TOP 5 UPSETS OF ALL TIME....

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 09 Jul 2005, 00:31

latley there have been alot of questions of what if this guy boxed that guy and such, but looking back on real fights, and real matches, what are your top 5 greatest heavyweight upsets of all time??

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 09 Jul 2005, 00:41

Douglas-Tyson....something like a 40 - 1 underdog...pretty tough to find bigger odds than those without going a horse race...

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 09 Jul 2005, 02:46

douglas/tyson
baer/braddock
schmeling/louis
clay/liston
corbett/sullivan

.....sometimes perception by the boxing fraternity plays into the upset factor as much as betting odds....i think the above are good choices based on a combination of these factors. note that only schmeling/louis was a non-title fight.

louis/walcott 1 could go in with an asterisk.....as walcott didn't officially win....but he came so close and so many think he did....remarkable because he was considered such a huge underdog the new york boxing commission didn't think he was a fit opponent and wanted to make the match a ten round exhibition until nat fleischer....very powerful then..insisted that every time a heavyweight champion steps into the ring it is a title match as there can't be an over-the-weight one.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 09 Jul 2005, 11:58

nice list i had alot of those on myt list.... my top 5 upsets in order would have to be...

Braddock def. Baer
Douglas def. Tyson
Tunney def. Dempsey
Clay def. Liston
Spinks def. Holmes

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 09 Jul 2005, 13:18

Jaclem wrote:
schmeling/louis

louis/walcott 1 could go in with an asterisk.....

Just out of sheer curiosity...do you know what the odds were on two of those fights you mention?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 10 Jul 2005, 02:56

....sweet science...i'm moving some books and magazines around now so i can 't do much research, but i'll try to find those odds soon.

..interesting sidenote to odds...when louis was champion there was very little betting on who would win...louis was so dominant...the real action was on in which round the knockout would take place..with some heavy betting on whether the fight would go the distance....which the longshot bettors would bet on.

sometimes odds....or sportswriters predictions had a negative effect on the gate. when they fought for percentages, tommy farr was especially unhappy because he was given little chance to win or to make a contest of it, thus hurting the gate, and consequentally his purse...if they had predicted the good fight he put up and going the distance the gate would have been higher.

Richie Aprille rules · Post by **Richie Aprille rules** » 16 Jul 2005, 14:08

1st place for Tyson - Douglas, no doubt about it.

Curry - Honeygham
Chavez - Randall I
Brown - Norris I

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Jul 2005, 14:24

how about top 5 upsets..not just heavyweight?

tagjohnson · Post by **tagjohnson** » 16 Jul 2005, 14:27

Tyson/Douglas HAS to be number 1. You just can't argue with 40 to 1 odds. But c'mon guys how about Liston/Clay? People were actually worried about Ali's safety. And might I mention Spinks/Ali? Leon had seven fights under his belt including a draw with Scott Ledoux and was a 7 to 1 underdog.

6 Pack · Post by **6 Pack** » 16 Jul 2005, 14:27

Rory McCloskey wrote:how about top 5 upsets..not just heavyweight?

THere is more than just heavyweights?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Jul 2005, 18:07

i would like to add one upset that fails to be mentioned a lot that i thinks one of the all time upsets.

ken norton vs ali I

here was a guy, norton, who had not beaten any top ten contenders and was fighting fights for $ 300 against club fighters and the only contender he faced was jose luis garcia who knocked him out. heres muhammad ali, with one loss and 31 who still hasnt shown drastic signs of aging yet and was coming off 10 straight easy wins against top contenders. the promoter was afriad the fight wouldnt sell because it was going to be so easy for ali and almost called it off. then norton goes out and beats muhammad ali. HUGE UPSET IN MY OPINION.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 16 Jul 2005, 18:35

Nunn V Toney

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 17 Jul 2005, 02:57

.....non-heavyweights......turpin over robinson is one that comes to mind.

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 17 Jul 2005, 03:01

How about Battling Siki-Georges Carpentier? Despite the fix that was in place, Carpentier was heavily favored.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 17 Jul 2005, 03:11

Top 5 upsets of all time???

Well,
1. Buster Douglas KO10 Mike Tyson....Until this day, I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!

2. Evander Holyfield TKO11 Mike Tyson...The ODDS before the fight was 25 to 1. Smoe people feared of Holyfield's heart condition and being washed up

3. Leon Spinks W15 Muhammad Ali...What was Ali doing for the first 14 rounds??? Spinks just 7 fights???

4. Frankie Randall W12 Julio Cesar Chavez...Inspiring performance by Randall...Who the hell or where did he come from???

5. James J. Braddock W15 Max Baer...Cinderella Man becomes Heavyweight Champion of the World.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 18 Jul 2005, 11:01

In recent times

Honeyghan - Curry
Spinks - Holmes
Holyfield - Tyson
Douglas - Tyson
Laing - Duran
Cruz - McGuigan
Smith - Witherspoon

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 18 Jul 2005, 22:28

Schmeling v louis would have to be one of the biggest of all time surely
and of course Douglas v tyson
and Ali v liston, or even ali v foreman

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 19 Jul 2005, 00:34

ali vs foreman... no not at all

dan1030 · Post by **dan1030** » 20 Jul 2005, 03:21

At heavyweight, I actually think Schmeling - Louis was a bigger deal historically than Douglas - Tyson, and maybe Braddock - Baer, too.

