Your opinion on Boxings biggest overachiver and underachiver

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 24 Jan 2006, 02:04

Who overachived? Who dissapointed? For example fighters who had great amateur backrounds and or physical gifts but didnt make it, and fighters who did not have gifted physical ability and or came out of nowhere to become champs.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Jan 2006, 05:15

Mark Breland was touted as the next big thing. He won some alpha titles but was never the fighter he was purported as being.

I think a lot of Olympic gold medalists are over hyped and so seem to underachieve. Biggs and Harrison are two that come to mind.

barry · Post by **barry** » 24 Jan 2006, 05:57

Good call with Breland! Many said that he was the best amateur fighter ever, which with his record it would be hard to argue against. Touted as highly as any fighter history he still managed to have a successful career, just not the Hall of Fame/Greatest Boxer since Robinson that many expected! Howard Davis is another that fell way short of what many predicted!

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Jan 2006, 06:01

barry wrote:Good call with Breland! Many said that he was the best amateur fighter ever, which with his record it would be hard to argue against. Touted as highly as any fighter history he still managed to have a successful career, just not the Hall of Fame/Greatest Boxer since Robinson that many expected! Howard Davis is another that fell way short of what many predicted!

Spot on about Davis.

I always thought Davis was a very skillful guy with a light punch and so-so chin. Breland on the other hand looked like a decent fighter but nothing special. I think maybe he lacked self-confidence. I saw him in a few interviews and he dodn't have that aura about him that one sees in the greats.

Like you say Barry, he still had a good career just not as good as we expected.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 24 Jan 2006, 06:38

Leon Spinks? I know he won the world title but hardly had the pro career he should have

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 24 Jan 2006, 08:53

I always thought Greg Page was a big time under acheiver. Buster Dougless given the fact he beat Tyson in his best fight and went bust in other fights could classify him as an under acheiver.

Over acheivers you could say Archie Moore simply on the basis he fought until he was fifty years old. Jim Braddock for his comeback against all odds. Marciano a guy who started late and lacked some of the physical attributes. Also guys like Iran Barkley, Buster Drayton, Harold Braizier, and Little Red Lopez.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 24 Jan 2006, 11:21

Greg Page, for me, was the biggest underachiever.Multitalented, and had a couple breaks go his way, and still didn't turn out like he was supposed to. Donald Curry, Hector Camacho, and to a very lesser extent maybe Howard Davis Jr. and Bernard Taylor (who in truth, weren't built for the pro game), come to mind.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 24 Jan 2006, 11:23

Heres a couple, Johnny Owen overachiever. Andrew Maynard , Underachiver

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Jan 2006, 11:23

Nile4000 wrote:Greg Page, for me, was the biggest underachiever.Multitalented, and had a couple breaks go his way, and still didn't turn out like he was supposed to. Donald Curry, Hector Camacho, and to a very lesser extent maybe Howard Davis Jr. and Bernard Taylor (who in truth, weren't built for the pro game), come to mind.

Bernard Taylor was definitely a fighter who deserved an Alpha title, good call. He was a very fine boxer.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 24 Jan 2006, 12:53

Great overachievers: Evander Holyfield and Rocky Marciano. A pretty good overachiever was Trevor Berbick. The guy was tough, but not a naturally talented guy. He won a world title against an extremely talented (and major underachiever) Pinklon Thomas and was only stopped twice in 62 bouts against two major punchers.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 24 Jan 2006, 14:30

Decagon wrote:He sure tried his damnest to get up from that shot by Tyson.

He tried three times!

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 24 Jan 2006, 15:02

Tony Galento is one of the all-time great overachievers. An old, fat, bald guy comes within a few seconds of winning the world title from a consensus top 3 all-time heavyweight.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 24 Jan 2006, 15:04

iceman21287 wrote:Tony Galento is one of the all-time great overachievers. An old, fat, bald guy comes within a few seconds of winning the world title from a consensus top 3 all-time heavyweight.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 24 Jan 2006, 19:17

iceman21287 wrote:Tony Galento is one of the all-time great overachievers. An old, fat, bald guy comes within a few seconds of winning the world title from a consensus top 3 all-time heavyweight.

I have to disagree. Louis was never in any danger of being stopped.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 24 Jan 2006, 19:29

For underachiever I'd definitely say Andrew Golota. If you could have put Evander Holyfield's heart in Golota's body, you'd have an alltime great. He really had the ability to takeover the division, and right up until after his second fight with Bowe he had real fighting spirit. Just watch those fights and you'll see a guy who get's nailed and then fires back combinations with a vengeance. And the first knockdowns of Bowe and Michael Grant were punches that just came out of nowhere.

