El Feroz V El Matador

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 11 Aug 2005, 08:40

Who do you like in a Vargas v Mayorga match up if it’s made early next year? Assuming both fighters win this weekend and next, it looks as though we could well have this one to look forward to in the future. However, it depends on what De La Hoya does. Both fighters have expressed their interest in fighting him (big pay day before retirement no doubt) and both have seen better days. My predictions:

Vargas-Mayorga – Pick em with fight of the year written all over it. Not a chance of it going the distance.
DLH-Mayorga – A careful DLH wins this by comfortable decision.
DLH-Vargas – Vargas offers a lot more problems to DLH with a better boxing ability and has a good chance considering DLH would be likely to take this fight without a tune up.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Aug 2005, 09:00

Vargas could well be completely shot, we'll have to see how his next fight goes, Delahoya is doing a Hamed - not sure he'll be back and if he does he'll be past his best - he has got the style to win a UD against Mayorga. Mayorga I think will still be near his prime - losing to a bigger Trinidad isn't too bad going up 2 divisions.

Basically its a battle to find out whos least shot and we don't know.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 12 Aug 2005, 02:57

Mayorga over Vargas. De La Hoya over Mayorga. (If he comes in shape.) De La Hoya over Vargas. (What boxing skill has Vargas aquired? Not using his right arm?)

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Aug 2005, 04:11

I think people are righting off Vargas a bit much. I think Mayorga could have a nasty shock against Piccirillo let alone Vargas - I do tip Mayorga to overcome Piccrillo mind.

Lets not forget a "shot" Vargas ran DLH very very close in their match up. Some people had Vargas slightly ahead at the time of the stoppage, it was very close and Vargas hurt DLH badly early on.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 12 Aug 2005, 13:47

What weight would a Vargas - Mayorga fight be at? Surely it would be at 154lb - at least. I think Vargas is of a higher pedigree than Mayorga, and class would show. Vargas TKO 10.

Piccrillo has a good chance at UD'ing Mayorga.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » 12 Aug 2005, 14:02

I'd do go for Mayorga, but only because he is my favourite fighter.

Would have the potential to be a real good fight.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 12 Aug 2005, 15:38

stujones wrote:
Lets not forget a "shot" Vargas ran DLH very very close in their match up. Some people had Vargas slightly ahead at the time of the stoppage, it was very close and Vargas hurt DLH badly early on.

We must have been watching a different fight.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 12 Aug 2005, 17:17

I think Vargas just ran out of gas against DLH, he had pushed him close to that point. Aginst Trinidad he just got caught out, i mean Trinidad was a world class puncher and most people who made the mistake of meeting him head on got KO'd. And don't forget after a terrible first round Vargas came back to not only outbox Trinidad for periods but also drop him so there is nothing wrong with his heart.

His chin though does remain i suppose questionable and Mayorga hits hard so you would think Vargas would need to be totally focused on the job to come through, as Manos stated i would expect class to come through and the quality Vargas to beat Mayorga.

Look at Vargas's record, he has beaten Winky Wright, Raul Marquez, Yory Boy Campas, Ike Quartey, Ross Thompson. He is no mug and still only 27 years old.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 12 Aug 2005, 17:19

Hmm okay so i checked Vargas's record as a matter of interest and i cannot see Yory BoyCampas's name on there...did i dream that fight? Or is something amiss

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 12 Aug 2005, 17:20

Ok this conversation with myself continues

I presume Luis Ramon Campas aka Yory Boy is the fellow i am searching for, an oversight on my part

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 15 Aug 2005, 07:39

Love to see Vargas come back in style this weekend, he's been fantastic for the sport over the last few years.....but they are rightly matching him very carefully it seems.

It's harsh, but those hard shoot outs will probably have cost El Feroz.
Great showdown for the fans if he takes on Mayorga, but the guy still hits like a freight train. Mayorga KO4.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 15 Aug 2005, 10:49

Slightly disagree there MW, I don't see Castillejo (or however you spell it) as a carefully matched opponent. Remember this guy BEAT (fairly) Karmazin. I think it was one of DLH's better performances to win by a shut out.

I see Castillejo as a far more daunting prospect than Piccirillo who Mayorga beat.

I think if Vargas beats Castillejo then he beats Mayorga who I don't think has the power people rave about at Light Middle. Piccirillo is a Welterweight and he lasted the course.

