Jim Jeffries vs Rocky Marciano...
Jim Jeffries vs Rocky Marciano...
This would be a brutal war!... I pick Jeffries to win. He was possibly the toughest of all the Heavyweight champions and would just be too strong and durable for Rocky... Jeff by late round ko......
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THE DANCING MASTER
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 96
- Joined: 02 Jan 2004, 15:31
In the computer tournament that was broadcast on radio back in 1968 Marciano defeated Jeffries by a TKO in the 14th round IIRC. Jeffries kayoed Jersey Joe Walcott and then beat Ali (they called him Clay) by a decision. Ali sued, and that set up the Marciano-Ali computer fight they filmed and was shown in theaters in 1970. Marciano won the radio tournament by knocking out Jack Dempsey in the final bout.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
how was jeffires the toughest of heavyuweights??? did he split open his nose with blood pouring out of it and the fight close to being stopped, he came out the next round and knocked out the man???
too strong???? BOXING ISNT ABOUT SRENTGH. ok yes he did have strenth. but not a heck of a lot more than marciano. ur only real argument is size.
marciano had more power, had more heart, and stamina, was more aggresive. marciano was also a better body puncer.
u wanna go into competetion??? marciano faced much better competetion than jeffries.
jeffries had only 22 fights???? how could u think so highly of a fighter. jeffries foguht a draw to a tough and experienced but never great joe choynski. then he knocked out peter jackson who hadnt fought in 7 years and was way past his best. he knocked out bob ftsimmons to win the title, but fitzimmons hadnt foguht in 2 years and was by now showing sings of aging. jeffries did beat a notible challenger in tom sharkey, but tom sharkey was a 180lb and 5'8 that didnt have a lot of strentgh and wasnt a great heavywieght and never won a title.
he was outboxed the first 20 rounds by a way past his prime james corbett and jeffries then knocked him out in 23rd round. but a prime corbett probablywould have beat him. jeffries managed to take them oiut once more when both fitz and corbett looked like they were about to drop dead. then jeffries fought guys like jack munroe and jack finngean who had a losing record and munroe had only 9 fights.
also jeffires kept his hands low and was hit pretty hard by fitz and corbett. i think maricano would have clobbered him with a barrage of punches and knocked out jeffries with a right to the jaw.
Marciano KO 6
too strong???? BOXING ISNT ABOUT SRENTGH. ok yes he did have strenth. but not a heck of a lot more than marciano. ur only real argument is size.
marciano had more power, had more heart, and stamina, was more aggresive. marciano was also a better body puncer.
u wanna go into competetion??? marciano faced much better competetion than jeffries.
jeffries had only 22 fights???? how could u think so highly of a fighter. jeffries foguht a draw to a tough and experienced but never great joe choynski. then he knocked out peter jackson who hadnt fought in 7 years and was way past his best. he knocked out bob ftsimmons to win the title, but fitzimmons hadnt foguht in 2 years and was by now showing sings of aging. jeffries did beat a notible challenger in tom sharkey, but tom sharkey was a 180lb and 5'8 that didnt have a lot of strentgh and wasnt a great heavywieght and never won a title.
he was outboxed the first 20 rounds by a way past his prime james corbett and jeffries then knocked him out in 23rd round. but a prime corbett probablywould have beat him. jeffries managed to take them oiut once more when both fitz and corbett looked like they were about to drop dead. then jeffries fought guys like jack munroe and jack finngean who had a losing record and munroe had only 9 fights.
also jeffires kept his hands low and was hit pretty hard by fitz and corbett. i think maricano would have clobbered him with a barrage of punches and knocked out jeffries with a right to the jaw.
Marciano KO 6
Jeffries strength and toughness are well known... when he fought Sharkey he won despite having a broken collarbone. During his reign Marciano was compared to Jeffries by boxing men who had seen Jeffries fight.
Corbett gave Jeffries trouble but he would equally have given Marciano just as much trouble too.
Corbett gave Jeffries trouble but he would equally have given Marciano just as much trouble too.
I think Jeffries would win this one by KO. If Walcott at 200 could drop Marciano, a 215lb slugging Jeffries with more power and strength would wear Rocky down. Jeffries had a good enough chin to take Rocky's punches.
Jeffries had a good amateur career before he became a fighter, hence the lower number of fights because he was a Top Contender almost from his 1st year as a pro. The number of fights argument is weak. Once Marciano became a Ring Top 10 contender (1949), how many fights did he have? Heavyweights don't fight much once they become Top 10 contenders. That's just how heavyweights go about it.
