Marciano vs INGO 1960

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Nov 2005, 02:56

if this comeback happened what do u think would have happened???

marciano said "johannsens nothing, he looks like an amatuer, what the hell did i retire for"

even though rocky would be 38, and well past his prime, i think he would make sure he would get himselg into at least the best shape possibly and be able to KO the one dimensional crude shaky chin ingo johannsen. but maybe not, marciano probably was way to past his prime.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 13 Nov 2005, 03:13

rocky didn't like ingo because he considered him arrogant. he did talk briefly of a comeback mostly for that reason...but rocky knew himself well and was aware how important his fantatstic condition was to his ability, and dropped the idea. i am not one who is high on marciano as an alltime great (surprise!) but i think ingo was very very lucky that he didn't come along a few years sooner. marciano would have swatted him down like a fly.

Petu v.d. Pajm · Post by **Petu v.d. Pajm** » 13 Nov 2005, 03:23

Ingo would have kayoed Rocky inside 3, especially with Rocky coming out of retirement and without tune-up fights. While Ingo was one-dimensional, shaky-chinned, ill-conditioned etc., he still had punching power which NONE of Rocky's opponents could come even close of matching... Rocky ate punches in early rounds and his 49-0 was helped by the fact that he never met a true banger.

Marciano was a WAY superior fighter to Ingo, but Ingo would have had stylistically almost 50/50 chance even if their prime versions met.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 13 Nov 2005, 03:32

i think that is way off beam.i'd favour ingo at the time mentioned but prime v prime he'd get hammered.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Nov 2005, 03:51

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Ingo would have kayoed Rocky inside 3, especially with Rocky coming out of retirement and without tune-up fights. While Ingo was one-dimensional, shaky-chinned, ill-conditioned etc., he still had punching power which NONE of Rocky's opponents could come even close of matching... Rocky ate punches in early rounds and his 49-0 was helped by the fact that he never met a true banger.

Marciano was a WAY superior fighter to Ingo, but Ingo would have had stylistically almost 50/50 chance even if their prime versions met.

ur way off , rocky was at his best against big punchers, he had trouble with the fast stylist boxers, but the slow bigger target sluggers like nino vaaldez marciano was at his best against.

walcott was a hard hitter, and if u dont realize that than i dont know what to say.

- rex layne at the time was highly touted as the next champion and a hard hitter slugger.

- louis even at 38 still had KO power left at 6'2 215lb.

- archie moore was a much greater puncher than INGO, archie rated 4th greatest puncher all time by RING. archie one of the greatest finishers of all time

no way ingo has 50/50 chance against a prime marciano. theres really no rational way u could think that. if u do, i would like to know how??

how the hell was marciano suceptile to big punchers?? he NEVER showed any signs in his career.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Nov 2005, 03:56

rocky didn't like ingo because he considered him arrogant. he did talk briefly of a comeback mostly for that reason...

interesting jaclem, did marciano like patterson or liston??? marciano never spoke badly of his opponents, so he must have really not liked ingo.

what did marciano say of charles??

i have a tape of marciaano vs charles II with marciano going over the fight himself, and he said "here i am in the rematch with charles. in the first fight, charles was a muderer"

Petu v.d. Pajm · Post by **Petu v.d. Pajm** » 13 Nov 2005, 04:26

Moore (as a heavyweight), Walcott or Layne were never even close to same-class as a one-punch KO specialists as Ingo with his right hand. 38-year-old Louis was no longer a one-punch artist. Marciano's conditioning enabled him to beat people whose knockouts came from accumulated damage. BUT he never met a banger who could hit as hard with a single punch as Ingo did. Prime Louis would have, but Louis was FAR from prime.

Ingo's other deficiencies as a boxer + the fact that Americans only got to see him in Patterson fights make people forget that he had one weapon which ranks amongst BEST in heavyweight history (he hadn't much else).

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Nov 2005, 05:14

Petu v.d. Pajm wrote:Moore (as a heavyweight), Walcott or Layne were never even close to same-class as a one-punch KO specialists as Ingo with his right hand. 38-year-old Louis was no longer a one-punch artist. Marciano's conditioning enabled him to beat people whose knockouts came from accumulated damage. BUT he never met a banger who could hit as hard with a single punch as Ingo did. Prime Louis would have, but Louis was FAR from prime.