I wonder will Tito return to action and campaign at Light Middle - I think weight making is not an issue. Its become quite a poor devision as now a champion (and actually arguable the #1 fighter in the devision with Wright now a middleweight) took such a hiding in his previous fight, against a fighter who took a hiding in his last fight.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:05

By carefuly matched I mean not a big puncher Stu - Castillejo is no pushover, but unless Vargas has slipped more than we know ( and that's a possibility ) he should outbox this guy for a points win.

As for Piccirillo, he must have an iron chin - anyone who can cold cock Vernon Forrest is a serious hitter, even a division up.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:24

MightyWarrior wrote:By carefuly matched I mean not a big puncher Stu - Castillejo is no pushover, but unless Vargas has slipped more than we know ( and that's a possibility ) he should outbox this guy for a points win.

As for Piccirillo, he must have an iron chin - anyone who can cold cock Vernon Forrest is a serious hitter, even a division up.

Yes, I don't remember anyone flooring Piccirillo although he hasn't faced many world class bangers. Mayorga did floor him 3 times.

Still think Mayorga was a tad lucky with the Forrest KO because in the rematch he didn't come close to flooring him (I thought Forrest won the fight).

Cory Spinks has a decent chin, but was floored in the 1st meeting with Judah and KO'd in the rematch - so I don't think Mayorga is as explosive as Judah.

I hope that we see a somewhat different Vargas to the guy who lost to (but almost beat people forget) DLH. For me it looked like he had overdone the weights and focused less on his running. I don't think a stoppage loss to DLH is telling that his chin isn't what it was - he seemed to be knackered at around the half way stage and fatigue does adversely effect your punch resistance.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:28

MW, I see where your coming from in that Vargas's chin has let him down a few times - decked in 10 seconds versus Tito, chinned by a single left hook by DLH, dropped heavily on his face by Rivera. The thing is, I don't think Mayorga's power is anything special above welterweight. I remember you said he'd KO Tito in 5 and I disagreed then because in his fight with Mitchell I saw that he didn't carry the weight well at all. Given how the fight went, Piccirillo has obviously been scouted by King as being on the wane, and a good 'name' to help promote a superfight - where he can cash in on Mayorga yet again (he must be laughing all the way to the bank). The fact Mayorga wasn't able to finish Piccirillo - who's legs these days must be questioned - tells me that he isn't nearly as dangerous up at 11st as he is/was at welter. I would actually pick Winky Wright (who Vargas beat) and probably Castillejo over him to - at 11st.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:29

Ronald Wright vs Ricardo Mayorga would be a mismatch.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:32

stujones wrote:I hope that we see a somewhat different Vargas to the guy who lost to (but almost beat people forget) DLH. For me it looked like he had overdone the weights and focused less on his running. I don't think a stoppage loss to DLH is telling that his chin isn't what it was - he seemed to be knackered at around the half way stage and fatigue does adversely effect your punch resistance.

Good point. You could also say the first round in the Tito fight was him being cold cocked while nervous - remember he took many absolute bombs all through that fight before he eventually got stopped (how he got up from that 1st knockdown in the 12th is beyond me).

In the Rivera fight you could say it was mostly the demons from the Trinidad loss that weakened his chin somewhat, though the punch was a bomb (and fair play, he recovered).

The DLH knockdown, as you say, may have been more down to his training than anything else. He definately ran out of gas badly around the midway stage in that fight.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:39

Manos - you're right, I was miles out with the Tito fight ( not even sure Mayorga actualy landed a punch! ) and maybe I am overrating his punching.

As for Vargas, I think his chin was ok before Tito decimated him ( and that idiot Nady let it go on too long ) I mean, he went 12 rounds with the big hitting Quartey before that, no troubles.....but ever since then, his legs seem to stiffen when he's hit a good one - the usual sign that a fighter is getting vunerable...we'll see.

He's still one of my favorite boxers over the last 5 or 6 years - mainly for the way he came back from the brink against Tito - turning what looked a sudden mismatch into a fight of the year.

And yes, Winky would beat Mayorga with his eyes shut.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:49

MightyWarrior wrote:Manos - you're right, I was miles out with the Tito fight ( not even sure Mayorga actualy landed a punch! ) and maybe I am overrating his punching.

As for Vargas, I think his chin was ok before Tito decimated him ( and that idiot Nady let it go on too long ) I mean, he went 12 rounds with the big hitting Quartey before that, no troubles.....but ever since then, his legs seem to stiffen when he's hit a good one - the usual sign that a fighter is getting vunerable...we'll see.