How can you say Marciano is better in every category? Jeffries had great power, more than Marciano. Joe Choynski not great? Ask James J. Corbett how great Choynski was. Why do you think Fitzsimmons was showing signs of aging? He won the world LH championship after this fight!!
You say that Corbett was leading Jeffries before getting KO'd. Wasn't Walcott outboxing Marciano before Susie Q landed? That's the nature of heavyweight boxing. Neither Rocky nor Jeffries were classic boxers. I favor Jeffries in this matchup.
Jeffries had a good amateur career before he became a fighter, hence the lower number of fights because he was a Top Contender almost from his 1st year as a pro. The number of fights argument is weak. Once Marciano became a Ring Top 10 contender (1949), how many fights did he have? Heavyweights don't fight much once they become Top 10 contenders. That's just how heavyweights go about it.
How can you say Marciano is better in every category? Jeffries had great power, more than Marciano. Joe Choynski not great? Ask James J. Corbett how great Choynski was. Why do you think Fitzsimmons was showing signs of aging? He won the world LH championship after this fight!!
You say that Corbett was leading Jeffries before getting KO'd. Wasn't Walcott outboxing Marciano before Susie Q landed? That's the nature of heavyweight boxing. Neither Rocky nor Jeffries were classic boxers. I favor Jeffries in this matchup.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
im pretty sure walcott was a better boxer and fighter than james corbett. and i would rate walcotts left hook just as hard as jeffries.
SIZE DOESNT MATTER. marciano would have landed blows on jeffries that he never experienced in his life. he never came close to fighting someone that hit as hard as marciano.
jeffries is the most overate d heavyweight in history in my opinion. i rate corbett over him.
jeffries did not have more power than marciano.
marciano beat walcott, charles, and moore all better opponents than jeffries ever beat.
SIZE DOESNT MATTER. marciano would have landed blows on jeffries that he never experienced in his life. he never came close to fighting someone that hit as hard as marciano.
jeffries is the most overate d heavyweight in history in my opinion. i rate corbett over him.
jeffries did not have more power than marciano.
marciano beat walcott, charles, and moore all better opponents than jeffries ever beat.
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Sweet Scientist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 13 Oct 2003, 18:19
Jeffries was a bigger, stronger version of Marciano...perhaps a bit more agile...I've always felt the old time fighters were tougher, harder fighters...especially Jeffries who was something like 6'2 or 6'3, around 215-220 pounds...that size would fit right in any era...he went 25 rounds in some fights, something very few who came after him could be counted on to do...can you imagine a modern fighter going 25 rounds?...I'm not sure I completely believe his record...many of the old time fights could have been easily missed...but if you do accept his record as close, he drew with Choynski with only 5 or 6 fights experience, none of the modern guys fought someone that good, that early...and they went 20 rounds!...most guys haven't graduated from 6 rounders after 10 fights...Jim Jeffries was ranked very high by every boxing authority before WW II...since then, we have had a number of great heavywieghts who have gotten far more coverage than Jeffries, which causes many to overlook his career...I think he'd beat Marciano...just as tough...bigger...a viscious left hook...and the old timers who saw them both live all picked Jeffries over the Rock...Jeffries was a good defensive fighter as well, with the stamina to outlast many opponents...and Jeff was undefeated too, until he made a comeback after a 6 year layoff against one of the greatest fighter ever...
One of the best physical specimines I've had the opportunity to see was Kenny Norton...Jeffries physical appearence in numerous pictures reminds me of a white Kenny Norton, perhaps slightly stockier...(I'm not comparing boxing ability with Norton, just physical appearence...Jeffries was better than Norton)...Jeffries would have beat many of the all time greats...I consider him to be #7 all time...and I may be 'short changing' him...
One of the best physical specimines I've had the opportunity to see was Kenny Norton...Jeffries physical appearence in numerous pictures reminds me of a white Kenny Norton, perhaps slightly stockier...(I'm not comparing boxing ability with Norton, just physical appearence...Jeffries was better than Norton)...Jeffries would have beat many of the all time greats...I consider him to be #7 all time...and I may be 'short changing' him...