I'd also list David Tua as a major disappointment. One of the best chins ever, with a big punch, but he just can't put it togather because he's lazy and doesn't bodypunch.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 24 Jan 2006, 19:52

Over. Lew Jenkins. James J Braddock. Joe Walcott. Buster Drayton.

Under. Pete Rademacher. Duane Bobick. Kelcie Banks. Jerry Page.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 24 Jan 2006, 20:50

expug wrote:Heres a couple, Johnny Owen overachiever. Andrew Maynard , Underachiver

Johnny The Matchstick Owen, excellent choice. I say you could make an argument for him as the number one over acheiver.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 24 Jan 2006, 20:53

Here are a couple more. Matthew Saad Mahomed, Bazooka Limon, Vito Antuformo over acheivers.
Edwin Rosario, James Broad, Dwight Davidson under acheivers.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 24 Jan 2006, 23:26

kick asner wrote:Here are a couple more. Matthew Saad Mahomed, Bazooka Limon, Vito Antuformo over acheivers.
Edwin Rosario, James Broad, Dwight Davidson under acheivers.

Saad Muhamed was an orphan found on the steets. He had to overcome a helluva lot to make it. good choice.

perrycarter · Post by **perrycarter** » 25 Jan 2006, 00:38

under: Zab Judah (so far), Max Baer, David Bey, Thad Spencer, David Reid (not his fault, eye injury), Leon Spinks, Audley Harrison, Emanuel Augustus, Meldrick Taylor, Lawrence Cley-Bey, Buster Douglas

over: Carlos Baldomir, Gene Fullmer, Primo Carnera, Glen Johnson, Iran Barkley, Montell Griffin, Carlos Maussa, Juan Diaz

Owain · Post by **Owain** » 06 Mar 2006, 19:45

kick asner wrote:
expug wrote:Heres a couple, Johnny Owen overachiever. Andrew Maynard , Underachiver
Johnny The Matchstick Owen, excellent choice. I say you could make an argument for him as the number one over acheiver.

I missed this thread first time around, hence the late reply.

Pardon my bias, but you two are talking absolute bollocks!

I assume you think Johnny 'over-achieved' because of the outcome of the Pintor fight but you fail to consider that the outcome was due to John having a particularly thin skull, therefore the accident that befell him could have happened at ANY TIME - NOT because he was fighting Pintor.

John was British, Commonwealth & European Champion at a time when those belts really meant something - he was champion of half the world. There was no-one in Europe or the Commonwealth who had even a realistic chance of beating him at the time. He gave Pintor ( a well respected world champion) all he could handle for 9 rounds and was ahead up to that point - and you think he 'over-achieved'!!!!!

Pintor's own words, "We had a great fight; it was a gentleman's fight. I don't know what the decision would have been had the fight gone to the end. But, I would have respected the decision if it had gone to Johnny because it was a gentleman's fight".

Johnny ACHIEVED world class status, 3 major titles and respect from everyone. That's real achievement.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 06 Mar 2006, 19:50

Hey Pal, my reason for including Owen was because he had such a thin frame , was very frail looking but still became an outstanding fighter. Accomplished alot. I was being very complimentary to the guy. The mistake you made is when you assumed something. My mention of Owen had absolutely nothing to do with the Pintor fight.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 06 Mar 2006, 20:13

I agree a second time with expug. It depends on how you define over acheiver. I define it as a guy doing exceptional things while displaying such attributes as grit, determination, a strong work ethic, and the will to win, while on the other hand only possesing a moderate amount of natural ability. A guy can be a world champion for ten years and still be an over acheiver.

Owain · Post by **Owain** » 06 Mar 2006, 20:15

Fair enough mate. I should know better than to make assumptions; but I think it was a fair assumption to make even if I am wrong. Apologies.

Though, I think I can see where you are coming from I still have to disagree. His build/frame has nothing to do with him 'over-achieving'. Although he undoubtedly did look frail, he was immensely strong (both physically and mentally), fantastically fit and had a style that most boxers found hard to cope with.

Rather than 'over-achieved' I would just say that it's a case of looks being deceptive. To say he 'over-achieved', in my view, is to take away all that he did achieve.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 06 Mar 2006, 20:19

We just may have slightly differint definitions of overachieve, but we are in agreement about Owen being an outstanding fighter, and more importantly from what I understand, a wonderful guy.

Your opinion on Boxings biggest overachiver and underachiver

Your opinion on Boxings biggest overachiver and underachiver

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