Harold johnson challenging for heavyweight crown

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Feb 2006, 13:38

how come he never made a run at marcianos title? i never heard of this potential johnson vs marciano matchup being made. i dont understand why. johnson was a heavyweight killer. he shutout nino valdes 10 rounds to Zero, beat clarence henry, bob satterfield, HOF jimmy bivins, wayne bethea all these guys top contenders. even past his prime harold johnson beat eddie machen considered a top 50 heavy.

It seems like johnson just wasnt interested in the heavyweight crown and was more after archie moores crown.

i think a 1954 marciano vs johnson matchup would have been a great title fight

even later on, a patterson-johnson title fight would have been a great fight, but it was never made!

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 06 Feb 2006, 14:19

Harold Johnson may well have had the best physique I have ever seen on a Light-Heavyweigh.

I've heard that although he is know an old man he is still an impressive figure of a man. A years or so ago he got into an arguement with a much young man who lived in his apartment block in philadelphia. This fellow made the stupid mistake of calling Harold "punchy". Harold then KO'd him with one punch.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 06 Feb 2006, 14:25

Willie Pastrano once said that he considered Harold Johnson "a Fighters Fighter". Thats a compliment.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Feb 2006, 15:11

Johnson would have beaten Patterson I think... he just couldn't get the fights at either heavyweight or Light-heavy. There was talk of Johnson challenging Ali after he finally won the Lightheavy title but then the Pastrano loss koed that. Ali would have been to fast for Johnson.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Feb 2006, 15:21

silkov wrote:Johnson would have beaten Patterson I think... he just couldn't get the fights at either heavyweight or Light-heavy. There was talk of Johnson challenging Ali after he finally won the Lightheavy title but then the Pastrano loss koed that. Ali would have been to fast for Johnson.

i would take patterson over johnson, especially a past his prime johnson. johnson was washed up when he faced pastrano.

a great title fight would have been a prime johnson vs marciano in 53 or 54

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Feb 2006, 15:37

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
silkov wrote:Johnson would have beaten Patterson I think... he just couldn't get the fights at either heavyweight or Light-heavy. There was talk of Johnson challenging Ali after he finally won the Lightheavy title but then the Pastrano loss koed that. Ali would have been to fast for Johnson.

i would take patterson over johnson, especially a past his prime johnson. johnson was washed up when he faced pastrano.

a great title fight would have been a prime johnson vs marciano in 53 or 54

Johnson wasn't washed up in the late 50s though, he could have outboxed or even Koed Patterson, Johnson had a great punch as well as skill.
I think he would have given Rocky a very tough bout though Rockys extra strength may have got him though in the end, I think if it went the distance Johnson would have won on points.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Feb 2006, 18:15

silkov wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
silkov wrote:Johnson would have beaten Patterson I think... he just couldn't get the fights at either heavyweight or Light-heavy. There was talk of Johnson challenging Ali after he finally won the Lightheavy title but then the Pastrano loss koed that. Ali would have been to fast for Johnson.

i would take patterson over johnson, especially a past his prime johnson. johnson was washed up when he faced pastrano.

a great title fight would have been a prime johnson vs marciano in 53 or 54
Johnson wasn't washed up in the late 50s though, he could have outboxed or even Koed Patterson, Johnson had a great punch as well as skill.
I think he would have given Rocky a very tough bout though Rockys extra strength may have got him though in the end, I think if it went the distance Johnson would have won on points.

i disagree, rocky clearly outpointed charles over 15 rounds and dominated archie moore over 9 rounds winning and being well ahead before stopping moore. remember, archie moore outpointed johnson 4 times and knocked out johnson. so i think its safe to say whether it goes to distance or not, rocky wins. rocky is very tough to outpoint over 15 rounds because his work rate and non stop punching.

- i cant see johnson beating patterson. patterson was a helluva fighter, and all time great heavy and patterson knocked out moore who stopped harold johnson. patterson was too fast and powerful for johnson IMO

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Feb 2006, 18:27

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
silkov wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
i would take patterson over johnson, especially a past his prime johnson. johnson was washed up when he faced pastrano.

a great title fight would have been a prime johnson vs marciano in 53 or 54
Johnson wasn't washed up in the late 50s though, he could have outboxed or even Koed Patterson, Johnson had a great punch as well as skill.
I think he would have given Rocky a very tough bout though Rockys extra strength may have got him though in the end, I think if it went the distance Johnson would have won on points.

i disagree, rocky clearly outpointed charles over 15 rounds and dominated archie moore over 9 rounds winning and being well ahead before stopping moore. remember, archie moore outpointed johnson 4 times and knocked out johnson. so i think its safe to say whether it goes to distance or not, rocky wins. rocky is very tough to outpoint over 15 rounds because his work rate and non stop punching.

- i cant see johnson beating patterson. patterson was a helluva fighter, and all time great heavy and patterson knocked out moore who stopped harold johnson. patterson was too fast and powerful for johnson IMO

I'm getting the feeling that you just disagree with everything I say for the hell of it but, anyway, Johnson is a different guy to Moore... Johnson would have boxed Marciano like noone ever did, you should notice that I said Rocky may probably be too strong but if it went the distance then Johnson would win because he would have OUTBOXED Marciano, he wouldn't have slugged it out like Moore and Charles... he also wouldn't have gone into the fight overweight like Moore did and so could probably have withstood Rockys attacks better. Johnson had one of the best jabs I've seen and had speed on his side too....

