2 Brewster
3 Byrd
4 Krasniqi
5 Valuev
6 Toney
7 Rahman
8 Ruiz
9 Sam
10 W.Klitschko

Is that based on recent achievements or recent potential? Based on actualy achievements I'd say that's a bit too pro-European. Valuev has yet to prove he is better than Toney, Rahman and Ruiz - he could be better, but he hasn't confirmed that yet. I think you are rating Krasniqi a little too high based on his KO of Whitaker too. And Samil Sam? Not sure he's done much lately.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Jun 2005, 06:28

Whitaker proved what I have been praying here since have been posting here: the anerican heavyweight contenders are worse than the european. Whitaker was together with Barrett the highest rated guy. Nevertheless I have 5 Americans in my Top Ten so it´s balanced. Top 5 Europe and Top 5 USA.

states · Post by **states** » 30 Jun 2005, 06:30

I was just thinking that it's your most balanced top ten yet, Bubi.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 30 Jun 2005, 06:36

BubiScholz wrote:1 V.Klitschko
2 Brewster
3 Byrd
4 Krasniqi
5 Valuev
6 Toney
7 Rahman
8 Ruiz
9 Sam
10 W.Klitschko

Put Toney above Valeuv nd Krasniqi and Ruiz and Byrd above Vitali and thats not a bad one.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Jun 2005, 08:10

Why Byrd and Ruiz above Vitali? Byrd didn´t box this year and Ruiz lost and then got a ND...... Vitali was just injured but stays the best fighter in the division.

jab · Post by **jab** » 30 Jun 2005, 08:34

BubiScholz wrote:1 V.Klitschko
2 Brewster
3 Byrd
4 Krasniqi
5 Valuev
6 Toney
7 Rahman
8 Ruiz
9 Sam
10 W.Klitschko

1 Vitali
2 Wlad
3 Byrd
4 Rahman
5 Brewster
6 Barret
7 Toney
8 Samil Sam
9 Ruiz
10 Valuev

Based on potential combined with recent performances

I like Valuev a lot, but I think you put him a tad too high right now. He will rise in ratings, but he needs to have another fight with good result before we catapult him that high.
And I wouldnt say Krasniki is above Valuev in terms of expected result. Valuev would stream roll him and overwhelm him with his power. Whitaker was big but he doesnt have power and no jab. Valuev has these 2 things that Whitaker doesnt and the results of such a clash would be different.
The rest of the list is good.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Jun 2005, 08:38

Barrett has the same level as Whitaker has, Wlad is actually no #2 and Luan belongs in a Top Ten IMO.

jab · Post by **jab** » 30 Jun 2005, 09:13

You may be right: Wlad is very iffy. He is a Golota type fighter who could come out and beat the crap out of his foe or collapse like a sack of bricks.
But I have to give him the beneffit of the doubt and assume he gives his best. After all we assume the rest of the group give their best performances. No one expects to come to the ring and throw out their shoulder like Vitali against Byrd. Or to come stone dry like Golota and be caught early before they get in the groove. Can it happen? Yes, but it is not the things you expect.

I expect Wlad to beat Byrd and that should be enough to place him that high. The fact that he could stink the place out against other fighters will probably affect the later months ratings of this guy, but now since he is gunning for Byrd only, I leave him there at two. I dont expect anybody other than Vitali and Wlad to have an easy time with Byrd.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 30 Jun 2005, 09:26

Of the "prospects" I think Calvin Brock could argue for a place in a Top 10 now also. His win over McCline elevates him above the other unbeatens for me.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Jun 2005, 10:33

Hesketh wrote:Of the "prospects" I think Calvin Brock could argue for a place in a Top 10 now also. His win over McCline elevates him above the other unbeatens for me.

McCline isn´t better than Whitaker and all the other american contenders......Or do you miss Audley Harrison?

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 30 Jun 2005, 10:36

BubiScholz wrote:McCline isn´t better than Whitaker and all the other american contenders......Or do you miss Audley Harrison?

On the subject of McCline, I just feel he has been doing a bit more and fighting the better fighters in the past few years. Whitaker seemed to be making good progress a few years ago, then he lost (to McCline), and his career kind of stalled. McCline's career then picked up following his win over Lance.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Jun 2005, 10:45

Hesketh wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:McCline isn´t better than Whitaker and all the other american contenders......Or do you miss Audley Harrison?
I make a point about Harrison I get the piss taken for it? This isn't the Current Scene. You posted your Top 10 for discussion, and I am discussing it, it's a good subject.
Back to McCline, I just feel he has been doing more and fighting the better fighters in the past few years. Whitaker seemed to be making good progress, then he lost (to McCline), and his career kind of stalled.

keep cool, mate, was just joking. we were arguing about Harrison a year ago in multi-posts......... Harrison-Mania wakes me up

IMO McCline is no TopTen Man, maybe Top20 like Brock and Peter.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 30 Jun 2005, 10:47

BubiScholz wrote:keep cool, mate, was just joking. we were arguing about Harrison a year ago in multi-posts......... Harrison-Mania wakes me up

Yes I know, I was being a little over-sensitive, which is why I edited my post whilst you writing this.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 30 Jun 2005, 10:48

BubiScholz wrote:
Hesketh wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:McCline isn´t better than Whitaker and all the other american contenders......Or do you miss Audley Harrison?
I make a point about Harrison I get the piss taken for it? This isn't the Current Scene. You posted your Top 10 for discussion, and I am discussing it, it's a good subject.
Back to McCline, I just feel he has been doing more and fighting the better fighters in the past few years. Whitaker seemed to be making good progress, then he lost (to McCline), and his career kind of stalled.
keep cool, mate, was just joking. we were arguing about Harrison a year ago in multi-posts......... Harrison-Mania wakes me up

IMO McCline is no TopTen Man, maybe Top20 like Brock and Peter.

