Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime George Foreman

[generic screen name]

I'd say Larry Holmes by decision,

I'm surprised this fight never happened, I heard Foreman never wanted a piece of holmes, old and young versions

[surf-bat]

I'd say Larry Holmes by decision,

I'm surprised this fight never happened, I heard Foreman never wanted a piece of holmes, old and young versions

Holmes would have beaten him badly. mid to late rounds tko. I think Foreman was the antithesis of Ken Norton. Give George a slugger and he shines. Give him a boxer and he's tied in knots. Norton shined with boxers and got killed by sluggers.

[generic screen name]

Thats why George probably never wanted a piece of Holmes....

[Ambling Alp]

Guess I'm going to have to disagree with you guys on this. Foreman didn't duck Holmes when he was in his prime. Holmes was a late bloomer and wasn't a top conternder until after Foreman retired in 1977. Most people had barely heard of Holmes at that point.
As far as Foreman ducking him when they were in their 40's; thats hard to say. It wouldn't have proved much regardless of who would won at that point.

Who would have won if they were both at their best? That would have been an interesting fight. I believe that if Foreman would have gotten Holmes in trouble, he would have stopped him. He wouldn't have let Holmes off the hook, like Shavers or Snipes for example. If Holmes fought the "perfect fight", I could see him winning a decision.

Much has been made that Foreman couldn't handle boxers. He did lose to Ali and Young, who were boxers. However, those were his only 2 losses in his prime. IMO, that isn't quite enough evidence to say that he couldn't handle boxers.

[Collins2000]

Guess I'm going to have to disagree with you guys on this. Foreman didn't duck Holmes when he was in his prime. Holmes was a late bloomer and wasn't a top conternder until after Foreman retired in 1977. Most people had barely heard of Holmes at that point.
As far as Foreman ducking him when they were in their 40's; thats hard to say. It wouldn't have proved much regardless of who would won at that point.

Who would have won if they were both at their best? That would have been an interesting fight. I believe that if Foreman would have gotten Holmes in trouble, he would have stopped him. He wouldn't have let Holmes off the hook, like Shavers or Snipes for example. If Holmes fought the "perfect fight", I could see him winning a decision.

Much has been made that Foreman couldn't handle boxers. He did lose to Ali and Young, who were boxers. However, those were his only 2 losses in his prime. IMO, that isn't quite enough evidence to say that he couldn't handle boxers.

I agree with The Alp. There was no chance of a Foreman - Holmes fight in Foreman's first pro career. Holmes just wasn't on the radar at that point.

I'd have been interested in seeing them fight after Holmes unretired and got over the Tyson shellacking. It would have got interesting if Foreman could have caught him like he caught Moorer.

[HomicideHenry]

Holmes, possibly was second to Ali, when it came to pure scientific skill. Holmes jab is arguably the best in the division ever.

Like a few people said, the fight never had a chance to happen cus Holmes was unknown and was still working as a sparring partner then, and dabbled in a few bouts---Foreman was already the champion and by 1977 was still the top contender, til he lost to Jimmy Young.

The way I see it, it would be a hard fight to predict. Even though Foreman was just a brawler and slugger back then, he knew how to cut off the ring and get to his man and threw his punches pretty quick for a man of his size (Foreman was huge for the era).

The only fight(s) Holmes had that would remotely remind me of what would happen if he did face Foreman, are the Shavers fights.

Shavers knocked down Holmes in both his fights, but was too slow and short. Now imagine Shavers being faster and taller....would Holmes be able to defend himself?

That is how I see Foreman, as a taller and faster version of Earnie Shavers----he would have been all over Holmes, and Holmes wouldn't of had the power to really keep off Foreman.

I think if Foreman couldn't have knocked out Holmes, cus as evidant in the Shavers fights, Holmes had the ability to get up off the floor to win a fight, Foreman would have edged Holmes in a decision---that is if the young Foreman wouldn't have gotten discouraged.

Now...if Foreman had the smarts he had in 1994 with his 1974 body...that would have been the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time.

Holmes lost to fast hard punching men. Lost to Tyson by KO in 4 rounds, you could argue Holmes was out of shape and over the hill---but he couldn't have been too bad, else he never would have challenged Holyfield and McCall in the 90's for the championships. He almost lost to Shavers twice---hadn't the "Acorn" been more faster---he would have been champion, he just couldn't follow up after the knock downs.

