top 10 all time great

jyuza · Post by **jyuza** » 13 Oct 2005, 05:53

You guys are awesome, very good knowledge of boxing history.
So what's your top ten ?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 13 Oct 2005, 05:56

what for HW? MW? P4p?

jyuza · Post by **jyuza** » 13 Oct 2005, 06:07

Ezzard wrote:what for HW? MW? P4p?

i mean p4p

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 13 Oct 2005, 07:53

In any order.
Roberto Duran
Ray Robinson
Muhammad Ali
Henry Armstrong
Jimmy Wilde
Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
Sam Langford
J.C. Chavez
Ray Leonard.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 13 Oct 2005, 08:36

PFP lists, all time , are so subjective. My can change anyday. Here's a quick stab, in pretty much anyorder

1. Harry Greb
2. Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Roberto Duran
5. Micky Walker
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Sam Langford
8. Joe Louis
9. Eder Jofre
10. Jimmy Wilde

theone · Post by **theone** » 13 Oct 2005, 18:03

In order of greatness:

1.Ali
2.Robinson
3.Armstrong
4.Greb
5.Pep
6.Louis
7.Ray Leonard
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
9.Pernell Whitaker
10.Sam Langford

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 14 Oct 2005, 07:13

I think all the lists are pretty good so far. My P4P list gives a lot of credit to guys who, in real life, ranged freely through the different weight classes successfully. Of course that excludes great natural heavyweights but I'm willing to live with that ommission.

1. Sam Langford (a natural super middle he spent a career fighting heavyweights and light heavies.)
2. Henry Armstrong (Three titles simultaneously back when there were no bogus titles.)
3. Sugar Ray Robinson (Greatest welterweight of all time and top five middleweight.)

Those guys have to be 1-3. After that I'm not so sure of the order.

4. Roberto Duran
5. Harry Greb
6. Mickey Walker
7. Ray Leonard
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Emile Griffith
10. Gene Tunney

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 14 Oct 2005, 07:27

sharkeysboy wrote:I think all the lists are pretty good so far. My P4P list gives a lot of credit to guys who, in real life, ranged freely through the different weight classes successfully. Of course that excludes great natural heavyweights but I'm willing to live with that ommission.

1. Sam Langford (a natural super middle he spent a career fighting heavyweights and light heavies.)
2. Henry Armstrong (Three titles simultaneously back when there were no bogus titles.)
3. Sugar Ray Robinson (Greatest welterweight of all time and top five middleweight.)

Those guys have to be 1-3. After that I'm not so sure of the order.

4. Roberto Duran
5. Harry Greb
6. Mickey Walker
7. Ray Leonard
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Emile Griffith
10. Gene Tunney

I thought Langford was a natural lightweight.

Either way, he's still great.

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 14 Oct 2005, 07:37

Grimm wrote:[
I thought Langford was a natural lightweight.

Either way, he's still great.

He started at lightweight when he was real young and fought at welter too but when he hit maturity he was a middle or super middle. Remember Clay fought at lightheavy in the Olympics and Patterson fought at middleweight in golden gloves.

Aftermath · Post by **Aftermath** » 14 Oct 2005, 15:19

1.Julio Cesar Chavez
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Sugar Ray Robinson
4.Rocky Marciano
5.Jack Johnson
6.Carlos Monzon
7.Benny Leonard
8.Joe Louis
9.Willie Pep
10.Salvador Sanchez

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 14 Oct 2005, 15:46

1 - Sugar Ray Robinson
2 - Joe Louis
3 - Muhammad Ali
4 - Willie Pep
5 - Jack Johnson
6 - Henry Armstrong
7 - Harry Greb
8 - Marvin Hagler
9 - Sugar Ray Leonard
10 - Pernell Whittaker

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 14 Oct 2005, 16:03

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Harry Greb
5. Willie Pep
6. Joe Louis
7. Roberto Duran
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Archie Moore
10. Sandy Saddler

Next couple:Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson, Jofre, Ray Leonard, Ketchel, Hagler, and Monzon.

Take into account, my list is far from cemented and may change significantly in a future post on pound for pound greatness.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 14 Oct 2005, 17:49

Grimm wrote:In any order.
Roberto Duran
Ray Robinson
Muhammad Ali
Henry Armstrong
Jimmy Wilde
Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
Sam Langford
J.C. Chavez
Ray Leonard.