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
i cant believe this once again no respect for marciano, a man who wasnt even hurt by walcotts and moores punches.
marciano would take jeffries apart and so would a lot of other heavyweights.
its a jk they had jeffries beating walccott and ali. a joke. ali called jeffries the slowest and clumsiest heavyweight in history.
what makes u think jeffries could beat marciano let alone knock him out
marciano would take jeffries apart and so would a lot of other heavyweights.
its a jk they had jeffries beating walccott and ali. a joke. ali called jeffries the slowest and clumsiest heavyweight in history.
what makes u think jeffries could beat marciano let alone knock him out
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Sweet Scientist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 13 Oct 2003, 18:19
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i cant believe this once again no respect for marciano, a man who wasnt even hurt by walcotts and moores punches.
marciano would take jeffries apart and so would a lot of other heavyweights.
its a jk they had jeffries beating walccott and ali. a joke. ali called jeffries the slowest and clumsiest heavyweight in history.
what makes u think jeffries could beat marciano let alone knock him out
If he wasn't hurt by Moore and Walcott how come they both floored him and cut him up???......
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
i knew u wouldnt think marciano would win. u hate marciano u would never pick him to win over other great heavyweights
tell me this would u give marciano more respect if he was 6'3 and 220 lbs?? is that the way u want a heavyweight to be. or did u just not like marcianos style??
he used his size to his advantage, go watch some of his fights and ull understand, ir maybe u wont because u never give marciano any praise.
u either rip into the heavyweights u dont like. its not that u think marciano will lose, its u want him to lose. or u kiss the heavyweights u like asses.
i dgive respect to all heavyweights and always try to boster the ones who arnts give then right respect.
its all about size with guys like u.
tell me this would u give marciano more respect if he was 6'3 and 220 lbs?? is that the way u want a heavyweight to be. or did u just not like marcianos style??
he used his size to his advantage, go watch some of his fights and ull understand, ir maybe u wont because u never give marciano any praise.
u either rip into the heavyweights u dont like. its not that u think marciano will lose, its u want him to lose. or u kiss the heavyweights u like asses.
i dgive respect to all heavyweights and always try to boster the ones who arnts give then right respect.
its all about size with guys like u.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
It's not just about size. But when two fighters have the same style, throwing hard punches with tremendous leverage and always going forward, and have had great careers, it's not unnatural to think that Jeffries would beat Marciano because he's bigger.
It is not disrespectful to say that a great heavyweight like Jeffries would beat Marciano. It's not like we're saying Tommy Morrison would!
You have your views on Marciano and no one's attacking them. But please don't ask us to go watch Marciano on tape. This is the Boxers of the Past forum and most of us have seen Marciano fight many times. This is just debate with respectful posts all around and we happen to disagree.
It is not disrespectful to say that a great heavyweight like Jeffries would beat Marciano. It's not like we're saying Tommy Morrison would!
You have your views on Marciano and no one's attacking them. But please don't ask us to go watch Marciano on tape. This is the Boxers of the Past forum and most of us have seen Marciano fight many times. This is just debate with respectful posts all around and we happen to disagree.
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
BB you really are showing your lack of info on this era of fighters. First off, Tom Sharkey was a great fighter and physically Marciano's twin, plus from pictures he had much thicker legs. How you say he didn't have strength really boggles the mind . . .where do you come up with this?BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:how was jeffires the toughest of heavyuweights??? did he split open his nose with blood pouring out of it and the fight close to being stopped, he came out the next round and knocked out the man???
too strong???? BOXING ISNT ABOUT SRENTGH. ok yes he did have strenth. but not a heck of a lot more than marciano. ur only real argument is size.
marciano had more power, had more heart, and stamina, was more aggresive. marciano was also a better body puncer.
u wanna go into competetion??? marciano faced much better competetion than jeffries.
jeffries had only 22 fights???? how could u think so highly of a fighter. jeffries foguht a draw to a tough and experienced but never great joe choynski. then he knocked out peter jackson who hadnt fought in 7 years and was way past his best. he knocked out bob ftsimmons to win the title, but fitzimmons hadnt foguht in 2 years and was by now showing sings of aging. jeffries did beat a notible challenger in tom sharkey, but tom sharkey was a 180lb and 5'8 that didnt have a lot of strentgh and wasnt a great heavywieght and never won a title.
he was outboxed the first 20 rounds by a way past his prime james corbett and jeffries then knocked him out in 23rd round. but a prime corbett probablywould have beat him. jeffries managed to take them oiut once more when both fitz and corbett looked like they were about to drop dead. then jeffries fought guys like jack munroe and jack finngean who had a losing record and munroe had only 9 fights.
also jeffires kept his hands low and was hit pretty hard by fitz and corbett. i think maricano would have clobbered him with a barrage of punches and knocked out jeffries with a right to the jaw.
Marciano KO 6
How was Corbett "way" past his prime when he fought Jefferies. Past his peak sure, but he was still dangerous and a master boxer.