McCline is more a top ten fighter than Whitaker has ever been. McCline BEAT him. And lost narrowly to Byrd in a title fight.

And since losing to McCline, Whitaker has beaten.... Couser, Chasteen, Cole, Ahunaya, Tisdale before losing to Krasniqi. That is not a top ten heavyweight in anyones book.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 01 Jul 2005, 06:57

McCline is not better than the other american contenders. Whitaker was top ranked in any Top ten, even in any sanctioning body before the Eliminator was negotiated. Wide better than McCline. If he would have beaten Luan he would be the man.........

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 01 Jul 2005, 07:06

BubiScholz wrote:If he would have beaten Luan he would be the man.........

Hang on a second, if Whitaker had beaten Krasniqi he'd still be what he is, a big, punchy, lug. Lance has had his time as an HBO darling and failed, he is something like World no 20 and won't be getting any better now. If Krasniqi had lost he would have just slipped down the rankings, I don't think Lance would have risen. Lance is now one of those guys that if you can beat him you are into the next layer of heavies.
Now Krasniqi has beaten him, and beaten him by KO, he does deserve a Top 10 ranking, especially as he beat Samil Sam as well. But does Luan blow hot and cold? Since he beat Sam and Whitaker how did he manage lose to Saleta and draw with Hoffmann? I have not seen those fights.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 01 Jul 2005, 08:00

Every personal Top ten is debatable. I never ranked that much americans in my Top Ten because IMO they are all overrated and mor and more europeans are getting better and better. if they good ones would get more chances we would have more champs in Europe. Wait and see. Luan is the beginning.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 Jul 2005, 09:01

BubiScholz wrote:McCline is not better than the other american contenders. Whitaker was top ranked in any Top ten, even in any sanctioning body before the Eliminator was negotiated. Wide better than McCline. If he would have beaten Luan he would be the man.........

Come on. McCline beat Whitaker and lost in a close fight for the IBF title. That is a level above Whitaker just look at the guys I posted above who Whitaker has been fighting. They are 'D' level heavyweights at best.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 01 Jul 2005, 09:04

nickd wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:McCline is not better than the other american contenders. Whitaker was top ranked in any Top ten, even in any sanctioning body before the Eliminator was negotiated. Wide better than McCline. If he would have beaten Luan he would be the man.........
Come on. McCline beat Whitaker and lost in a close fight for the IBF title. That is a level above Whitaker just look at the guys I posted above who Whitaker has been fighting. They are 'D' level heavyweights at best.

Why was Whitaker #1 WBO and Top 5 in all other organisations? I didn´t put him there. I never ranked him in my Top Ten. He was talked up by the Americans. That´s all. Like a lot of other guys. What´s up with Golota. Is he even Top 30? He had for nothing 3 title fights in a row....

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 01 Jul 2005, 09:25

BubiScholz wrote:Why was Whitaker #1 WBO and Top 5 in all other organisations? I didn´t put him there.

Don't bring the world bodies rankings into it, they are shockingly inaccurate

Whitaker is realistically about world number 20, anyone less than a top 20 heavyweight he could probably beat them. McCline is a better fighter than Whitaker in my opinion, as evidenced by his beating Lance a while back, which was the fight that stopped Whitaker's little run on HBO. Lance really made some waves a while back KO'ing Robert Davis and Oleg Maskaev, but their subsequent losses have shown that not to be such a great feat after all. McCline is probably somewhere between world number 10 and 15.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 Jul 2005, 09:31

BubiScholz wrote:Why Byrd and Ruiz above Vitali? Byrd didn´t box this year and Ruiz lost and then got a ND...... Vitali was just injured but stays the best fighter in the division.

Vitali ain't the best. Byrd and Ruiz have fought better. Vitali has only fought Lewis and Byrd.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 01 Jul 2005, 09:35

Hesketh wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:Why was Whitaker #1 WBO and Top 5 in all other organisations? I didn´t put him there.
Don't bring the world bodies rankings into it, they are shockingly inaccurate
Whitaker is realistically about world number 20, anyone less than a top 20 heavyweight he could probably beat them. McCline is a better fighter than Whitaker in my opinion, as evidenced by his beating Lance a while back, which was the fight that stopped Whitaker's little run on HBO. Lance really made some waves a while back KO'ing Robert Davis and Oleg Maskaev, but their subsequent losses have shown that not to be such a great feat after all. McCline is probably somewhere between world number 10 and 15.

McCline has 1 good win, a close decision vs Whitaker. Whitaker has wins over Maskaev and Barrett. They are both no Top Ten. IMO they play in the same league like Williams or Skelton, maybe a bit better.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 Jul 2005, 09:38

Lou Savarese beat Whitacker who Tyson Ko'ed in 1 too so WBO probably just rates anyone high.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 01 Jul 2005, 09:43

McCline did beat Michael Grant in his comeback fight, and Shannon Briggs as well, plus he took Byrd close, he deserves some credit for those. He should have lost to Briggs it should be said, but Briggs fought lazy as always, and Jameel won even though he fought scared. Truth is both Jameel and Whitaker are pretty average guys considering their size, and not worth debating the difference.

Bubis Heavyweight Top Ten June 2005

Bubis Heavyweight Top Ten June 2005

Re: Bubis Heavyweight Top Ten June 2005

Re: Bubis Heavyweight Top Ten June 2005

Re: Bubis Heavyweight Top Ten June 2005