When he blew away Archie Moore in 9 rounds Marciano was asked after the fight "Do you think you will go for the golden fifty?" Marciano some what avoided the question and not too long afterwards retired, leaving the title vacant and in the end Floyd Patterson won the crown.
He was offered come back fight deals and was called out by the likes of Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston. It wouldnt be until 1969 that Marciano returned when Muhammad Ali and him fought 75 rounds worth of exhibitions. The end result was a motion picture released to the public that showed Marciano, after 14yrs inactivity and having to shed over 50 pounds, knocking out "The Louisville Lip" in 13 rounds.
Muhammad Ali was astonished by Marciano's body punching, saying: "My whole body ached all over, and ours wasn't even a real fight." Marciano never saw the film, as he died in a plane crash in 1970.
The main contenders when Marciano left his division were guys like Tommy Jackson, Floyd Patterson, Harold Johnson, Tom McNeeley, and Ingemar Johansson.
There really is no doubt in my mind, that Marciano would have beaten any of these men, the question in my mind is WHY LEAVE? Course, I know that answer, his manager was taking alot of money from him and his back was hurting him all the time, so it kind of a stupid thing to ask.
Marciano trained like an old-time bareknuckle fighter, if his next bout was scheduled for 15, he would train as if that bout was going to be 45 rounds. He worked himself down to 185 pounds, even though when he first started out he was 210 pounds. People say he was an awkward fighter, which was some what true---he fought very awkward starting off, his 69" reach made him incapable of boxing, so he fought from a crouch; but by the time he retired, his bobbing and weaving skills were likened to that of Dempsey's. He was the most powerful heavyweight there ever was, until Foreman came around---all it took with Marciano was just one clean shot with everything put into it to end a fight.
I guess we could always debate this, but what is even more debatable is, how great was Marciano? I think Teddy Atlas said it best "Marciano is both the most over-rated and under-rated champion there ever was...over rated because he never lost, under rated because of the debate of how great his opposition was."
Could Rocky Marciano of Went 50-0?
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HomicideHenry
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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thats a kind of funny comment by teddy.
marciano retired cause..
- hes the type of fighter that trained like no other, he trained 7 months for bouts, and he would come in so strong and rock solid. the edge that made him train so hard was his determination. he wanted it so bad. he started to lose that detemrination late in his career and people noticed after 2nd charles fight, he had no motivation in training for cockell. all that fire he had he was losing due to wanting to spend more time with family. he was able to get himself motivated for one last fight against moore.
- age, he was 32 when he fought moore and was nearing 33, and sooner or later he was gonna show definte signs of aging, and losing power and reflexes.
- al weill. he always though al weill screwed ihm out of money in cockell fight and said he hated ifghting for al weill and following his bullshit rules. al weill made rocky feel caged at times. their relationship grew bitter toward the end. rocky of course defended his manager in public but inside knew al screwed him. al did great things and bad things for rocky, and marciano said if he fights again, he will never fight for al weill.
- like i said earlier family, he and his wife in a total of the 3 years he held the title only spent 165 DAYS together. rocky really missed spending time with his wife and daughter who barely got to see him.
once rocky knew he couldnt put the same dedication to training he once had done and he was losing it, he knew it was time to leave. cause hes the time of fighter that has to come in top shape, and if he doesnt, he ruins his fighting style and risks losing. rocky also was having much harder time losing weight late in his career. he was showing small signs of aging.
rocky was the smartest of all the hevayweight champs, he left at the right time. he beat everyone he had to beat, he cleaned up the division. the only guy left was moore, and after marciano got rid of moore, he knew he had done everything and it was time to go. had he stayed for a couple more fights he prob would have fought tommy hurricane jackson and a young floyd patterson. there was no one left for marciano to fight
marciano always said "i probably had two or three good fights left"
after moore he probably would have fought hurrican jackson and knocked him out then fought a young floyd patterson who was still green. u see there was no big dog for him to fight. moore was the last one and marciano disposed him. and by the time liston, machen and williams come around, marciano would be around 36,37 and by now way past his prime and would be no match for the prime liston at 37.
the only other guy he prob should have fought instead of cockell was nino valdez, but valdez and marciano actually agreed to fight only for moore to take his place when mooore outpointed valdez. so valdez blew his shot.
so as u see if marciano stayed, he would have had to wait about 3 more years for big dogs to come again. he would have to wait for patterson to fully mature and for liston and williams and machen to get more experienced. and by the time that happened, marciano would be around 36 and would have nothing left.
marciano retired cause..
