WBC are crazay!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 Jun 2006, 20:45

They rate Guinn at No 11 for beating Audley yet kept Danny at 25 when he was the one who exposed Audley!

When Audley was rated 14 Danny should of got that rating.

Least the IBF stick to what they do at the moment.

http://www.wbcboxing.com/WBCboxing/Port ... sortby=ASC

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 03 Jun 2006, 14:58

I went on a long ramble here, but looked at it and thought it was guff, so I'll just say - I reckon Guinn should be rated ahead of Danny at the moment, but granted not by much.

Looking further down though, catching my eyes was JD Chapman at #22 (3 ahead of Danny? For beating erm...) And Dimitrenko at #31. Now Chapman does not have a look-in on Dimitrenko opponent quality-wise, and by all accounts his performances against Edward Gutierrez were pretty nondescript.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 03 Jun 2006, 18:56

jomothepure wrote:I went on a long ramble here, but looked at it and thought it was guff, so I'll just say - I reckon Guinn should be rated ahead of Danny at the moment, but granted not by much.

Looking further down though, catching my eyes was JD Chapman at #22 (3 ahead of Danny? For beating erm...) And Dimitrenko at #31. Now Chapman does not have a look-in on Dimitrenko opponent quality-wise, and by all accounts his performances against Edward Gutierrez were pretty nondescript.

Guinn only got rated for beating Audley who was barely rated 26 when Danny exposed him , so why do you think he should be that high? Danny was the one who beat Audley, when Audley was 14 on the WBC. So Danny should have that rating not Guinn.

It's bias.

Danny would whoop Guinn, he's unconfident too but just a little less than Audley.

Why the hell do people Ibragomiv, Briggs and Orkhello deserve to be rated past Danny though? It's the same with the WBA and IBF. They rate Virchis too in the other 3 when he's done fornicate all and should of got the loss to Sprott.

And Mesi too whos been off for nearly 2 years and basically fought a journymen comeback stay busy fight.

Whos Donell Homes too?

Chagaev's biggest win is off that shite Virchis Ray Austin's only beat Beck who Valuev easily KO'ed.

I think the shite they rate proves Danny has a chance man if they rate guys who Stacy Goodson puts on his club fights.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 04 Jun 2006, 04:28

That's a fair point. If Guinn was miles behind Audley before he fought Harrison, then the current rankings are pretty stupid.

And I agree, guys like you mention - you do wonder why they're so high, but you think about them again and you actually struggle to think who could be higher, that's how bad it is

Ibragimov - he is only 19-0. Good power, some decent skills, but really Lawrence, Ahunanya, and Whittaker are the only 'names' I could give to him as beating. I'd have Brock higher, although out of 28 fights only the McCLine and Smith wins stand out to me, although that's obviously better than Ibragimov's imo. And a win against Timor is certainly a step forward.

In rating Briggs so high (all four sanc bodies do) they are obviously sponging on the name and history rather than focussing on the stylish demolishion of such fearsome opposition as Luciano Zolyone. Nevertheless, I wouldn't begrudge him another title shot. He'd contribute towards a far more entertaining fight than many others would, and will always have the famous "punchers chance."

In reality, it's scant little to do with who you beat and how these days. It's all about forming a marketable record, personality, fanbase etc. which need not necessarily BE good, just look good, in order to attract a promoter's attention.

And we can't get worked up over ratings anyway, as they are basically just one way out of many to get a title shot. Kevin McBride will tell you that.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 04 Jun 2006, 05:54

They're not crazy, just corrupt.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 05 Jun 2006, 04:27

jomothepure wrote:That's a fair point. If Guinn was miles behind Audley before he fought Harrison, then the current rankings are pretty stupid.

And I agree, guys like you mention - you do wonder why they're so high, but you think about them again and you actually struggle to think who could be higher, that's how bad it is

Ibragimov - he is only 19-0. Good power, some decent skills, but really Lawrence, Ahunanya, and Whittaker are the only 'names' I could give to him as beating. I'd have Brock higher, although out of 28 fights only the McCLine and Smith wins stand out to me, although that's obviously better than Ibragimov's imo. And a win against Timor is certainly a step forward.

In rating Briggs so high (all four sanc bodies do) they are obviously sponging on the name and history rather than focussing on the stylish demolishion of such fearsome opposition as Luciano Zolyone. Nevertheless, I wouldn't begrudge him another title shot. He'd contribute towards a far more entertaining fight than many others would, and will always have the famous "punchers chance."

In reality, it's scant little to do with who you beat and how these days. It's all about forming a marketable record, personality, fanbase etc. which need not necessarily BE good, just look good, in order to attract a promoter's attention.

And we can't get worked up over ratings anyway, as they are basically just one way out of many to get a title shot. Kevin McBride will tell you that.