Hope anyone can see my point of view in this.

[Collins2000]

Holmes, possibly was second to Ali, when it came to pure scientific skill. Holmes jab is arguably the best in the division ever.

Like a few people said, the fight never had a chance to happen cus Holmes was unknown and was still working as a sparring partner then, and dabbled in a few bouts---Foreman was already the champion and by 1977 was still the top contender, til he lost to Jimmy Young.

The way I see it, it would be a hard fight to predict. Even though Foreman was just a brawler and slugger back then, he knew how to cut off the ring and get to his man and threw his punches pretty quick for a man of his size (Foreman was huge for the era).

The only fight(s) Holmes had that would remotely remind me of what would happen if he did face Foreman, are the Shavers fights.

Shavers knocked down Holmes in both his fights, but was too slow and short. Now imagine Shavers being faster and taller....would Holmes be able to defend himself?

That is how I see Foreman, as a taller and faster version of Earnie Shavers----he would have been all over Holmes, and Holmes wouldn't of had the power to really keep off Foreman.

I think if Foreman couldn't have knocked out Holmes, cus as evidant in the Shavers fights, Holmes had the ability to get up off the floor to win a fight, Foreman would have edged Holmes in a decision---that is if the young Foreman wouldn't have gotten discouraged.

Now...if Foreman had the smarts he had in 1994 with his 1974 body...that would have been the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time.

Holmes lost to fast hard punching men. Lost to Tyson by KO in 4 rounds, you could argue Holmes was out of shape and over the hill---but he couldn't have been too bad, else he never would have challenged Holyfield and McCall in the 90's for the championships. He almost lost to Shavers twice---hadn't the "Acorn" been more faster---he would have been champion, he just couldn't follow up after the knock downs.

Hope anyone can see my point of view in this.

Shavers knocked Holmes down in both fights?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

holmes TKO 12 foreman



holmes would survive the early onslaught and wear foreman down and outbox him and foremans poor stamina will kick in and holmes will finish off an exhausted foreman in late rounds. holmes jab and counterpunches are the key factors that well enable him to win the fight.



holmes will have to be very careful, cause a peak foreman was VERY GOOD at cutting off the ring. if holmes gets lazy and lowers his gaurd, or doesnt fight cautiously, foreman has a very good chance of taking holmes out.


holmes straight fast counter punches will give foreman nightmares because foreman tended to loop his punches and he would lower his gaurd wide open at times. foremans lack of stamina and lack of ring smarts will be deciding factors in this fight.


of course theres a good chance holmes could get caught like he did vs snipes, shavers, weaver and get taken outta there early. if foreman catches him, he will most likely finish him off

[walshb]

Look it took a monumentous effort from a close to peak Ali to beat George. I don't think Holmes could withstand George's shots and I do believe George would land cleaner to Holmes, than he did to Ali. Early KO for Foreman. Norton was blown away by Foreman, yet he gave Larry hell and landed a hell of a lot of shots, wobbling larry numerous times. If George land a 1/4 of the shots Ken did, it's bye bye Holmes and People forget that George at his peak had a great jab, was physically bigger, and was damn accurate.

Oh does anyone think the Foreman of 1987-94 would defeat the Holmes of 1987-1990...I think George definitely wins this one.

[Chuck1052]

Although still a formidable fighter, Muhammad Ali was past
his peak when he beat George Foreman. Notice that Ali
wasn't as fast during his first comeback.

I think that George Foreman was be the favorite over
Larry Holmes if both fighters were in their prime years,
but Holmes would have a very good chance of beating
Foreman because the latter had trouble with "cuties"
like Ali and Jimmy Young.

- Chuck Johnston

[walshb]

Good point Chuck, but I think Ai was very close to his peak as regards
experience, craftiness and general physical strength. He may have lost that blazing speed and some of his bounce, but it is very hard to determine Ali's peak. I think it's a mixture of 67-70 and 71-75. Put it this way, I think the Ali of 74 had the better chance to beat Foreman than the Ali of 67.....because the 74 version was that bit tougher and stronger, and against George, these qualities are essential.

As for Holmes, yes he definitely has a cance if he can avoid Foreman's heavy shots, but I do not think he could for long enough I see him being tagged cleaner than Ali was tagged and Hence he gets beat bad...