- hes the type of fighter that trained like no other, he trained 7 months for bouts, and he would come in so strong and rock solid. the edge that made him train so hard was his determination. he wanted it so bad. he started to lose that detemrination late in his career and people noticed after 2nd charles fight, he had no motivation in training for cockell. all that fire he had he was losing due to wanting to spend more time with family. he was able to get himself motivated for one last fight against moore.
- age, he was 32 when he fought moore and was nearing 33, and sooner or later he was gonna show definte signs of aging, and losing power and reflexes.
- al weill. he always though al weill screwed ihm out of money in cockell fight and said he hated ifghting for al weill and following his bullshit rules. al weill made rocky feel caged at times. their relationship grew bitter toward the end. rocky of course defended his manager in public but inside knew al screwed him. al did great things and bad things for rocky, and marciano said if he fights again, he will never fight for al weill.
- like i said earlier family, he and his wife in a total of the 3 years he held the title only spent 165 DAYS together. rocky really missed spending time with his wife and daughter who barely got to see him.
once rocky knew he couldnt put the same dedication to training he once had done and he was losing it, he knew it was time to leave. cause hes the time of fighter that has to come in top shape, and if he doesnt, he ruins his fighting style and risks losing. rocky also was having much harder time losing weight late in his career. he was showing small signs of aging.
rocky was the smartest of all the hevayweight champs, he left at the right time. he beat everyone he had to beat, he cleaned up the division. the only guy left was moore, and after marciano got rid of moore, he knew he had done everything and it was time to go. had he stayed for a couple more fights he prob would have fought tommy hurricane jackson and a young floyd patterson. there was no one left for marciano to fight
marciano always said "i probably had two or three good fights left"
after moore he probably would have fought hurrican jackson and knocked him out then fought a young floyd patterson who was still green. u see there was no big dog for him to fight. moore was the last one and marciano disposed him. and by the time liston, machen and williams come around, marciano would be around 36,37 and by now way past his prime and would be no match for the prime liston at 37.
the only other guy he prob should have fought instead of cockell was nino valdez, but valdez and marciano actually agreed to fight only for moore to take his place when mooore outpointed valdez. so valdez blew his shot.
so as u see if marciano stayed, he would have had to wait about 3 more years for big dogs to come again. he would have to wait for patterson to fully mature and for liston and williams and machen to get more experienced. and by the time that happened, marciano would be around 36 and would have nothing left.
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Rory McCloskey
- Heavyweight
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..another reason rocky quit when he did...and i've seldom seen this mentioned....though he said it in a few interviews some time after he retired..was that he had just the slightest hint of a buzz in his ears after the moore fight that lasted a while...came and went. not serious, but he was smart and aware of guys who stayed around too long (hell, me made much of his reputation beating them) and he was a fanatic about being in the best possible condition.
still...he could have gone 50-0 easy....in terms of still being a top fighter..but...as has been said here...against whom? there weren't any contenders out there to be built up to draw a worthwhile gate....at least not enough for him to go into that grueling training that was such a huge part of his arsenal.
he didn't like johannsenn...thought he was too arrogant...and thought briefly about coming back to challenge him....but discarded the idea without giving it serious consideration.
still...he could have gone 50-0 easy....in terms of still being a top fighter..but...as has been said here...against whom? there weren't any contenders out there to be built up to draw a worthwhile gate....at least not enough for him to go into that grueling training that was such a huge part of his arsenal.
he didn't like johannsenn...thought he was too arrogant...and thought briefly about coming back to challenge him....but discarded the idea without giving it serious consideration.