The majority of Jefferies's opponents have extreamly incomplete records. Hank Griffith and Jack Munroe were fine fighters and top HWs. You can bet Munroe had much more then 9 fights when he fought Jim.
And how can you say Rocky had more stamina when Jefferies was engaged in 20 round wars???
I don't feel comfortable making a pick since Jefferies was in my mind a transitional period HW who would have had to make adjustments to his fight plan under modern rules, but in 15 rounds going by their strengths, with a gun to my head I would have to pick Jefferies to prevail in a classic.
re
I certainly don't think it is a case of no one giving Marciano credit...it's just like someone stated, both Jeffries and Marciano were pretty much the same kind of fighters, only Jeffries had better skills overall and was quite a bit bigger than Rocky, not to mention just as tough and if not just as well conditioned, very close to it...all the intangibles stack up against Marciano, which probably would not mean a thing if they were two totally different kinds of fighters!
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Sweet Scientist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 13 Oct 2003, 18:19
Well...I can't speak for others...but let me tell you this...I loved Marciano ...seeing him on TV when I was a kid, seeing him introduced at big fights, watching him do color commentary on some fights...seeing him in an occaisional interview...he was a true American Hero...BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i knew u wouldnt think marciano would win. u hate marciano u would never pick him to win over other great heavyweights
...but that just doesn't mean (no matter how much you wish otherwise) that he could beat all these guys you match him up with on this forum...Rocky was a great guy, Rocky was a great fighter...but there were others greater than he...and, quite frankly, I'm sorry that disappoints you...Take Rocky Marciano for what he was...don't make him out to be something he wasn't...he just doesn't match up on paper to many of the all time greats...sure, maybe he would come through with an upset or 2...but he wasn't the 2nd or 3rd greatest heavyweight...there were others far more skilled and far more successful (even though they weren't undefeated)...there were others much bigger with more skill...there were others bigger with a better punch...bigger isn't better...but when you add skill to bigger...or a better punch to bigger...then it just doesn't add up that Rocky could beat all those guys...Rocky wasn't the only fighter to have stamina...or a good right hand...or a big 'heart'...there were others, man...and I think maybe you 'disrespect' them...
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
i never disrespect any other fighter. and i do have some knowledge on the old timers.
there are legit reasons for marciano beating all these guys. and i dont pick marciano to beat everyonew, but i do pick marciano to beat a lot more than u do. u think hes one of those fighters that is too small and lacks skill to compete with larger heavyweights. well marciano did have skill in his own unique way. and he would chop down those bigger heavyweights with his strentgh and punching power. marciano did have defense, he blocked body shots with his arms and could fight out of many different stances. he was hard to hit cleanly. is it because he was 5'11 and 185lbs???? u pick out the littlest flaws u canwith marciano, "o he beat men past their prime, o he was decked by walcott and moore." ok just to show u those are bad arguements, wasnt ali nearly Kayoed by henry cooper, and doug jones gave him a tough fight. thats during his prime. im not going to mention how manyclose fights and robberies he had in the 70s. no disrepect to ali, i rate him # 2. and eve joe louis the greatest heavyweight champ of all time. no one ever attacks him for getting decked by james braddock, or buddy baer, or two ton tony galento, or while he still had some fight left he nearly got beat twice by jersey joe walcott. and how bouut foreman losing to jimmy young????? or dempsey getting kaoyed by firpo if he wasnt helped back in the ring, or holmes nearly losing to norton in holmes prime and getting a gift decision over witherspoon and then rakcing up title defenses over bums??
u pick out every little thing for marciano but never these guys. its my opinion that a lot of u give marciano respect as a champion and his accomplishments, but give him no credit at all, and you think he wouldnt stand a chance against other all time greats.
well THATS A JOKE. peopel say even though they put him on the top ten list, he couldnt beat the 9. bullshit. they say he could only beat norton he didnt have the stlye to beat other greats??? how would u know. why dont u go interview marcianos opponents. how bout u interview some hisorians who floowed marciano closely. HE DID HAVE THE STYLE OT BEAT ALOT OF GREATS AND OTHER EXPETS AND FIGHTERS KNOW THAT JUST NOT A LOT OF U GUYS. ive seen so much talk on here about how immortal holmes and jack johnson and foreman are. "holmes would beat ali" yeah only when ali had parkinson. ali would shut out holmes. jack johnson would decision joe louis and outbox and beat all the other all time greats. u really realized johnsons true gifts through that foggy footage?? u have really good eyes. louis would KO johnson. foreman would clobberr guys like marciano, and dempsey, tyson because he killed frazier. they are not the same as frazier, they all have a little different style and frazier wasnt even in his prime he was 10 lbs to heavy. if foreman didnt get them early, he would be screwed, and foreman had clubbing brute power but never short snap power like tyson marciano and dempsey. those guys could dget inside and take him apart. is foremans chin all that good???
