First of all I wish to state I ask this question meaning no disrespect to the great Sugar Ray Robinson.
But I have heard time and time again that he was in no rush to fight the very much avoided Charley Burley. I understand this fight almost happened around 1946 but Robinson asked for too much money. Is this true?
Robinson signed for a fight with Burley to take place in Pittsburgh on May 10th 1946. Burley beat Billy Smith in Oakland prior to the match, but Robinson raised the price and wouldn't go through with the fight when his demands weren't met.
At a later date Burley's management had the money, but still no takers. SRR was not the only fighter who baulked at a match with Burley.
Burley was also offered a series with SRR providing he lose the first bout.
I did some reading around on Charley Burley.
And, the reason he never got title fights...against Sugar Ray or anyone seems to be that he didn't cooperate with the mob and fight managers (though I haven't found it explicitly stated, I have seen references to the reason he wasn't given a shot was that he was an "honest" man *hint hint*).
He had fights set up with Robinson on two occassions, but Robinson upped the demands for his share and I suppose they were called off. Perhaps it was a combination of Burley not having an "exciting" or "flashy" style that would draw big money and that Sugar knew it would be a tough fight and might as well get paid for it.
But, what stands out is that Burley NEVER got a title fight with anyone, at any weight class (not just Sugar Ray); though he would've fought anywhere from welter to light heavy. If you're a good enough fighter, then the only reason this wouldn't happen over the period of a career would be your refusal to cooperate with the people "in charge," if you will.
He was certainly a tough son of a bitch...but I think it'd be a stretch to say that some of these fighters were scared shitless of him...especially since he was often proned to "off" nights and losing to nobodies, even in his prime.
Yes, Burley was an honest man. The fact that many fighters could have fought him but didn't is probably more an indication of what managers thought was best for their fighters rrther than any fear by the fighters themselves. Though Robinson often swung between being managed by Ginsford and declaring himself as sole arbiter when it came to career decisions.
The facts are that every champion of the time (welter and middle) was approached to fight Burley; Armstrong, Zivic, Cochrane, Servo, Zale, Graziano, Cerdan, LaMotta and Billy Conn. None of these guys are on his record.
Burley was also beatable - as is every fighter - but to say he lost to nobodies during his prime is stretching it a little. In fact, saying that Burley lost to nobodies at any stage of his career is stretching it.
I've also read that Robinson raised his price. Also, Burley was up for a shot at Fritzie Zivic, when he was welterweight champion, but Zivic, and I think his manager bought out Burley's contract, so that took care of Zivic having to fight Burley...sad, but Burley was just too good! I just noticed the prone to losing to nobodies...the only fighter that Burley lost to that would could even consider a nobody would be Red Dolan, but Dolan was a good, tough fighter as well...Burley only lost to top fighters, which considering that 85, or 90% of all of his bouts were against tough opposition, well he should lose a few bouts.
You are right on with Burley's opponents. Eddie Dolan was a top rated welterweight at the time and had far more experience than Burley who was fighting rated guys when he was barely out of double figures.
Charley's manager was having problems with him and decided around the time of the third zivic fight to sell his contract. Zivic - via a local attorney who was acting as a front - bought out Burley so that he would not have to defend the welterweight title against him.
Zivic then then made good on a previous promise and sold Burley's contract to Tommy O'Loughlin after he lost the crown.
For some boxing research I'm doing, I recently reviewed two weeks of the Minneapolis paper in March 1942 surrounding Charley Burley's fight with heavyweight Jay D. Turner and this is what I found:
Promoter Tommy O’ Loughlin made offers to eight different fighters to fight Burley in this time before getting Turner. Billy Conn refused a $10,000 guarantee, even though he weighed about 170lbs and Burley 148-149. Zivic refused $4,000 against 35% of the gate. Tony Motisi, who was coming off a victory over Zivic, passed. Ceferino Garcia was not considered a draw. Fred Apostoli, Ken Overlin, and Steve Belloise all passed. Izzy Jannazzo wanted more than 30% of the gate. The Minneapolis sports editor Charles Johnson mentioned that managers were probably scared off by the way Burley handled Holman Williams, another much avoided fighter. Johnson said that Burley needed to find some way to get a fight at MSG so the people could see how talented he is (he never did fight at MSG). Burley even planned to offer his services for free to Mike Jacobs for a war card if he could get a title shot against Freddie Cochrane and that didn't happen either.
To be fair, people were avoiding Robinson as well and Burley was not a big draw while Robinson had the Gold Gloves pedigree and headliner status at MSG. Robinson could have fought Burley, and signed to do, but I won't go so far as to say he was outright ducking him. And once Robinson won the title, or was on the verge of a title shot when that 1946 fight was scheduled, Burley was weighing in the 154-158 range and had won a CA middleweight title.
The fact that GREAT fighters get "cheated" is an 'acceptable' part of boxing is only 1/3 the problem...
the 2cnd. part being the affect it has on the fighters themselves (I know this personally), which is the "ultimate" crime...
the 3rd. part is just as bad as the 1st. even years later with "all the facts" present some people STILL don't want to or CAN"T bring themselves to give credit where it's due! Disgusting!!!
At least through the great work of "HONEST" people like Harry Otty and the many before him CHARLEY BURLEY is an ALL - TIME GREAT!!!
Britain has STILL got to come on board for some of Her Sons!
just because robinson signed up to fight burley and then asked for more money as the fight approached proves nothing.
robinson did this frequently throughout his career and he wasnt popular with other fighters and promoters because of his famed hard bargaining style.
i find it hard to believe ray robinson would fear or dodge any fighter, he had confidence in his own ability.
there`s no denying burley was an excellent fighter but ray robinson has a more than valid claim to be the best fighter ever to lace up a pair of gloves.
Decagon wrote:Hey, no one better than Sugar Ray Robinson at welterweight, but he was such a big draw that he could make as much money fighting white pugs as he could fighting black contenders. You look back at his career and see all these great fighters that beat him - Maxim, Basilio, Pender, Fullmer - but for every one of them, there were four or five black fighters who could've done the same.
Which fighters would you say were the best of the bunch that Robinson could have fought but didn't at Welter or Middleweight?