Ingo's other deficiencies as a boxer + the fact that Americans only got to see him in Patterson fights make people forget that he had one weapon which ranks amongst BEST in heavyweight history (he hadn't much else).

walcott would have kicked the shit out of ingo, so would charles and even moore if he doesnt get caught

walcott had close to as much power as ingo, and so what about his "right hand". HAMMER OF THOR MY ASS. INGO was not even close to an all time great, and he didnt have much besides a right hand. and i gaurantee if would have not landed on marciano and if it didnt it would NOT knockout rocky.

all of walcotts knockdowns or knockouts came from ONE PUNCH.

besides INGO had a bad chin, floyd patterson nearly killed him and totally exposed him. and brian london would have knocked him out if he wasnt saved by the bell on the canvas. imagine what rocky would do to him

38 year old shot louis still had power left, he recently knocked out top contender lee savold.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Nov 2005, 05:15

if u really think ingo can beat a prime marciano, then u terrinbly overate ingo or terrible underate marciano

i bet u dont rate marciano in ur top 20 heavies

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Nov 2005, 05:17

dalek wrote:i think that is way off beam.i'd favour ingo at the time mentioned but prime v prime he'd get hammered.

dalek u think ingo would beat marciano then?? u dont think marciano would have enough power left to disposs of ingo in 1960?

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 13 Nov 2005, 07:37

Marciano never seems to have faced a guy regarded as a really devastating puncher. It's hard to know if he could take the shots of some of the hardest hitters of various eras.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 13 Nov 2005, 08:41

In 1960, its definetely Ingo by TKO. Marciano would be too old, punchers don't usually last that long. Rocky would still have his power, but his punch resistance will have faded and could not go toe-to-toe with the younger, fresher bomber Ingo. Ref would stop a one sided bout in 6.

In their respective primes, Marciano by early KO, probably round 3. But Marciano would have to stay in his crouch and not get overanxious if he has Ingo in trouble. Ingo's right hand is definetly one of the strongest of all time and could even take out Rocky if it landed clean. Even with that, Rocky takes a prime matchup easily by early KO.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 13 Nov 2005, 09:35

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
dalek wrote:i think that is way off beam.i'd favour ingo at the time mentioned but prime v prime he'd get hammered.
dalek u think ingo would beat marciano then?? u dont think marciano would have enough power left to disposs of ingo in 1960?

i think marciano would have a chance but i doubt he could get himself in tiptop shape.that's why i favour ingo at this time.what is for certain is that prime marciano crushes any ingemar.infact marciano just before retirement or before lastarza1 wins easily as well.why does rocky get little respect from so many?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 13 Nov 2005, 11:54

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

rocky didn't like ingo because he considered him arrogant. he did talk briefly of a comeback mostly for that reason...

interesting jaclem, did marciano like patterson or liston??? marciano never spoke badly of his opponents, so he must have really not liked ingo.

what did marciano say of charles??

i have a tape of marciaano vs charles II with marciano going over the fight himself, and he said "here i am in the rematch with charles. in the first fight, charles was a muderer"

I don't think Marciano regarded Patterson that highly (though he never spoke badly about him as far as I can remember) but he was very impressed with Liston, as early as '58 Rocky was saying that he thought Liston could be champ and that he had the best jab he'd seen since Joe Louis. From what I know about Ingo he was really a good guy, rather than being a empty headed playboy as some think he was very intelligent (try getting his autobiography) but the Americans didn't really know what to make of him and also they weren't too happy with losing the world title. Ithink the Marciano thing might have been a bit of 'lets bring the title back to America' ...because noone really belived that Patterson would win the rematch.
Peak Marciano vs Ingo would have been a good fight but Rocky would have been too durable and strong and would win in about 7 or 8 rounds.... Ingo had good power but I don't see him blowing Rocky away.... he didn't have Liston or Foreman like power. If Rocky had comeback in '60 though Ingo may well have koed him as fighters like Marcinao are seldom the same once they lose their fitness and with ring rust and age I can see Ingo pulling off a ko win, but it would be a different story if both were in their primes.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 13 Nov 2005, 13:51

Assuming that Marciano didn't have any tune-up fights I would have to go with Johansson. 5 years without a fight it is just too long. Johansson would probably stop him in about 5 or 6 rounds, though I suppose you would have to give Marciano a remote puncher's chance.

If Marciano hadn't retired and had been fighting a couple of times a year he would have slowed down some by 1960, but probably would still have enough to beat Johansson.

Prime Marciano would have stopped Johansson fairly easily.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 13 Nov 2005, 15:13

I am not sure if Marciano liked Patterson during Patterson's two title reigns, but he seemed to like him after he lost the championship to Liston. When Marciano, Patterson, Don Dunphy, and the Marciano/Patterson biographer are breaking down Floyd's fight with Chuvalo, they seem quite friendly and Marciano is quite knowledgeable about Floyd's career and style.