Of course, if you're talking about betting odds and hype of the moment, nothing was a bigger upset that the Douglas fight, but those odds where just plain stupid. I remember a handfull of decent boxing writers back then saying for a year before his loss that Tyson was fading fast and getting sloppy in the ring--though even they didn't pick Douglas to be the guy to beat him. Casual fight fans still thought Mike was unbeatable, but for those who paid attention to his fights (less and less defense and combination punching all the time) and the stories coming out of his training camps (less and less actual training going on; no actual trainers left--those clowns didn't even have an enswell in the corner vs. Douglas!), the shock wasn't that he lost about that time (I was picking Holyfiled to do it in his next fight) but that a guy who'd never shown all that much heart in the past would be the guy to do it. I've never really thought Tyson deserved to be rated more than 7-1 or 8-1 (still a big favorite) over a guy of Douglas' level back then.

Schmeling, on the other hand, exposed a flaw in Louis that I've never heard of any contemporary analysts pointing out (though I could be wrong), and beat a great fighter who seemed to be at his absolute best. He also did so when everyone thought he was more-or-less washed up by then, and did so without ever being hurt in the fight.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Jul 2005, 14:17

sweet, off the top of my head, i believe louis was a 4 to 1 favorite over schmelling and louis was a 21-1 favorite over walcott

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 20 Jul 2005, 16:38

how can u possibly say that schmeling over louis had a more historical significance then braddock over baer????????

dan1030 · Post by **dan1030** » 21 Jul 2005, 15:34

Rory McCloskey wrote:how can u possibly say that schmeling over louis had a more historical significance then braddock over baer????????

If you're talking about my post, I guess what I meant was that Baer had a reputation for coming into fights unfocused at times, while Louis didn't (so there was always the chance that he just wasn't taking Braddock seriously enough in preparation for the fight), and in retrospect--though obviously no one at the time could know it was going to happen--since he broke a bone in each hand early in the fight it's really no surprise that he couldn't mount much of an offense against Braddock.

So, expectations for Baer could have been lower that for Louis, since no one could be sure which Baer would show up that night, and his loss was easy to understand in light of injuries sustained during the bout. Maybe "historically significant" isn't the right way to put it--since I'm still talking about upsets, which is an expectations game. But what I meant by a historical context is that I think the odds on Tyson-Douglas were way too long (in retrospect) and that the loss of Baer was easier to understand (also in retrospect). Hence, Schmeling - Louis as my pick at heavyweight.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 22 Jul 2005, 01:53

..dan1030....in terms of the general public louis schmeling had a huge impact and the upset was a major one....and it was big in a historical context. prior to this fight some people considered louis unbeatable....a writer whose name i can't recall (van every?) wrote a book titled "joe louis...man and superfighter"...or something like that..can't recall the title either....which was written before the schemling fight...when louis was just on his WAY to the title. plus..although the nazi factor that haunted schmeling was not as strong as in their rematch...it was still there. a lot of people who weren't rabid boxing fans were interested in this one and it got a big play in the papers off the sports pages. plus....louis was undefeated...had been belting over everybody and schmeling was considered washed up and not that great a fighter even in his prime. too add to the upset factor, max had the bomber in trouble from the first round when he scored a knockdown...i think it was the first time louis had hit the canvas...and then knocked him out. again, the nazi factor was so strong that it enabled louis to get the shot at braddock instead of schmeling.

baer had lost some fights....and some were ones he was expected to win...and braddock was coming off a big win.

now...no question the braddock/baer fight was a huge upset...probably the biggest up to its time in heavyweight TITLE history....

but....the louis/schmeling fight wasn't even FOR the title...yet it had more news coverage than many that were.

...so i'd say it was just the slightest bit less than max and jimmy...very very slightest....and certainly the biggest non-title one.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 22 Jul 2005, 11:25

dan1030 wrote:
Of course, if you're talking about betting odds and hype of the moment, nothing was a bigger upset that the Douglas fight, but those odds where just plain stupid.

...Damn!...why didn't you tell us back then?...

...actually, I did ask a bookie friend of mine about that fight at the time...he said no line...wouldn't take the action on 'mismatches' like that...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 24 Jul 2005, 13:25

Tyson vs Douglas

Michael Nunn vs Steve Little (WBA Super Middle title).

Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling

Don Curry vs Lloyd Honeyghun

Michael Moorer vs George Foreman

Some other notable ones

Omar Sheika vs Tony Booth

Chris Johnson vs Herol Graham

Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall

Lennox Lewis vs Hasim Rahman

Thomas Hearns vs Iran Barkley 1

Barry McGuigan vs Steve Cruz

TOP 5 UPSETS OF ALL TIME....

TOP 5 UPSETS OF ALL TIME....

good list

IMHO