Larry Holmes vs..............

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Oct 2005, 16:08

who wins

larry holmes vs .........

Joe louis- Joe Louis KO 7

muhammad ali- ali 15 unanimous decision

george foreman- Larry Holmes TKO 10

jack johnson- Holmes 15 unanimous decision

Joe Frazier - Frazier 15 split

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 05 Oct 2005, 16:18

Joe Louis- louis 8 round KO

Ali- Ali 9 round KO

Foreman- Foreman 13 round KO

Jack Johnson- Holmes UD/SD-great fight!

Joe Frazier- .... i dunno.. i dont see it going all the way but i see it being a great fight.

I dont think that Holmes is in the same class as Louis or Ali, and i think he would just simply be outmached by the 2 and they would score a mid to late round KO...

Foreman i see just pounding away at holmes slowly... holmes wasnt that elusive and i see big george getting some good shots on him.. if george has enough stamina to keep going and not get KO himself, then i see him KO holmes very late.

Jack Johnson..again i think this is an awesome fight... ill take holmes over johnson mostly because of his strength but it would be very close, possibly a SD or even a draw.. to close to feel comfortable abotu my pick.

joe frazier... i couldnt tell you...joe always starts up late, so i think that hurts him, and im not sure he has enough in him to take holmes out late... i think he tries to hard to catch up to holmes who is ahead on the cards, and he wears himself down and holmes KO him.. if that doesnt happen then i could see frazier getting him and KO him...

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 05 Oct 2005, 16:20

.......just when I think a "Holmes" thread has run its course, another one pops up.......

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 05 Oct 2005, 17:33

LTKO 10 to Louis- Louis just too good. Holmes stopped on his feet.

WUD15 Ali - I think Holmes has the style to beat Ali. 9-6 in rounds.

WUD15 Foreman - Holmes jab kepts Foreman away for a boring wide decision.

LUD15 Johnson - Johnson too quick, smart for Holmes. 11-4 in rounds.

WKO12 Frazier - Either Frazier early or Holmes late. Would be a great fight, hard to pick a winner.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 Oct 2005, 18:06

I can't believe people picking Louis to ko Holmes... firstly Louis would not ko Holmes who had a very good chin.. secondly Holmes definately had the style to beat Louis and anyone who has looked at Joes career should know that. He had lots of trouble with movers and boxers with good jans and Holmes was one of the best movers and jabbers next to Ali. Also Holmes righthand would have been powerful enough to hurt louis too. Holmes by points or late round ko.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Oct 2005, 18:12

i still think holmes has the style to beat jack johnson, then again norton gave holmes loads of trouble.

- holmes defense was vunerable at times, and he showed in a lot of fights he could be caught. joe louis had an incredible offense and would get to holmes in the mid rounds. louis had an underated defense. louis would parry jabs. personally, holmes never faced as great a PUNCHER as joe louis. the closest was mike tyson. but i do think it would be hard for louis to outpoint holmes.

- why do u think holmes would stop frazier sherlock??????/ a peak frazier beat a close to his prime ali. frazier had the perfect style to beat holmes in a close decision.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 Oct 2005, 18:17

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i still think holmes has the style to beat jack johnson, then again norton gave holmes loads of trouble.

- holmes defense was vunerable at times, and he showed in a lot of fights he could be caught. joe louis had an incredible offense and would get to holmes in the mid rounds. louis had an underated defense. louis would parry jabs. personally, holmes never faced as great a PUNCHER as joe louis. the closest was mike tyson. but i do think it would be hard for louis to outpoint holmes.

- why do u think holmes would stop frazier sherlock??????/ a peak frazier beat a close to his prime ali. frazier had the perfect style to beat holmes in a close decision.

How can you say that Holmes never faced a great puncher?. Shavers, Weaver, and Cooney were huge punchers... they were bigger punchers than Louis who was not a great one punch knockout artist but a fighter who koed opponents with combinations.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 05 Oct 2005, 18:19

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: - why do u think holmes would stop frazier sherlock??????/ a peak frazier beat a close to his prime ali. frazier had the perfect style to beat holmes in a close decision.

Holmes was a bigger puncher than Ali. Holmes had a powerful jab with a strong right hand. I think he could wear Frazier down and stop him late; most of Holmes knockout defenses came late. It would be a hard fight, and I wouldn't argue a Frazier victory.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 Oct 2005, 18:34

I see Holmes beating Frazier too. Ali was far from his best in his first fight with Frazier and had not adapted yet to having partly lost his legs and a lot of his former speed and reflexes. Holmes would not let Frazier catch him on the ropes like Ali did in his first fight with frazier.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 05 Oct 2005, 21:37

Another big puncher Holmes faced was James Bonecrusher Smith. Although their were lapses where he didn't let his hand fly and was not always the most agressive fighter, he did posses the big punch.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 06 Oct 2005, 00:02

silkov wrote:I can't believe people picking Louis to ko Holmes... firstly Louis would not ko Holmes who had a very good chin.. secondly Holmes definately had the style to beat Louis and anyone who has looked at Joes career should know that. He had lots of trouble with movers and boxers with good jans and Holmes was one of the best movers and jabbers next to Ali. Also Holmes righthand would have been powerful enough to hurt louis too. Holmes by points or late round ko.

i understand that holmes has a solid chin, but louis was one of the hardest hitters of all time. i see him having enough power to KO any heavyweight that i know of.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Oct 2005, 04:25

I think these are all very even match ups.

I think Louis would catch Holmes and hurt him. I don't see him stopping him though. Larry has the jab but Joe's wasn't too bad either. Joe also had an underrated left hook which Larry really never mastered (not to the same degree). Holmes can drop Louis and might doe arly on but I see Joe having enough good moments in the midle of the fight to just get the MD.