i think u guys give holmes and foreman and the johnsons more credit because they are big guys. marciano and dempsey are under 200 lbs. so what???? and dont tell me its not about size cause every argument u make against me its "MARCIANOS TOO SMALL, OR JEFFRIES IS WAY TOO BIG AND STRONG". u dont realize just cause their 185lbs doesnt mean they cant hit as hard as a 225 lb. in fact they hit harder.
marciano did have more power than jeffries and so did dempsey. dempsey would have knocked out jeffries.
finally, the only reason i argue in marcianos favor so much is no one else does. its always just me, everyone gives him the lack of credit to beat other all time greats. marciano had the strentgh, power, heart, toughness, and skill in his own way to beatr other greats. if joe frazier was getting this much of lack of credit which hasnt happneed on here, id be all over ur cases saying frazier would defintely beat this guy. i have noticed the lack of credit for tyson and it pissed me off and im starting to get more involved in him, because in his prime he would have taken almost any heavyweight in history including marciano, and foreman.
have a nice night, talk in the morning
there are legit reasons for marciano beating all these guys. and i dont pick marciano to beat everyonew, but i do pick marciano to beat a lot more than u do. u think hes one of those fighters that is too small and lacks skill to compete with larger heavyweights. well marciano did have skill in his own unique way. and he would chop down those bigger heavyweights with his strentgh and punching power. marciano did have defense, he blocked body shots with his arms and could fight out of many different stances. he was hard to hit cleanly. is it because he was 5'11 and 185lbs???? u pick out the littlest flaws u canwith marciano, "o he beat men past their prime, o he was decked by walcott and moore." ok just to show u those are bad arguements, wasnt ali nearly Kayoed by henry cooper, and doug jones gave him a tough fight. thats during his prime. im not going to mention how manyclose fights and robberies he had in the 70s. no disrepect to ali, i rate him # 2. and eve joe louis the greatest heavyweight champ of all time. no one ever attacks him for getting decked by james braddock, or buddy baer, or two ton tony galento, or while he still had some fight left he nearly got beat twice by jersey joe walcott. and how bouut foreman losing to jimmy young????? or dempsey getting kaoyed by firpo if he wasnt helped back in the ring, or holmes nearly losing to norton in holmes prime and getting a gift decision over witherspoon and then rakcing up title defenses over bums??
u pick out every little thing for marciano but never these guys. its my opinion that a lot of u give marciano respect as a champion and his accomplishments, but give him no credit at all, and you think he wouldnt stand a chance against other all time greats.
well THATS A JOKE. peopel say even though they put him on the top ten list, he couldnt beat the 9. bullshit. they say he could only beat norton he didnt have the stlye to beat other greats??? how would u know. why dont u go interview marcianos opponents. how bout u interview some hisorians who floowed marciano closely. HE DID HAVE THE STYLE OT BEAT ALOT OF GREATS AND OTHER EXPETS AND FIGHTERS KNOW THAT JUST NOT A LOT OF U GUYS. ive seen so much talk on here about how immortal holmes and jack johnson and foreman are. "holmes would beat ali" yeah only when ali had parkinson. ali would shut out holmes. jack johnson would decision joe louis and outbox and beat all the other all time greats. u really realized johnsons true gifts through that foggy footage?? u have really good eyes. louis would KO johnson. foreman would clobberr guys like marciano, and dempsey, tyson because he killed frazier. they are not the same as frazier, they all have a little different style and frazier wasnt even in his prime he was 10 lbs to heavy. if foreman didnt get them early, he would be screwed, and foreman had clubbing brute power but never short snap power like tyson marciano and dempsey. those guys could dget inside and take him apart. is foremans chin all that good???
i think u guys give holmes and foreman and the johnsons more credit because they are big guys. marciano and dempsey are under 200 lbs. so what???? and dont tell me its not about size cause every argument u make against me its "MARCIANOS TOO SMALL, OR JEFFRIES IS WAY TOO BIG AND STRONG". u dont realize just cause their 185lbs doesnt mean they cant hit as hard as a 225 lb. in fact they hit harder.
marciano did have more power than jeffries and so did dempsey. dempsey would have knocked out jeffries.