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Bradley001
- Heavyweight
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I THINK
I THINK ROCKY MARCIONO MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE BECAUSE IN HIS LAST FIGHT WHEN HE GOT KNOCKED DOWN BY 2ND RATE FIGHTER MOORE I THINK THAT WAS THE SIGN THAT MARCIONO SHOULD RETIRE
I THINK ROCKY MARCIONO MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE BECAUSE IN HIS LAST FIGHT WHEN HE GOT KNOCKED DOWN BY 2ND RATE FIGHTER MOORE I THINK THAT WAS THE SIGN THAT MARCIONO SHOULD RETIRE
You could be right in one way but are definitly wrong in another. After the fight with Moore, Marciano was absolutely out of it. He couldnt catch his breathe during the after fight interview and did not recover from the ache and pains like he usually did. Rocky also stated on his old boxing tv show that a Moore body punch was the hardest he was ever hit. It could stand to reason that Rocky realized that if the lightheavyweight champ gave him that good of a fight, maybe it was time for him to pack it in.
What your wrong about is Archie moore being a second rate fighter, then or ever. Moore continued as lightheavy champ for 6 years after fighting Marciano. In that time he was also a top heavyweight contender. Its downright blasphemous put down the Mongoose like that.
You could be right in one way but are definitly wrong in another. After the fight with Moore, Marciano was absolutely out of it. He couldnt catch his breathe during the after fight interview and did not recover from the ache and pains like he usually did. Rocky also stated on his old boxing tv show that a Moore body punch was the hardest he was ever hit. It could stand to reason that Rocky realized that if the lightheavyweight champ gave him that good of a fight, maybe it was time for him to pack it in.
What your wrong about is Archie moore being a second rate fighter, then or ever. Moore continued as lightheavy champ for 6 years after fighting Marciano. In that time he was also a top heavyweight contender. Its downright blasphemous put down the Mongoose like that.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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The Scranton Assassin
- Heavyweight
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I have read a couple fo biogs of Rocky and he was very conscious of the downside of hanging aorund too long. I read that he always took time with ex-pros especially those who had hung around too long. he had not time for peopel making fun out of 'punchy' old pros and was determined that the same thing would not happen to him.
It's a real shame he died so early as I think he'd have been good for the sport in his old days.
It's a real shame he died so early as I think he'd have been good for the sport in his old days.
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ol'mongoose
- Heavyweight
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Re: I THINK
Moore was no second rate fighter ever; don't forget when Moore fought MArciano he was near fifty, no one in their right mind can argue Moore's classBradley001 wrote:I THINK ROCKY MARCIONO MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE BECAUSE IN HIS LAST FIGHT WHEN HE GOT KNOCKED DOWN BY 2ND RATE FIGHTER MOORE I THINK THAT WAS THE SIGN THAT MARCIONO SHOULD RETIRE
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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ol'mongoose
- Heavyweight
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I'm with you guys on this one.KO Atrist wrote:Agreed. Moore is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived. He is strictly TOP DRAWER.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:archie moore was a top 15 and some rate him top 10 figher of all time.
to call archie a 2nd rate fighter is completely ridiculous and unintelligent.
P.S.
Just in case you didn't know the Marciano vs Ali 'fight' is out on DVD.
http://www.mackinacmedia.com/superfightdvd.htm
Region 2 to be released soon I have been told.
