Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 10 Feb 2006, 22:55

Jack Dempsey in his prime is undoubtedly one of the top 10 heavyweights of all time. Even such men as Gene Tunney said that Dempsey could have defeated Joe Louis.

I know the weights back then were far more different, a Heavyweight back then was 176 pounds and up---now the weight class is 210 and up.

But Jack Dempsey was also known as a giant killer. Outside of Jess Willard who was 6'6" 245 pounds, he knocked out such men as Fred Fulton (6'5" 230 pounds), Carl Morris (6'4" 240 pounds), Luis Firpo (6'3" 230 pounds)---among several other exhibitions against men 200 pounds or more.

While Jack Dempsey was no more than 175 pounds, his highest weight was roughly 198 pounds. The Morris fights were very short and he also knocked out Fulton in 18 seconds!

In my mind Dempsey would rule over both the Light Heavyweight and Cruiserweight Divisions in this day and age---but putting him with the Heavyweights of today, would be somewhat difficult.

Placing him in with Byrd would be likened to the Tommy Gibbons fight, and would be extremely dull---but place him in with Klitschko or Ruiz I would believe you would get a pretty good brawl with Dempsey winning on points or a knock out mid way.

As far as Valuev is concerned---I believe Dempsey would tear him apart, for Dempsey was a great body puncher and would wear him down, and with Dempsey's great bobbing and weaving skills, I would find it hard for the Russian to catch him with any clean shots.

Now the ONLY heavyweight I would think who would really give Dempsey problems would be James Toney---only cus Toney can brawl and be skillful when needed---it would be a very close fight, and be much like the Jirov Toney bout---but Dempsey would be a helluva lot more faster than Jirov and a better defensive fighter.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 10 Feb 2006, 22:59

dempsey would be 210-215lb if he were fighting today

and dempsey would crush them all, by brutal KO including the vastly overated vitali

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 10 Feb 2006, 23:08

FINALLY! a guy who knows what the hell he is talking about

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 10 Feb 2006, 23:39

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:FINALLY! a guy who knows what the hell he is talking about

How long did it take you to find one, Rufus?

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 11 Feb 2006, 02:07

A prime Dempsey would destroy Toney like nobody's business, and I have a lot of respect for Toney's skills but a fast pressure fighter with knockout power in both hands with awesome stamina is Toney's nightmare, and Dempsey was that and a bag of Lays. Jirov gave Toney some problems with his body work? Dempsey would have Toney reeling from body shots and finish him off before the 6th round. Dempsey was 190 but had a true heavyweight bone structure and body strength. Toney does not, and his skills and stamina which win him HW fights in 2006 won't do him much good against the great smaller HWs of the past, who had the skills of Toney but were also true heavyweights.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 11 Feb 2006, 02:34

..when gene tunney extolled dempsey's virtues...saying he would have beaten joe louis and just about all other heavyweight.....he was aware, of course, that everyone knew he beat dempsey twice....and you never heard tunney say dempsey was past his prime by then....

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 13 Feb 2006, 13:09

Decagon wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:dempsey would be 210-215lb if he were fighting today
He might be fighting at 160, or even 147, for all we know. A lot of the heavyweights of the past might be fighting in the lower weight classes.

Thats right, there is no way he would be competing at heavyweight. Dempsey vs. todays heavyweights: he'd get thrashed by almost every single one. Dempsey did not have a large frame, so to think he would have packed on enough weight to match a bigger Holyfield who had a larger frame is ridiculous. If Dempsey added weight like Holyfield did and got to 210, he would lose most of his trademark speed that made him great in the first place.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Feb 2006, 13:23

evndrbsn wrote:
Decagon wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:dempsey would be 210-215lb if he were fighting today
He might be fighting at 160, or even 147, for all we know. A lot of the heavyweights of the past might be fighting in the lower weight classes.
Thats right, there is no way he would be competing at heavyweight. Dempsey vs. todays heavyweights: he'd get thrashed by almost every single one. Dempsey did not have a large frame, so to think he would have packed on enough weight to match a bigger Holyfield who had a larger frame is ridiculous. If Dempsey added weight like Holyfield did and got to 210, he would lose most of his trademark speed that made him great in the first place.

are u kidding me?

do u think vitali quitscko, wlad klitschko, chris bryd, john ruiz, jameel mccline, andrew golota, etc could even be competitive with jack dempsey? i dont

Dempsey did not have a large frame

i suggest taking a look at some pictures. he had a very large frame for a 185lb man with muscle dimensions of a much bigger man and a torso of a 210lb man!

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 13 Feb 2006, 14:39

evndrbsn wrote:
Decagon wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:dempsey would be 210-215lb if he were fighting today
He might be fighting at 160, or even 147, for all we know. A lot of the heavyweights of the past might be fighting in the lower weight classes.
Thats right, there is no way he would be competing at heavyweight. Dempsey vs. todays heavyweights: he'd get thrashed by almost every single one. Dempsey did not have a large frame, so to think he would have packed on enough weight to match a bigger Holyfield who had a larger frame is ridiculous. If Dempsey added weight like Holyfield did and got to 210, he would lose most of his trademark speed that made him great in the first place.

Decagon, there is NO WAY Dempsey could've made middleweight. He did have a very large frame but was TRIMMED down to 190 for max. speed and velocity. Look at Dempsey next to later champs like Ali and Baer . . .he's right in their range in terms of bone density.

He was BIGGER then Holyfield. Holyfield had to ARTIFICIALLY put on weight to get over 200. Dempsey walking around was probably 210ish but after camp was in the 190s.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 13 Feb 2006, 14:54

I think you need to look into Tunney's comments as Jaclam has. By saying Dempsey would beat Louis it obviously reflects well on him. And has Jaclam said he was past it when Tunney beat him.

But why are people mentioning Toney, Ruiz, Valuev etc when saying Dempsey would beat these. You are comparing a great HW in most people's top 10/top 15 to the worse HW era ever. Of course he would beat them. Go back a few years and do you think Dempsey would beat Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson or even a few of the decent HW who were 224+? I think that would be a better question and more debatable because I think he would walk through most of the guys today. He beat big guys who were better than todays HW. Then again I think nowadays he would be a great Cruiserweight, maybe light-HW but a cruiser he wouldn't have to drop so much weight.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 13 Feb 2006, 14:58

Dempsey would have knocked all of em out

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Feb 2006, 15:17

dempsey absolutley feasted on the bigger men, he was at his best vs the big men

6'7 245lb jess willard- TKO 3 biggest beating in boxing history

6'5 208lb fred fulton- KO 1 it took 18 seconds for dempsey to finish off the highly rated giant

6'4 226lb Carl Morris- KO 1 it took only 14 seconds this time

6'3 216lb Luis Firpo- KO 2 fipro down 9 times

6'2 210lb arthur pelkey KO 1

215lb andre anderson NW 10

225lb charlie miller KO 1

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 13 Feb 2006, 15:33

But would you put any of them, although big, into a top 20 HW list? I'm just using Lewis has an example of someone who is big but also better than most.