Tyson Could've Been The Greatest, Hands Down.

damien590 · Post by **damien590** » 08 Feb 2006, 00:07

I've uploaded alot of Mike's bouts from the amatuers on to his pro
career & if he had stayed straight, he could've had 30 defenses by the
time he was 32yrs old.

30 fornicating defenses by age 32yrs. He let pussy & Don King ruin his
greatness. He was much better than Ali IMO & to see what I'm talking
about. Look at how advanced Mike was at the age of 15yrs in some of
his amatuer bouts. Mike fought like he has was holding a place in Cus's
home. lol! He was fighting for free room & board!

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 08 Feb 2006, 02:53

Decagon wrote:Tyson would've been the best ever if he could fight for twelve rounds the way he did for four. Don King didn't make Tyson the way he was; he had flaws, like any other fighter. Maybe he could have learned to overcome those flaws, but he never did.

Exactly. Watch Tyson's fight with Quick Tillis. Tyson won the fight, but it was pretty damn close, and Quick Tillis made Tyson look like an amateur at times. If Tillis could do that to Tyson, then Ali would absolutely destroy him. I mean, shit, look how Ali handled Joe Frazier, and Ali was well past his prime in all three of those fights. A prime Ali would absolutely dismantle a prime Tyson.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 08 Feb 2006, 08:53

Tyson, Tyson, Tyson! Was good in a bad era and always had trouble against good, big fighters who were not scared. Tyson is a myth!

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 08 Feb 2006, 09:00

Arsenal wrote:Tyson, Tyson, Tyson! Was good in a bad era and always had trouble against good, big fighters who were not scared. Tyson is a myth!

Thank you

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 08 Feb 2006, 11:54

No Problem!

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:00

iceman21287 wrote:
Decagon wrote:Tyson would've been the best ever if he could fight for twelve rounds the way he did for four. Don King didn't make Tyson the way he was; he had flaws, like any other fighter. Maybe he could have learned to overcome those flaws, but he never did.
Exactly. Watch Tyson's fight with Quick Tillis. Tyson won the fight, but it was pretty damn close, and Quick Tillis made Tyson look like an amateur at times. If Tillis could do that to Tyson, then Ali would absolutely destroy him. I mean, shit, look how Ali handled Joe Frazier, and Ali was well past his prime in all three of those fights. A prime Ali would absolutely dismantle a prime Tyson.

tyson was still 19 years old and had not yet reached his best when he fought tillis. kind of like frazier-bonavena I, or marciano-lastarza I

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:12

Arsenal wrote:Tyson, Tyson, Tyson! Was good in a bad era and always had trouble against good, big fighters who were not scared. Tyson is a myth!

u mean

6'5 221lb tony tucker who he easily outpointed?

or

6'4 233lb bonecrusher smith or he shutout?

or

6'3 228lb frank bruno

6'3 238lb razor ruddock

6'3 225lb larry holmes

6'3 238lb tony tubbs

6'5 218lb carl williams

6'4 240lb andrew golota

6'5 228lb tyrell biggs

all good big fighters and dont gimme that scared crap. besides bonecrusher, none of them were really scared. and even if they were, intimidation is part of the game.

was norton scared of foreman?

was patterson scared of liston?

is so should we take away some of the credit to these victories?

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:27

The guys who went the distance with him were far better than the bums he fought for years! Tyrell Biggs are you serious? Why don't people except that when Tyson was in his prime he was fighting in a bad era. But when he fought Holyfield wasn't he apparently back to his best? I just wish that Tyson had fought Lewis when he was in his prime because then the myth would have been well and truly blown apart! What happened against Douglas? And don't give me the crap about he wasn't prepared? I could say the same when Lewis fought McCall and Rahman. But there is one thing that I will always bring up about Tyson when people say he was great and could have been the best...he never avenged his defeats which is the mark of true champion. In fact he got battered twicw by Holyfield! What was Tyson's career defining fight? When did he beat another guy who people could say was one of the best? Never!

barry · Post by **barry** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:34

>>>I just wish that Tyson had fought Lewis when he was in his prime because then the myth would have been well and truly blown apart!<<<

Tyson would have absolutely destroyed Lennox Lewis, who in his prime had did all he could against an old, worn out Holyfield, and still just barely won. The pre-jail Tyson would have walked right through glass-jaw Lewis.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:41

Ha ha. If you think so! You Americans and Tyson! I suppose Buster Douglas was a fluke and Tyson hadn't trained at all for the fight! I've got to laugh at people who know so much about boxing and still think Tyson was one of the best.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:46

The problem with this thread isn't that Tyson didn't amass a decent record. It's to do with the usual talk about "he could have been the best ever". Tyson's probelms have been documented way back. The ridiculous fist fight with Mitch Green being a great example. Tyson was unhinged. This gave him his ferocity and his terrifying ring presence. It made him a top fighter but it also made him psychologically vulnerable to someone who could step back and see him as a man and not some unbeatable mythical monster.

Tyson was not messed up by King and Givens. They didn't help but he was always messed up as the incident with Green (plus countless others) proves. Tyson was built up so much in the public's collective imagination (just as Liston was) that it's impossible to separate the man in the ring from the perception of him as person.

Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Holmes, etc... all got dropped and got up to win in fights. They all overcame tough fights to win. Mike couldn't do this. Even if he'd have not gone to prison, trained like a maniac 25 hours a day and lived like a monk he'd still have not had 30 defences because he was mentally fragile. Boxing is a lot more than who punches hardest and fastest.

barry · Post by **barry** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:52

>>>I suppose Buster Douglas was a fluke and Tyson hadn't trained at all for the fight!<<<

Well if you think that Tyson was primed, ready and in any kind of actual condition for that bout then stupid doesn't cover what comes to mind. I guess you probably rank Lewis in your top five...right...that can sometimes happen when you only have one champion every 100 years or so to represent...it doesn't matter that Lewis was knocked out by two moderatley good heavyweights while in his prime...not once, but twice. A prime Tyson would absolutely destroy Lennox Lewis...the only way Lewis could beat Tyson is to do as he did and wait until Tyson is about 15 years past his prime and then go after him because a young Tyson would definately..."Eat his Children!"

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:58

still,tyson avoided lewis for a while going after the safer option of holy.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Feb 2006, 12:58

What was Tyson's career defining fight?

michael spinx fight, that was a huge ballyhooed fight that some though spinx could win and it was by far the most important of mikes career when he was at his best and look what happened.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:00

dalek wrote:still,tyson avoided lewis for a while going after the safer option of holy.

tyson wasnt in his prime then

a peak 86-88 tyson knocks out lennox within 5 rounds IMHO

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:00

barry wrote:>>>I suppose Buster Douglas was a fluke and Tyson hadn't trained at all for the fight!<<<

Well if you think that Tyson was primed, ready and in any kind of actual condition for that bout then stupid doesn't cover what comes to mind. I guess you probably rank Lewis in your top five...right...that can sometimes happen when you only have one champion every 100 years or so to represent...it doesn't matter that Lewis was knocked out by two moderatley good heavyweights while in his prime...not once, but twice. A prime Tyson would absolutely destroy Lennox Lewis...the only way Lewis could beat Tyson is to do as he did and wait until Tyson is about 15 years past his prime and then go after him because a young Tyson would definately..."Eat his Children!"

i agree

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:00

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
What was Tyson's career defining fight?
michael spinx fight, that was a huge ballyhooed fight that some though spinx could win and it was by far the most important of mikes career when he was at his best and look what happened.

i don't think more than a handful of people on the whole planet thought spinks had a chance.who picked him?

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:02

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
dalek wrote:still,tyson avoided lewis for a while going after the safer option of holy.

tyson wasnt in his prime then

a peak 86-88 tyson knocks out lennox within 5 rounds IMHO

i didn't say it was his prime.but it was as early as lennox could possibly have fought him.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:07

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
dalek wrote:still,tyson avoided lewis for a while going after the safer option of holy.

tyson wasnt in his prime then

a peak 86-88 tyson knocks out lennox within 5 rounds IMHO

either that or he gets KO'd some time after the 10th.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:14

its possible mike stops him and while i would slightly favour him over lewis in a direct matchup i wouldn't be all that confident.lennox got ko'd twice in his career,but he wasn't as good a fighter when losing to mccall.when losing to rahman everyone knows he was making oceans eleven when he should have been acclimatising.tyson can be excused for douglas but lennox can't for rahman?

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:16

Ezzard wrote:The problem with this thread isn't that Tyson didn't amass a decent record. It's to do with the usual talk about "he could have been the best ever". Tyson's probelms have been documented way back. The ridiculous fist fight with Mitch Green being a great example. Tyson was unhinged. This gave him his ferocity and his terrifying ring presence. It made him a top fighter but it also made him psychologically vulnerable to someone who could step back and see him as a man and not some unbeatable mythical monster.

Tyson was not messed up by King and Givens. They didn't help but he was always messed up as the incident with Green (plus countless others) proves. Tyson was built up so much in the public's collective imagination (just as Liston was) that it's impossible to separate the man in the ring from the perception of him as person.

Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Holmes, etc... all got dropped and got up to win in fights. They all overcame tough fights to win. Mike couldn't do this. Even if he'd have not gone to prison, trained like a maniac 25 hours a day and lived like a monk he'd still have not had 30 defences because he was mentally fragile. Boxing is a lot more than who punches hardest and fastest.

This post is outstanding. I dont think Iron Mike would argue with it. And to his credit I dont really recall Tyson making alot of excuses.

barry · Post by **barry** » 08 Feb 2006, 13:46

>>>when losing to rahman everyone knows he was making oceans eleven when he should have been acclimatising.<<<

Making Ocean's Eleven? Let's be real...he spent maybe, maybe half a day of filming and all he had to do was walk to the ring and act like he was listening to instructions...it's not like he had to really take any time out for the small bit he played. Sorry, but if he was out of sorts because of one very small, non-talking role in a film that took less than a day of his time, then he is even worse than many already suspect and that is one excuse that I would not try to argue on his behalf. Truth is, Lewis came into the Rahman fight with the same kind of focus and training that Tyson went into that Douglas fight with, though Tyson sure had a hell of a lot more going on in his life at the time than Lewis did.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 08 Feb 2006, 14:06

Mike Tyson's fighting style did not lend itself to longevity.

He is typical of that type of fighter; devastating & explosive for a brief period, then fades quickly.

Couple that with his lack of fighting heart, no plan B & poorish stamina, means he could never have been the greatest ever.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Feb 2006, 14:13

what was so poor about tysons stamina? he showed he could nearly shutout good boxers like tony tucker.

tysons stamina was certainly better than sonny listons

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 08 Feb 2006, 14:17

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:what was so poor about tysons stamina? he showed he could nearly shutout good boxers like tony tucker.

tysons stamina was certainly better than sonny listons

How many times did Tyson KO an opponent after 6 rounds?

His stamina was not brilliant. He was devastating for the first half of a fight, but if you took him past 6, you had a great chance against him.

Sonny Liston is another argument altogether.

Tyson Could've Been The Greatest, Hands Down.

Tyson Could've Been The Greatest, Hands Down.

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