Just in case you didn't know the Marciano vs Ali 'fight' is out on DVD.
http://www.mackinacmedia.com/superfightdvd.htm
Region 2 to be released soon I have been told.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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ol'mongoose
- Heavyweight
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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why would he have fought moore again???
besides the flash knockdown, marciano dominated the fight knocking him down 3 times before finishing him in the 9th. marciano won almost every round. moore was very game though and made marciano work hard. some rounds were close .
as for liston, if marciano had faced liston in 1955 or 56, marciano would have knocked him out. liston was still green and had not had a lot of fights besides his trilogy with marshall.
liston would have had to waited until 58 when he got out of prison, and by that time marciano would be 36 and far past his prime and would have been knocked out by the peak liston.
there was no one left for rocky to face. plus rocky was showing signs of aging. he was 33, and swarmers dont usually last as long.
look how short fraziers peak was. after the ali fight frazier was never the same. dempsey was never the same when he got off his 3 year layoff.
besides the flash knockdown, marciano dominated the fight knocking him down 3 times before finishing him in the 9th. marciano won almost every round. moore was very game though and made marciano work hard. some rounds were close .
as for liston, if marciano had faced liston in 1955 or 56, marciano would have knocked him out. liston was still green and had not had a lot of fights besides his trilogy with marshall.
liston would have had to waited until 58 when he got out of prison, and by that time marciano would be 36 and far past his prime and would have been knocked out by the peak liston.
there was no one left for rocky to face. plus rocky was showing signs of aging. he was 33, and swarmers dont usually last as long.
look how short fraziers peak was. after the ali fight frazier was never the same. dempsey was never the same when he got off his 3 year layoff.
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Rory McCloskey
- Heavyweight
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Re: I THINK
calling a HOF champion and a great fighter in several divisions, a 2nd rate fighter... is one of the more ignorant things ive ever heard. archie moore was grade A 1st rate greatness... he defended his title for some 5-7 years after the marciano fight anyway. i think it was 7?Bradley001 wrote:I THINK ROCKY MARCIONO MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE BECAUSE IN HIS LAST FIGHT WHEN HE GOT KNOCKED DOWN BY 2ND RATE FIGHTER MOORE I THINK THAT WAS THE SIGN THAT MARCIONO SHOULD RETIRE
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ol'mongoose
- Heavyweight
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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valdez was in a downcline. if they would have fought it would have been in 53 or 54. marciano and valdez actually signed to fight, but moore beat valdez so valdez lost his chance. besides, moore beat baker, valdez,
so if marciano fought baker and valdez a win wouldnt mean anything. by marciano beating moore, he eliminated any big matches in the next 2 years.
harold johnson is a good choice
bob satterfield wasnt even a top contender. he barely made it into the top ten rankings. he did record some big wins, but he was too inconsistent and never did enough to deserve a title shot. he had his chance many times. incredible puncher, i would have loved to see marciano vs satterfield in 1951.
marciano was gonna fight winner of layne-satterfeild, and layne knocked out satterfield so marciano fought him.
zora folley- he was no way near ready yet. in 55, he was knocked out by young jack johnson and jonny summerlin.
fact is marciano by beating moore eliminated everyone else. because moore beat baker, valdez, johnson, etc so marciano beating other contenders wouldnt mean as much.
so if marciano fought baker and valdez a win wouldnt mean anything. by marciano beating moore, he eliminated any big matches in the next 2 years.
harold johnson is a good choice
bob satterfield wasnt even a top contender. he barely made it into the top ten rankings. he did record some big wins, but he was too inconsistent and never did enough to deserve a title shot. he had his chance many times. incredible puncher, i would have loved to see marciano vs satterfield in 1951.
marciano was gonna fight winner of layne-satterfeild, and layne knocked out satterfield so marciano fought him.
zora folley- he was no way near ready yet. in 55, he was knocked out by young jack johnson and jonny summerlin.
fact is marciano by beating moore eliminated everyone else. because moore beat baker, valdez, johnson, etc so marciano beating other contenders wouldnt mean as much.
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ol'mongoose
- Heavyweight
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Thus marciano should have fought Moore again, there was nobody else, even if Moore was far past his prime, if past his prime he was world-class he deserved a second fight jssut because of the hard times he got; he fought MArciano at42, his first title fight was at 39 at light-heavy so he didn't have much time to aclimatize, by the second fight he would have and at least taken rocky the distance