finally, the only reason i argue in marcianos favor so much is no one else does. its always just me, everyone gives him the lack of credit to beat other all time greats. marciano had the strentgh, power, heart, toughness, and skill in his own way to beatr other greats. if joe frazier was getting this much of lack of credit which hasnt happneed on here, id be all over ur cases saying frazier would defintely beat this guy. i have noticed the lack of credit for tyson and it pissed me off and im starting to get more involved in him, because in his prime he would have taken almost any heavyweight in history including marciano, and foreman.
have a nice night, talk in the morning
re
>>>joe louis, no one ever attacks him for getting decked by james braddock, or buddy baer, or two ton tony galento, or while he still had some fight left he nearly got beat twice by jersey joe walcott?????<<<<
Actually, I just mentioned that very thing several hours ago in another thread, about Louis being knocked down several times, but it doesn't change my view of him!. BB---you need to take things a little easier or you'll have ulcers and high blood pressure before you're out of college. I like Marciano a lot...he would certainly probably be in my all-time favorites list, but there are just some things that make more sense than others...Marciano having a chance against a Holmes, yes, but he wouldn't outbox Holmes...against Dempsey...great fight, but I give the edge to Dempsey because he was a lot faster and hit just as hard and had a lot of the same qualities that Marciano had...Johnson, Marciano stood a punchers chance and that's about it, he could never outbox Johnson because Johnson was way too skilled...Jeffries, well since he really used his size to his advantage and also because he possed most of the exact same qualities that Marciano it would be hard to choose the smaller man when the fighters are so much alike. Louis, just too good overall in his prime in my opinion. Sure, Marciano stood a punchers chance with anyone he stepped in the ring with, but then again so did George Foreman. Basically it's all just opinion anyway and no one is right about any of the mythical match-ups, but that's where adding all the intangibles comes into the arguement...some opinions just put forth a better case than others, but it's certainly nothing to get too upset about.
Actually, I just mentioned that very thing several hours ago in another thread, about Louis being knocked down several times, but it doesn't change my view of him!. BB---you need to take things a little easier or you'll have ulcers and high blood pressure before you're out of college. I like Marciano a lot...he would certainly probably be in my all-time favorites list, but there are just some things that make more sense than others...Marciano having a chance against a Holmes, yes, but he wouldn't outbox Holmes...against Dempsey...great fight, but I give the edge to Dempsey because he was a lot faster and hit just as hard and had a lot of the same qualities that Marciano had...Johnson, Marciano stood a punchers chance and that's about it, he could never outbox Johnson because Johnson was way too skilled...Jeffries, well since he really used his size to his advantage and also because he possed most of the exact same qualities that Marciano it would be hard to choose the smaller man when the fighters are so much alike. Louis, just too good overall in his prime in my opinion. Sure, Marciano stood a punchers chance with anyone he stepped in the ring with, but then again so did George Foreman. Basically it's all just opinion anyway and no one is right about any of the mythical match-ups, but that's where adding all the intangibles comes into the arguement...some opinions just put forth a better case than others, but it's certainly nothing to get too upset about.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
and im not trying to put down joe louis or ali. i think their the two greatest. im just trying to boster fights like marciano dempsey and tyson and make people think twice before htey make predictions.
i definetely didnt say marciano would beat louis or ali. in fact i dont think marciano could beat a prime tyson. im jsut trying to tell uguys to think before u go saying a huge powerful guy like liston or foreman would clobber the smalelr heavyweights.
and i think marciano had more powe than jeffries and jeffries iddnt have that good of a defense and his chin was never really tested. jeffries also never faced as hard a hitterl iek the rock. i think dempsey would knock out jeffries also.
barry was jeffries ever floored???
i definetely didnt say marciano would beat louis or ali. in fact i dont think marciano could beat a prime tyson. im jsut trying to tell uguys to think before u go saying a huge powerful guy like liston or foreman would clobber the smalelr heavyweights.
and i think marciano had more powe than jeffries and jeffries iddnt have that good of a defense and his chin was never really tested. jeffries also never faced as hard a hitterl iek the rock. i think dempsey would knock out jeffries also.
barry was jeffries ever floored???