Prime Marciano vs. Prime Ingo: Marciano KO 3 Johansson. Johansson had a terrible chin. He was knocked unconcious three times in two losses and a win! We are not talking TKOs or ten-counts that a fighter rises at 12. He was KO'd cold by Patterson twice in defeats, and KO'd cold by the terrible, terrible Brian London in the final four seconds of their fight but saved by the bell.

Everyone that reads my posts about Marciano probably realizes that I am overly hard on the guy. That being said, I think a 38-year old Marciano does have a chance against Ingo. All of the people saying Marciano could not getting into terrific shape are wrong. Just think of what shape Marciano worked himself into in just a short time for the FAKE Marciano vs. Ali computer fight. How old was Marciano then? 45 to 46 years old! Marciano would not need a tune up fight for Johansson. He would take Ingo's shots over four rounds, getting cut and shaken in the process, and KO the easy to hit Swede COLD in the fifth.

Coming back against Patterson and Liston are different stories altogether and I would not favor him against either in a comeback.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 14 Nov 2005, 10:49

I agree with pretty much everything Ambling Alp has to say on this subject. Johannson was a front runner if their ever was one. As long as everything was going swell, he looked pretty good, but he lacked the ability to fight back under extreme pressure. Once he tasted defeat for the first time, he was never the same again. I am a Marciano fan, but a 4 or 5 year lay off ? Look at Johnson - Jeffries, ... those who don't learn from the mistakes of the past are bound ro repeat them. Rocky was smart to retire when he did. As manager Al Lopez once said, It is better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late.

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 14 Nov 2005, 16:02

Petu v.d. Pajm wrote:Moore (as a heavyweight), Walcott or Layne were never even close to same-class as a one-punch KO specialists as Ingo with his right hand. 38-year-old Louis was no longer a one-punch artist. Marciano's conditioning enabled him to beat people whose knockouts came from accumulated damage. BUT he never met a banger who could hit as hard with a single punch as Ingo did. Prime Louis would have, but Louis was FAR from prime.

Ingo's other deficiencies as a boxer + the fact that Americans only got to see him in Patterson fights make people forget that he had one weapon which ranks amongst BEST in heavyweight history (he hadn't much else).

I've been on the record myself as thinking Marciano was the beneficiary of the era in which he fought. But I have to disagree with you that a 38-year-old Louis could not hit as hard as a prime Louis. Indeed he was older and slower and lacking the reflexes he once had. However, power is the last thing to go and I think a 38-year-old Louis, while not the fighter he once was, still had that one punch potential if he could manage to land the shot.

Not to stretch the point, but, if you look across other sports (I believe this is true of boxers as well), while one's prime athletic years would normally fall somewhere from early 20s to early to mid-30s, that's mainly true from the standpoint of aerobic capacity and reflexes. Indeed most 40-year-old athletes have already begun to lose some of the stamina and reflexes that made them the beasts they were at 30 ...

But physical strength actually increases into one's latter athletic years, provided that same 40-year-old athlete hasn't just entirely discontinued his regular training regimen. Athletes who continue to train continue to grow. Therefore, while they're nowhere near as durable and quick, they ARE physically stronger.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 14 Nov 2005, 16:09

kingpawn wrote:
Petu v.d. Pajm wrote:Moore (as a heavyweight), Walcott or Layne were never even close to same-class as a one-punch KO specialists as Ingo with his right hand. 38-year-old Louis was no longer a one-punch artist. Marciano's conditioning enabled him to beat people whose knockouts came from accumulated damage. BUT he never met a banger who could hit as hard with a single punch as Ingo did. Prime Louis would have, but Louis was FAR from prime.

Ingo's other deficiencies as a boxer + the fact that Americans only got to see him in Patterson fights make people forget that he had one weapon which ranks amongst BEST in heavyweight history (he hadn't much else).
I've been on the record myself as thinking Marciano was the beneficiary of the era in which he fought. But power is always the last thing to go, so I have to disagree with you that a 38-year-old Louis could not hit as hard as a prime Louis. Indeed he was older and slower and lacking the reflexes he once had. However, power is the last thing to go and I think a 38-year-old Louis, while not the fighter he once was, still had that one punch potential if he could manage to land the shot.