[Crease]

George Foreman would destroy Larry Holems, sheer POWER.

And Larry Holmes isn't exaclty the flight-footed rope-a-dope type is he.

[Ezzard]

Holmes could take a good shot and had bags of stamina and endurance. He could fight all night. He only got stopped as an old man in a fight he took at very short notice. Foreman has 6 rounds to win this one otherwise he's in deep water with a very hard mean champion.

[walshb]

I agree Ezzard. Holmes if he can weather the early rds has the advantage late on because he did have the stamina and staying power, but I just feel that George would get to him early. Norton couldn't avoid George and Ali barely barely survived the guy and that called in all Ali's strength, and experience. The key to the fight is Foreman stamping his authority and watching the guy power jab Norton was amazing. Foeman had a terrific powerful jab, almost on par with Larry's. His added weapon was that KO power from nearly any shot and I don't care how good a chin a guy has, he gets hit clean by George and he's gonna' fall. Foreman fights clever and relaxed he wins by early KO......

[Ezzard]

I agree Ezzard. Holmes if he can weather the early rds has the advantage late on because he did have the stamina and staying power, but I just feel that George would get to him early. Norton couldn't avoid George and Ali barely barely survived the guy and that called in all Ali's strength, and experience. The key to the fight is Foreman stamping his authority and watching the guy power jab Norton was amazing. Foeman had a terrific powerful jab, almost on par with Larry's. His added weapon was that KO power from nearly any shot and I don't care how good a chin a guy has, he gets hit clean by George and he's gonna' fall. Foreman fights clever and relaxed he wins by early KO......

Fair assessment... I lean towards Larry but this is a close one. i don't see any way back if Foreman does drop a fighter.

[surf-bat]

I agree Ezzard. Holmes if he can weather the early rds has the advantage late on because he did have the stamina and staying power, but I just feel that George would get to him early. Norton couldn't avoid George and Ali barely barely survived the guy and that called in all Ali's strength, and experience. The key to the fight is Foreman stamping his authority and watching the guy power jab Norton was amazing. Foeman had a terrific powerful jab, almost on par with Larry's. His added weapon was that KO power from nearly any shot and I don't care how good a chin a guy has, he gets hit clean by George and he's gonna' fall. Foreman fights clever and relaxed he wins by early KO......

Using the triangle approach is never a good way to assess a fight. What if we'd done that to Ali before the Foreman fight? Frazier beat Ali and Foreman KO'd Frazier in 2 rounds. So Foreman destroys Ali, right?

Or how about Duran going 15 rounds with Hagler. Hearns crushes him in two rounds. So Hagler will be lucky to make it out of the first round with Tommy, right?

You get my point I'm sure.

[generic screen name]

I agree Ezzard. Holmes if he can weather the early rds has the advantage late on because he did have the stamina and staying power, but I just feel that George would get to him early. Norton couldn't avoid George and Ali barely barely survived the guy and that called in all Ali's strength, and experience. The key to the fight is Foreman stamping his authority and watching the guy power jab Norton was amazing. Foeman had a terrific powerful jab, almost on par with Larry's. His added weapon was that KO power from nearly any shot and I don't care how good a chin a guy has, he gets hit clean by George and he's gonna' fall. Foreman fights clever and relaxed he wins by early KO......

Using the triangle approach is never a good way to assess a fight. What if we'd done that to Ali before the Foreman fight? Frazier beat Ali and Foreman KO'd Frazier in 2 rounds. So Foreman destroys Ali, right?

Or how about Duran going 15 rounds with Hagler. Hearns crushes him in two rounds. So Hagler will be lucky to make it out of the first round with Tommy, right?

You get my point I'm sure.

Exactly, You can do the same thing with Cooney. Cooney destroys Norton, and Norton gave Holmes a fight. But Holmes solidly TKO'd Cooney.

Holmes had good ring management, he predicted that Tyson's reign wouldn't be as long. Ali's jab gave Foreman Tons of trouble, plus he had good mobility, Holmes wouldn't be standing there like a sitting duck like Frazier.

Although I think Foreman would destroy a prime Tyson.