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Sweet Scientist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 13 Oct 2003, 18:19
Don't worry kid...it's not you...it's the rest of the world...BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i never disrespect any other fighter. and i do have some knowledge on the old timers.
there are legit reasons for marciano beating all these guys. and i dont pick marciano to beat everyonew, but i do pick marciano to beat a lot more than u do. u think hes one of those fighters that is too small and lacks skill to compete with larger heavyweights. well marciano did have skill in his own unique way. and he would chop down those bigger heavyweights with his strentgh and punching power. marciano did have defense, he blocked body shots with his arms and could fight out of many different stances. he was hard to hit cleanly. is it because he was 5'11 and 185lbs???? u pick out the littlest flaws u canwith marciano, "o he beat men past their prime, o he was decked by walcott and moore." ok just to show u those are bad arguements, wasnt ali nearly Kayoed by henry cooper, and doug jones gave him a tough fight. thats during his prime. im not going to mention how manyclose fights and robberies he had in the 70s. no disrepect to ali, i rate him # 2. and eve joe louis the greatest heavyweight champ of all time. no one ever attacks him for getting decked by james braddock, or buddy baer, or two ton tony galento, or while he still had some fight left he nearly got beat twice by jersey joe walcott. and how bouut foreman losing to jimmy young????? or dempsey getting kaoyed by firpo if he wasnt helped back in the ring, or holmes nearly losing to norton in holmes prime and getting a gift decision over witherspoon and then rakcing up title defenses over bums??
u pick out every little thing for marciano but never these guys. its my opinion that a lot of u give marciano respect as a champion and his accomplishments, but give him no credit at all, and you think he wouldnt stand a chance against other all time greats.
well THATS A JOKE. peopel say even though they put him on the top ten list, he couldnt beat the 9. bullshit. they say he could only beat norton he didnt have the stlye to beat other greats??? how would u know. why dont u go interview marcianos opponents. how bout u interview some hisorians who floowed marciano closely. HE DID HAVE THE STYLE OT BEAT ALOT OF GREATS AND OTHER EXPETS AND FIGHTERS KNOW THAT JUST NOT A LOT OF U GUYS. ive seen so much talk on here about how immortal holmes and jack johnson and foreman are. "holmes would beat ali" yeah only when ali had parkinson. ali would shut out holmes. jack johnson would decision joe louis and outbox and beat all the other all time greats. u really realized johnsons true gifts through that foggy footage?? u have really good eyes. louis would KO johnson. foreman would clobberr guys like marciano, and dempsey, tyson because he killed frazier. they are not the same as frazier, they all have a little different style and frazier wasnt even in his prime he was 10 lbs to heavy. if foreman didnt get them early, he would be screwed, and foreman had clubbing brute power but never short snap power like tyson marciano and dempsey. those guys could dget inside and take him apart. is foremans chin all that good???
i think u guys give holmes and foreman and the johnsons more credit because they are big guys. marciano and dempsey are under 200 lbs. so what???? and dont tell me its not about size cause every argument u make against me its "MARCIANOS TOO SMALL, OR JEFFRIES IS WAY TOO BIG AND STRONG". u dont realize just cause their 185lbs doesnt mean they cant hit as hard as a 225 lb. in fact they hit harder.
marciano did have more power than jeffries and so did dempsey. dempsey would have knocked out jeffries.
finally, the only reason i argue in marcianos favor so much is no one else does. its always just me, everyone gives him the lack of credit to beat other all time greats. marciano had the strentgh, power, heart, toughness, and skill in his own way to beatr other greats. if joe frazier was getting this much of lack of credit which hasnt happneed on here, id be all over ur cases saying frazier would defintely beat this guy. i have noticed the lack of credit for tyson and it pissed me off and im starting to get more involved in him, because in his prime he would have taken almost any heavyweight in history including marciano, and foreman.
have a nice night, talk in the morning
you know everything already...nothing I or anyone else here can tell you...the next time I feel the need to tap into your immense reservoir of boxing knowledge, I'll let you know...
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
BB, lighten up. These are opinions, and no one knows for sure what would have happened. When you compare Great Fighter A vs. Great Fighter B, someone will pick A and someone will pick B. That's just the nature of the beast.
But, one thing where you do jump the gun, is when you say things about older fighters that make little sense. Knocking their toughness and their traits based on incomplete Boxec records without legitimately studying them like you've studied Marciano. You have asked on several threads to learn more about the older guys, so if you don't know as much about them, how can you be sure about their characteristics like you state in your posts? And even without a lot of footage available, it is an INSULT to the great fighters of the past to knock them because films of their fights weren't saved. Is that the fighter's fault? Should we forget them entirely? The history of boxing is rich and as well-documented as the history of any other sport. The written accounts on the old fights are quite detailed and clear. Thousands of Americans across the country rushed to their newspaper offices to read them because no one saw a lot of fights then!
How did the wrestling tournament go? Maybe we should start some non-Marciano threads so that it doesn't seem like every topic involves the Rock.