He's still one of my favorite boxers over the last 5 or 6 years - mainly for the way he came back from the brink against Tito - turning what looked a sudden mismatch into a fight of the year.

And yes, Winky would beat Mayorga with his eyes shut.

Well MW, I don't like referencing wrong past predictions - as everyone has them (me: Tito KO1 Hopkins) - but especially not with those as knowledgable as yourself.

To be honest Mayorga KO4 may not be far out - your point about Vargas's punch resistance is spot on - it's Mayorga's power (above welter) I think is slightly overrated. I also think Vargas's amateur pedigree and the quality/level of opponents he has faced so far will play heavily into his favour if this fight (if it happens!) goes past the 5th round.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 15 Aug 2005, 11:52

stujones wrote:Ronald Wright vs Ricardo Mayorga would be a mismatch.

Yes, it would be a sorry sight with Ricardo wildly flailing away at those big Grant gloves.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 15 Aug 2005, 12:06

Manos de Oro wrote: Well MW, I don't like referencing wrong past predictions

No problem, just don't mention I picked Barrett over Rahman too

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 15 Aug 2005, 12:10

MightyWarrior wrote:
Manos de Oro wrote: Well MW, I don't like referencing wrong past predictions
No problem, just don't mention I picked Barrett over Rahman too

I remember there was a great thread on here sometime last year with people posting their wrong predictions. Some absolute crackers.

8)

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 16 Aug 2005, 07:56

stujones wrote:
Still think Mayorga was a tad lucky with the Forrest KO because in the rematch he didn't come close to flooring him (I thought Forrest won the fight).

Cory Spinks has a decent chin, but was floored in the 1st meeting with Judah and KO'd in the rematch - so I don't think Mayorga is as explosive as Judah.

I strongly disagree that Mayorga was "lucky" with the Forrest KO. He walked right through Forrest who was undefeated at the time and looking towards a fight with DLH. Remember it wasn't a 10 count KO, it was a TKO and Forrest had been down twice and looked terrified. He didn't look like he wanted to fight on. Mayorga still beat him in the rematch and I don't think there can be too much controversy about that decision - I had Mayorga winning by 2 points, judges gave 116-112, 115-114, 114-114, fair scoring.

I also don't think you can compare Mayorgas power to Judahs based on the fact that Judah knocked Spinks down and Mayorga didn't. Remember that Mayorga was unable to hit Spinks because he didn't have the speed Judah has. Also, had Mayorga not been deducted a point on two occasions for hitting after the bell and holding and hitting (his frustration being a result of Spinks refusal to stand and fight him), this fight would have been a draw on the scorecards.

Bad decision to move up and fight Trinidad but it had to have been purely for money and not something to try to boost his career. Spinks had already shown how he could be beaten with speed and reflexes, and without power. He hadn't even fought at Middleweight before and I don't think anybody should have expected him to take Trinidad out. Having said that, he was doing brilliantly in the first round until he stuck his chin out and gave Tito two free shots and it was all downhill after that.

Vargas definitely has a lot more ability than Mayorga but the machoism from both fighters leads me to believe that this is a much closer fight than it needs to be. Both fighters are shot IMO, but both still have enough left in the tank to make a bit of noise. I'd say this one would finish somewhere in the mid rounds but would be a great spectacle while it lasted.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 16 Aug 2005, 09:26

I agree on the Spinks-Mayorga point you make, as well as Spinks did you need to bare in mind that Mayorga's two point deductions cost him on the cards so the fight was a very close one.

I am not so sure Vargas is "shot" i think he ran out steam versus DLH and paid the penalty, don't forget he wasn't blasted away due to a weak chin it was more of an overwhelming by DLH and accumulation of punches stopping the already fatigued Vargas. Mayorga well he is just an unorthodox fighter and it's hard to gauge how much he has to offer, i suppose we will see how he reacts when he starts taking some serious punches again.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Aug 2005, 14:00

I think there is a little contradiction there.

First you say Mayorga didn't have Judah's speed/skills to land clean on Spinks.

Then you say but for two point degressions it would have been a draw - so obviously he must have landed a few times for it to be so close on the cards.

Personally, I thought Spinks won big.

On Trinidad vs Mayorga, well Tito hadn't fought for 2 years and I don't think had fought anyone with the power reputation that Mayorga had and he had been stopped two fights before and nearly stopped on several other occasions. Lots of people thought a sharper Mayorga would have taken out Tito.

Fair enough about the scoring of the Forrest rematch, but really that wasn't the point I was making was that Forrest wasn't hurt.