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Feb 2006, 18:38

gotcha, why do u think johnson would beat patterson. patterson is most likely a top 20 heavyweight of all time, and he was a greater puncher and was faster than johnson and i dont think johnson could deal with pattersons combination of speed and power. patterson also had a very solid boxing skills too and could outbox top notches like ellis(robbed) , quarry(robbed), machen

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Feb 2006, 18:51

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:gotcha, why do u think johnson would beat patterson. patterson is most likely a top 20 heavyweight of all time, and he was a greater puncher and was faster than johnson and i dont think johnson could deal with pattersons combination of speed and power. patterson also had a very solid boxing skills too and could outbox top notches like ellis(robbed) , quarry(robbed), machen

But I'm talking about the Patterson of the late 50s... I think he was a better fighter after he was champion, the Patterson who fought Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena and Chuvalo was a better fighter (stronger, more durable and more confident) than he was during his title reigns. I think Johnson would have punched too hard for Patterson in the late 50s... also Johnsons jab would have kept Patterson on the outside and not allowed him to get set to land his combinations...

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Feb 2006, 18:57

silkov wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:gotcha, why do u think johnson would beat patterson. patterson is most likely a top 20 heavyweight of all time, and he was a greater puncher and was faster than johnson and i dont think johnson could deal with pattersons combination of speed and power. patterson also had a very solid boxing skills too and could outbox top notches like ellis(robbed) , quarry(robbed), machen
But I'm talking about the Patterson of the late 50s... I think he was a better fighter after he was champion, the Patterson who fought Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena and Chuvalo was a better fighter (stronger, more durable and more confident) than he was during his title reigns. I think Johnson would have punched too hard for Patterson in the late 50s... also Johnsons jab would have kept Patterson on the outside and not allowed him to get set to land his combinations...

i share that same opinion about patterson so it looks like we finally agree on something!

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 07 Feb 2006, 03:05

...the reason johnson never fought patterson is because cus damato wasn't crazy. the match was talked about but cus said no thank you. marciano would have been too strong for harold. i think johnson was one of the great all time fighters...but he didn't have the best chin ...and he knew it..once he said he got criticized for being "too careful" and and admitted when he took too many chances it sometimes backfired.

harold was robbed against pastrano....willie was told all he had to do was stay out of the way and go the distance and the title was his....and johnson never got the rematch he deserved. he was a badly managed fighter....and i shall let it go at that.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Feb 2006, 10:30

Decagon wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:gotcha, why do u think johnson would beat patterson. patterson is most likely a top 20 heavyweight of all time, and he was a greater puncher and was faster than johnson and i dont think johnson could deal with pattersons combination of speed and power. patterson also had a very solid boxing skills too and could outbox top notches like ellis(robbed) , quarry(robbed), machen
Why do you think Johnson would beat Charles, most likely a top 20 heavyweight of all time? Why do you think Johnson would beat Moore, most likely a top 30 heavyweight of all time?

Johnson almost did beat Moore the last time they fought, he was well ahead on points when Archie koed him in the 14th.... Moore never gave him another shot. Johnson beat a lot of the top heavies as well as Light-heavies in his prime, but was mercilessly ducked by the champs with the excuse often being that Johnson was 'dull'.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 07 Feb 2006, 15:49

Johnson could have.....and of course Archie should have.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 07 Feb 2006, 16:07

BoxBuzz wrote:Johnson could have.....and of course Archie should have.

archie should have got a rematch vs patterson. archie wasnt 100% going into the patterson fight and had personel problems that were in the way. archie himself wanted to call the fight off in the dressing room thats how unprepared he was. archie soundily outboxed patterson the first 4 rounds, the patterson knocked him out. but a rematch would have been a much closer fight though i favor patterson.

silov, johnson wasnt 'well ahead' vs moore. it was an even fight going into the 14th round

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 08 Feb 2006, 15:35

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Johnson could have.....and of course Archie should have.
silov, johnson wasnt 'well ahead' vs moore. it was an even fight going into the 14th round

I'd second that Johnson was not "well ahead"....but it's academic since Johnson's head was rolling by fights end. Just another notch on the all time KO' leaders belt.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 11 Feb 2006, 01:28

silkov wrote:
Decagon wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:gotcha, why do u think johnson would beat patterson. patterson is most likely a top 20 heavyweight of all time, and he was a greater puncher and was faster than johnson and i dont think johnson could deal with pattersons combination of speed and power. patterson also had a very solid boxing skills too and could outbox top notches like ellis(robbed) , quarry(robbed), machen
Why do you think Johnson would beat Charles, most likely a top 20 heavyweight of all time? Why do you think Johnson would beat Moore, most likely a top 30 heavyweight of all time?
Johnson almost did beat Moore the last time they fought, he was well ahead on points when Archie koed him in the 14th.... Moore never gave him another shot. Johnson beat a lot of the top heavies as well as Light-heavies in his prime, but was mercilessly ducked by the champs with the excuse often being that Johnson was 'dull'.

No, the Moore-Johnson title fight was even on the cards going into the 14th. And Moore certainly didn't "duck" Johnson- he fought him five times! When you've already beaten the guy four times in five fights, I think it's safe to say yet another rematch is getting well past the point of monotony.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 11 Feb 2006, 01:33

Trivia, Jersey Joe K.Od both Harold Johnson and his Father Phil.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 16 Feb 2006, 13:28

Their was talk of a Patterson- Johnson fight around 61. It would have been a good fight, but Floyd would have won it. Johnson's problem was he
was too big a risk for the amount of money you'd make fighting him. I'm sure that's why he never got a return with Moore around 59 when he likely would have beaten him. Harold was not a big draw. Part of the problem was he was black, & the other, he was good. What he wasn't was lucky.

Harold johnson challenging for heavyweight crown

Harold johnson challenging for heavyweight crown

Johnson vs. Hwt Champs