:)
But, one thing where you do jump the gun, is when you say things about older fighters that make little sense. Knocking their toughness and their traits based on incomplete Boxec records without legitimately studying them like you've studied Marciano. You have asked on several threads to learn more about the older guys, so if you don't know as much about them, how can you be sure about their characteristics like you state in your posts? And even without a lot of footage available, it is an INSULT to the great fighters of the past to knock them because films of their fights weren't saved. Is that the fighter's fault? Should we forget them entirely? The history of boxing is rich and as well-documented as the history of any other sport. The written accounts on the old fights are quite detailed and clear. Thousands of Americans across the country rushed to their newspaper offices to read them because no one saw a lot of fights then!
How did the wrestling tournament go? Maybe we should start some non-Marciano threads so that it doesn't seem like every topic involves the Rock.
:)
re
>>>iddnt have that good of a defense and his chin was never really tested.<<<
BB---that tells me that you have not read much about Jeffries...read up on his bouts with Tom Sharkey, I know one is on the Brooklyn Eagle archive website, and those two bouts are really all anyone needs to know about Jeffries toughness and ability to take punishment, but for more anyone can look at how much punishment he took from Johnson before he finally caved in...and that was after years of not only being out of the ring, but years where he did no training at all for boxing. Some others that would testify to Jeffries ability to take a punch and or punishment...Gus Ruhlin, Bob Fitzsimmons, who no disrespect to Marciano, but I would almost guarantee that Fitz punched harder than anyone the Rock faced...Corbett, one of the best pure boxers to ever fight boxed Jeffries ears of for several rounds, but due to Jeffries ability to take punishment, he was able to last...if anything Jeffries is more underated than Marciano! One thing was certain...Jeffries chin was certainly tested and it turned out to be one of the better chins in heavyweight history! Jeffries was floored by a lucky punch from Jack Munroe in an exhibition, but Jeffries came back to annilate Munroe in an actual contest! Jack Johnson put Jeffries down also, but other than that...I don't think he ever hit the floor...and I reinterate about Bob Fitzsimmons...probably the most viscous one punch hitter in history, if not the best very, very close to the top of that list! Tom Sharkey was a very hard hitter, as was Gus Ruhlin, Bob Armstrong, Joe Goddard, Joe Choynski and Peter Jackson as well!
BB---that tells me that you have not read much about Jeffries...read up on his bouts with Tom Sharkey, I know one is on the Brooklyn Eagle archive website, and those two bouts are really all anyone needs to know about Jeffries toughness and ability to take punishment, but for more anyone can look at how much punishment he took from Johnson before he finally caved in...and that was after years of not only being out of the ring, but years where he did no training at all for boxing. Some others that would testify to Jeffries ability to take a punch and or punishment...Gus Ruhlin, Bob Fitzsimmons, who no disrespect to Marciano, but I would almost guarantee that Fitz punched harder than anyone the Rock faced...Corbett, one of the best pure boxers to ever fight boxed Jeffries ears of for several rounds, but due to Jeffries ability to take punishment, he was able to last...if anything Jeffries is more underated than Marciano! One thing was certain...Jeffries chin was certainly tested and it turned out to be one of the better chins in heavyweight history! Jeffries was floored by a lucky punch from Jack Munroe in an exhibition, but Jeffries came back to annilate Munroe in an actual contest! Jack Johnson put Jeffries down also, but other than that...I don't think he ever hit the floor...and I reinterate about Bob Fitzsimmons...probably the most viscous one punch hitter in history, if not the best very, very close to the top of that list! Tom Sharkey was a very hard hitter, as was Gus Ruhlin, Bob Armstrong, Joe Goddard, Joe Choynski and Peter Jackson as well!
Brockton I'm going to say this once more to you and then just stop wasting my breath... just because I think Frazier and Jeffries would beat Marciano does not mean I hate Marciano!... this forum is to discuss opinions on fighters and boxing and if you can't take part without losing your rag and stooping to childish insults whenever people disagree with you then perhaps you shouldn't take part because you are just coming across as a schoolboy having a sulk.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:do u know why some people on the forum dont like you???? cause ur a rude guy who attacks everyone personally for no reason.
u have no class sometimes.
If you really think Marcinao was the greatest fighter of all time then fine but just don't expect everyone else to feel the same way and stop with the childish ' you don respect Marciano'.... its ridiculous!.
If you want to see a post written by a rude guy with no class try looking at some of your previous posts here!.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:do u know why some people on the forum dont like you???? cause ur a rude guy who attacks everyone personally for no reason.
u have no class sometimes.
You need to grow up and learn a lot more about fighters other than Rocky Marcinao.... who I'm betting is just about the only guy you've read anything about!.