Umm...

Didn't you say you rate Louis, and Holmes above Ali at heavy?

Louis was lighter than Ali, and Holmes was the same size...

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the contradiction here makes no sense.

theone · Post by **theone** » 14 Oct 2005, 19:01

:1. Sam Langford (a natural super middle he spent a career fighting heavyweights and light heavies.)
2. Henry Armstrong (Three titles simultaneously back when there were no bogus titles.)
3. Sugar Ray Robinson (Greatest welterweight of all time and top five middleweight.)

Those guys have to be 1-3. After that I'm not so sure of the order.

4. Roberto Duran
5. Harry Greb
6. Mickey Walker
7. Ray Leonard
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Emile Griffith
10. Gene Tunney

I know these list are subjective, but any p4p list without Ali anywhere on it, should not be taken serious.

theone · Post by **theone** » 14 Oct 2005, 19:04

Remember Clay fought at lightheavy in the Olympics and Patterson fought at middleweight in golden gloves.

And whats with calling him Clay?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 14 Oct 2005, 19:27

my top 10 greatest fighters of all time

1. sugar ray robinson
2. henry armstrong
3. Harry Greb
4. Joe Gans
5. Joe Louis
6. Sam Langford
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Muhammad Ali

just missed: joe walcott, benny leonard, sugar ray leonard, jimmy wilde

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Oct 2005, 21:02

Actually I'm open minded to seeing P4P lists without a single HW. However once people start to place heavies there the only two I think have any business at all in that zone is Ali and Louis.

There have just been too many smaller remarkable fighters. So when I see a P4P list with no Heavies I don't blink an eye.

theone · Post by **theone** » 14 Oct 2005, 21:26

Ali beat 6 hall of famers.(Im not counting Moore, who was waaay past his best.) Three of them(liston,Foreman,Frazier) are undisputable top ten heavyweights ever. Two of them(Patterson,Norton) could have an argument made for them being in the top ten. Three of those fighters were in their prime, while Ali was past his best. Ali also beat fighters(Quarry,Terrell,Ellis) who would have been dominant fighters and potential hall of famers in almost any other era. Throw in 19 total defenses of the heavyweight title and there should be no fair way to judge 10 other careers better than Ali's.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Oct 2005, 21:50

Well careers yes, and I am an Ali diehard so your preaching to the choir here. But if your really getting into the nitty gritty of talent and skill based on pound 4 pound I don't get rattled if peope stay away from the HW's.

I mean even the best pound for pound fighter maybe Robinson would not be able to beat any of the top 10 heavyweights of all time. but P4P means what can you do with what you got.

Ricardo Lopez could find himself on that list. I don't think HW's should sweat it if their name don't appear on the list. However Like I said Ali and Louis fit there fine in my mind.

theone · Post by **theone** » 14 Oct 2005, 22:02

I know what your saying boxbuzz, but i dont think its fair to penalize heavyweights in p4p rankings because they had no other weight class to fight in. However if you notice my picks, Ali and Louis are the only heavyweights on it.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 14 Oct 2005, 22:11

I cant think of single heavyweight who deserves to be on any P4P list. Certainly not Ali. He was the greatest HW in my opinion but he wasnt one of the top ten P4P GREATEST fighters of all time.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Oct 2005, 22:15

see here comes the klomper to make my point. However I don't get itchy when the p4p lists are sans HW's.

Now as for me....I would probably sneak a couple of them on that list, but only when klompton wasnt looking.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Oct 2005, 22:19

OH and hey theone, I think it's ok to speak of folks who have changed their name in their old names if you are referring to them pre name change. I have some friends who have filled me in on the respect of this.

For example you can call Ali, Clay if you are referring to him before he changed his name and there is no disrespect, if I have this right. I have been told this by folks walking that walk in life. Ali has alluded to it as well in an interview. He has even said "when I was Cassius Clay"

theone · Post by **theone** » 14 Oct 2005, 22:21

I cant think of single heavyweight who deserves to be on any P4P list. Certainly not Ali.

There is seriously no room on your top p4p list for Ali,who you even called the greatest heavyweight champion of all time? Please write your list down. I gotta see this.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 14 Oct 2005, 22:27

Check this SRR vid out. Looks like there's some welter footage on there

(recenyly stolen from elsewhere)

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0APU ... UV5UE6HHFZ