[Ezzard]

I agree Ezzard. Holmes if he can weather the early rds has the advantage late on because he did have the stamina and staying power, but I just feel that George would get to him early. Norton couldn't avoid George and Ali barely barely survived the guy and that called in all Ali's strength, and experience. The key to the fight is Foreman stamping his authority and watching the guy power jab Norton was amazing. Foeman had a terrific powerful jab, almost on par with Larry's. His added weapon was that KO power from nearly any shot and I don't care how good a chin a guy has, he gets hit clean by George and he's gonna' fall. Foreman fights clever and relaxed he wins by early KO......

Using the triangle approach is never a good way to assess a fight. What if we'd done that to Ali before the Foreman fight? Frazier beat Ali and Foreman KO'd Frazier in 2 rounds. So Foreman destroys Ali, right?

Or how about Duran going 15 rounds with Hagler. Hearns crushes him in two rounds. So Hagler will be lucky to make it out of the first round with Tommy, right?

You get my point I'm sure.

Exactly, You can do the same thing with Cooney. Cooney destroys Norton, and Norton gave Holmes a fight. But Holmes solidly TKO'd Cooney.

Holmes had good ring management, he predicted that Tyson's reign wouldn't be as long. Ali's jab gave Foreman Tons of trouble, plus he had good mobility, Holmes wouldn't be standing there like a sitting duck like Frazier.

Although I think Foreman would destroy a prime Tyson.

Thing is generic, in an odd way, to the people watching The Rumble at the time Ali was doing just that, standing like a sitting duck.

[thunderfromdownunder]

this is a good fantasy matchup, i think forman stops larry late in a very competive fight

[theone]

this is a good fantasy matchup, i think forman stops larry late in a very competive fight

Agreed. I dont believe Foremans stamina was as bad as most people think. The only time his stamina ever let him down was against Ali and Young. The amount of powerpunches he was throwing in those two fights and the oppresive heat he was doing it in, should be taken into consideration.
Holmes wasnt as "cute" as Young and often traded with his opponents. He didnt have Ali's battle savy, chin or most importantly Ali's iron midsection.
People always talk about ali's chin but in my mind no one in history took a better body shot than Ali.

[jedijojo]

this is a good fantasy matchup, i think forman stops larry late in a very competive fight

Agreed. I dont believe Foremans stamina was as bad as most people think. The only time his stamina ever let him down was against Ali and Young. The amount of powerpunches he was throwing in those two fights and the oppresive heat he was doing it in, should be taken into consideration.
Holmes wasnt as "cute" as Young and often traded with his opponents. He didnt have Ali's battle savy, chin or most importantly Ali's iron midsection.
People always talk about ali's chin but in my mind no one in history took a better body shot than Ali.

Agreed

[thunderfromdownunder]

this is a good fantasy matchup, i think forman stops larry late in a very competive fight

Agreed. I dont believe Foremans stamina was as bad as most people think. The only time his stamina ever let him down was against Ali and Young. The amount of powerpunches he was throwing in those two fights and the oppresive heat he was doing it in, should be taken into consideration.
Holmes wasnt as "cute" as Young and often traded with his opponents. He didnt have Ali's battle savy, chin or most importantly Ali's iron midsection.
People always talk about ali's chin but in my mind no one in history took a better body shot than Ali.

spot on,
i think Foreman wins this one, but would more than likley be behind on the scorecards, not by much though maybe a round or two.

i think Foremans boxing skill is underated by many people. like someone said before, he was good at cutting off the ring and his jab was good and strong (though not as good as larrys) add that to his devasating power and its a mean mix
i rate Forman at no3 (head to head) on my top 10 heavys list

[walshb]

I agree, if Foreman is conditioned he has the advantage and George's stamina is like the guys posted, underrated. In Zaire he went 8 rds throwing non stop power punches. Very few fighters could keep up that sort of pace. Holmes style is similar to Ali's, that's why I compared it. Frazier was tailor made for Foreman, Norton couldn't avoid him. Ali had the skill and Holmes too, but not as clever or tough as Ali.... Holmes does well but Foreman will land heavy and hence KO victory.

[pound per pound]

Great boxers like Ali and Young beat Foreman. Holmes was a great boxer. He also had a very good chin.

I think he box Foreman early, then take over in the mid to late rounds. Holmes via 12th round TKO.

[silkov]

Holmes by late stoppage... he had all the tools to beat Foreman in his prime...