Ali would not enjoy a fight with Holmes. Larry's style would bother him. It's always hard to go against Ali though and I think he wins a razor thin decision.

Foreman might knock Holmes down and pile on the hurt but sooner or later Holmes will get back into the fight. I see Holmes stopping George between 9-12 rounds.

Johnson and Holmes would be a very frustrating fight. I see Johnson parrying the jab and Holmes struggling once his best weapon is comprimised. Johnson would go to the body, fight in short bursts and the two would be testing one another's strength. At the final bell there would be a lot of arguing about how to score the fight but Johnson would take a
clsoe UD.

This would be a hum-dinger. Holmes would easily take the first few rounds. Frazier would then start to wind up the pressure and start to catch up with Holmes on the scorecards. We'd then have an even fight from round 11 onwards with Holmes just winning the decision.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 06 Oct 2005, 06:35

If Foreman has the legs and stamina, I definitely see him beating Larry by mid to late KO.....It took an almighty effort by the greatest heavyweight ever to beat George. I don't think Larry would have been able to do what Ali did to George. Holmes is a notch below Ali and this means a Foreman victory....Ali's ability to take that punishment was the reason he won. Larry I feel wouldn't hack it near as well.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 06 Oct 2005, 07:20

walshb wrote:If Foreman has the legs and stamina, I definitely see him beating Larry by mid to late KO.....It took an almighty effort by the greatest heavyweight ever to beat George. I don't think Larry would have been able to do what Ali did to George. Holmes is a notch below Ali and this means a Foreman victory....Ali's ability to take that punishment was the reason he won. Larry I feel wouldn't hack it near as well.

Holmes ability to take punishment was just as good if not better than Ali's.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Oct 2005, 07:30

Rory McCloskey wrote:
silkov wrote:I can't believe people picking Louis to ko Holmes... firstly Louis would not ko Holmes who had a very good chin.. secondly Holmes definately had the style to beat Louis and anyone who has looked at Joes career should know that. He had lots of trouble with movers and boxers with good jans and Holmes was one of the best movers and jabbers next to Ali. Also Holmes righthand would have been powerful enough to hurt louis too. Holmes by points or late round ko.
i understand that holmes has a solid chin, but louis was one of the hardest hitters of all time. i see him having enough power to KO any heavyweight that i know of.

Louis was not a one punch ko artist... he used to knockout his opponents with flurries of punches. Shavers and Weaver were bigger punchers than Louis. Also Holmes had one of the best chins of any heavyweight champion....

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 06 Oct 2005, 07:33

walshb wrote:If Foreman has the legs and stamina, I definitely see him beating Larry by mid to late KO.....It took an almighty effort by the greatest heavyweight ever to beat George. I don't think Larry would have been able to do what Ali did to George. Holmes is a notch below Ali and this means a Foreman victory....Ali's ability to take that punishment was the reason he won. Larry I feel wouldn't hack it near as well.

I don't think it was Ali's ability to take punishment as much as it was his gameplan.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Oct 2005, 08:10

A peak Holmes would definately beat Foreman... Larry would be too fast, skillful and mobile for George. He also had a good right hand and I can see him koing George in the later rounds. Holmes would beat George the way a peak '67 version Ali would have beaten him.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Oct 2005, 08:15

One of the great things Holmes had going for him was his durability. He could take punichment and keep coming.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Oct 2005, 08:16

...which reminds me...

Why did he take the Tyson fight? He should have built up to it and not taken it at such short notice. Any ideas? Silkov?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Oct 2005, 08:20

Ezzard wrote:...which reminds me...

Why did he take the Tyson fight? He should have built up to it and not taken it at such short notice. Any ideas? Silkov?

Don King came round his house and asked him to fight Tyson for 3 million Dollars. Holmes only had about 8 weeks to get into shape but he took the fight basically for the money.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Oct 2005, 08:21

Ezzard wrote:...which reminds me...

Why did he take the Tyson fight? He should have built up to it and not taken it at such short notice. Any ideas? Silkov?

Don King came round his house and asked him to fight Tyson for 3 million Dollars. Holmes only had about 8 weeks to get into shape but he took the fight basically for the money.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Oct 2005, 08:23

In his Autobiography Holmes says that his biggest fear has always been ending up poor again like he was when he grew up and this is obviously what was behind his many comebacks. Holmes probably had a harder upbringing than Tyson.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Oct 2005, 09:45

With his jab, chin, stamina and fearlessness Holmes would have dealt with Tyson in his younger years. Mike paid him a lot of respect after the fight. I was horrified when the match was made.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Oct 2005, 09:54

Ezzard wrote:With his jab, chin, stamina and fearlessness Holmes would have dealt with Tyson in his younger years. Mike paid him a lot of respect after the fight. I was horrified when the match was made.

I think it was a mistake Larry taking the fight on such short notice but he couldn't resist the money. I think the Holmes who fought Holifield, Mccall and Mercer would have given Tyson a much better fight... he was in better shape and had adapted his style by those fights. In his prime though Holmes would have dominated Tyson with his jab and movement and won by a late rounds ko.
Interestingly Holmes predicted after fighting Tyson that he'd be in jail or dead in a few years time, and ofcourse we know what happened!...

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Oct 2005, 10:04

I last saw the fight a long time ago. I remember Larry's hand getting caught on the ropes as he was trying to fight back. Am I imagining it or did Holmes do okay in the first 2 rounds?

Why did King offer Holmes the fight? Surely there must have been another challenger out there?