Not to stretch the point, but, if you look across other sports (I believe this is true of boxers as well), while one's prime athletic years would normally fall somewhere from early 20s to early to mid-30s, that's mainly true from the standpoint of aerobic capacity and reflexes. Indeed most 40-year-old athletes have already begun to lose some of the stamina and reflexes that made them the beasts they were at 30 ...

But physical strength actually increases into one's latter athletic years, provided that same 40-year-old athlete hasn't just entirely discontinued his regular training regimen. Athletes who continue to train continue to grow. Therefore, while they're nowhere near as durable and quick, they ARE physically stronger.

Power may stay but when the ability to fire the shots goes then its no good to you... also Louis used to rely on combinations at his prime and not single shots... when he got older the ability to throw the combinations went and he was a far weaker fighter for it. The majority of Louis last wins before he fought Marciano were all on points against guys he would have taken out in a few rounds in his prime. The Louis who fought Rocky was no more than 50% the fighter he was in his prime...

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 15 Nov 2005, 05:20

In 1960 I wouldn't be too surprised to see Johansson beat Rocky. But prime vs. prime I believe Marcioano would clobber him out fast.
Outside of the first Patterson fight, which was a fluke, and Eddie Machen, Johansson never beat a top heavy.

I don't think Johansson is underrated at all. His record speaks for itself, and it is not that of an all-time great. Why he is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame I will never understand. He was not a great fighter.

-KOKid-

cybox · Post by **cybox** » 16 Nov 2005, 16:32

as far as Ingo being champ, he was in the right place at the right time. After the win for the title against patterson, he did nothing.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 17 Nov 2005, 02:31

...plus..when you look at thr patterson fights...and i'm including the first one...that "toonder and lightning" right hand of his may be the most over rated for power punch in all the heavyweights.

back up for opinion on request.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » 17 Nov 2005, 10:44

1960

Coming back after a lay off with NO tune up fights then Ingo inside 5.

Remember even at his peak Rocky was a slow starter and his relentless punching power wore his opponents down.

For this reason alone I think the Swede has ha good chance of stopping Rocky inside 5. Either that or a UD for Ingo, but after such a long lay off Rocky doesn't have the stamina to go the distance and Ingo then catches him late. So Ing oto win.

At their prime

NO CONTEST

I don't have Ingo in my top 20, Rocky is up there among the greats.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 17 Nov 2005, 12:38

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: all of walcotts knockdowns or knockouts came from ONE PUNCH.

Doesn't everybody's? To me, a one-punch KO is unexpected. Two guys sparring, throwing jabs, suddenly over comes a right hand or left hook and the one guy is knocked out cold. Most guys need to land some cumulative damage before they can finish a guy. Even Marciano.

Oh. Ingo in 8.

Cap

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 17 Nov 2005, 14:18

Remember even at his peak Rocky was a slow starter and his relentless punching power wore his opponents down

yeah gordon, did u have realize how rocky kind of changes his style late in his career??

Marciano was both types of a KO artist. You ever noticed the change? After the first Walcott fight, his style changed. The best comparison I heard someone use was "Before Walcott he was the Atomic Bomb. After Walcott he was the pneumatic drill."

Look at the Layne, Matthews, Louis and Walcott, lastarza fights, then compare them to the LaStarza, Charles, Cockell and Moore fights, there's a difference.

However, towards the end of his career, Goldman tinkered with his style. In his fights with Layne, Louis, Savold, Matthews, and Walcott, Marciano constantly winds up with one enormous haymaker after another. Then, in his defenses against LaStarza, Charles, Cockell, and Moore, his style changed somewhat, to where instead of loading up his entire body into every shot looking for a one-punch KO, he slightly decreased the power he put into each shot and increased the volume of punches he threw, fighting as more of an accumulation/volume puncher.

the 51-52 marciano was a onepunch KOartist sluggger. the 54-55 marciano was a grind u down type guy.

that said marciano never came out of condition, even a 46 year old marciano against ali. i have no doubt hell get into excellent shape.
Ingo was not a great fighter, so marciano will definetley have a chance even off the long layoff. i dont no however if rock would have enough left.

- he didnt respect ingo at all it seemed, cause he never thought about coming out of retirement to fight liston and patterson.

marciano spoke well of liston and even said one time he would dred ever getting in the ring with liston.

in 66 marciano was offered an incredible 4 million to fight ali. marciano thought about it but wisely turned it down as he would have been no match for a peak ali and we would have seen an even worse mismatch than johnson-jeffries.

Marciano vs INGO 1960

Marciano vs INGO 1960

punching power

Marciano- Johansson