Guinn wasn't rated on the WBC at all before that fight.

It strengthens my opinion that Danny could do something in this division anyway.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 05 Jun 2006, 12:32

If Guinn was unrated before the Guinn fight, then you're totally right, the WBC are crazy. Limalion is equally totally right.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 05 Jun 2006, 12:45

Guinn lost a one sided decision to James Toney, and lost two decisions to a current titleist, and a long time contender...

Danny Williams lost a close decision to Michael Sprott, was knocked out by Sinan Sam, and took what was one of the most one sided beatings in HW title history against Klitschko...

That being said... Both of them have fought pretty decent opposition... And while Danny Williams has taken some lickings... He has showed heart in those losses... And Guinn has shown a huge lack of desire in his.

I would say that Guinn is a bit more talented, but is often too gun shy to use his talents(Which is odd, considering he has a great chin)...

I mean, in the grand scheme of things, neither of these guys is going to make a big impact in the division, and I would probably rate them both somewhere inbetween 20-25.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jun 2006, 13:54

I think Guinn should be rated above Danny, but not by much.

Lets not forget, Danny won a SPLIT decision vs Harrison- Guinn won a comfortable UD.

Although had the Williams vs Harrison fight been stateside I suspect Williams would have won via a clear UD also.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 05 Jun 2006, 18:28

stujones wrote:I think Guinn should be rated above Danny, but not by much.

Lets not forget, Danny won a SPLIT decision vs Harrison- Guinn won a comfortable UD.

Although had the Williams vs Harrison fight been stateside I suspect Williams would have won via a clear UD also.

Danny won a clear UD 116 - 112 on one card showed it. He wasn't that troubled just out of shape to do much. Plus he scored a knockdown which Guinn didn't do.

Audley was mostly just pawing with his right and holding.

Tantum he TKO'ed Sprott twice before that and that decision was contriversial.

Guinn wasn't rated at all until that win which shows their biased as Danny should of got the rating for beating him first when they rated Fraudly at 14.

Wouldn't mind Warren getting Guinn for Danny then after he beats Skelton again.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jun 2006, 19:22

Max Molyneux wrote:
stujones wrote:I think Guinn should be rated above Danny, but not by much.

Lets not forget, Danny won a SPLIT decision vs Harrison- Guinn won a comfortable UD.

Although had the Williams vs Harrison fight been stateside I suspect Williams would have won via a clear UD also.
Danny won a clear UD 116 - 112 on one card showed it. He wasn't that troubled just out of shape to do much. Plus he scored a knockdown which Guinn didn't do.

Audley was mostly just pawing with his right and holding.

Tantum he TKO'ed Sprott twice before that and that decision was contriversial.

Guinn wasn't rated at all until that win which shows their biased as Danny should of got the rating for beating him first when they rated Fraudly at 14.

Wouldn't mind Warren getting Guinn for Danny then after he beats Skelton again.

As I said, stateside I think Danny would have won a clear decision... no doubt. Reading people who bought the US PPV (yes, it was a PPV there) nobody saw it close (and neither did I).

However, officially at least, Guinn did a better job of Audley than Danny did.

I personally would rank Danny above Guinn - but looking at it from a stats point of view can see the logic with having Guinn above.

Despite his poor run, Guinn's overall record is still arguably better than Danny's and I would tip him to beat Danny (who lets face it is always going to be about 2 stones overweight now)....

Guinn lost but only by a close decision to Serguei Lyakhovich, who has geniune claims to be the #1 in the devision, he also held Monte Barrett to a split decision - Monte gave a decent account vs Hasim Rahman. He's beaten Michael Grant and Duncan Dokiwari two ranked fighters (at the time).

His 3 defeats have all come against top ten fighters, and two of them were close decisions. I think showing, that while he'll never be the superstar that many tipped him to be, he is fringe (or maybe fringe fringe) world class.

When Danny stepped up to world class, he got blitzed.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:26

Only because he stepped up to world class too soon instead of taking on a non title holder. Vitali was just too good for him and more experianced but he's gone now.

Guinn struggled with a guy(that Friday guy) who Povetkin's just beat too though in his 7th fight and was lucky Audley is a coward to fight though.

Sergei wouldn't be top 10 if it wasn't for the limited skilled Brewster though. Barrett got back up when he beat Beck but Beck ain't special and Toney's lucky he's in a weaker division. Except for Toney, I guess the other two are fringe world class too maybe.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:33

too soon? Danny Williams was an experienced fighter by that time, it's not like he was a 10 fight novice. The reason he didn't take on a non-belt holder is they knew he would probably have gotten knocked the fuckries out and end of title run. They cashed in Danny's chips, and I think after that, it would have been a good time to call it a day. Danny will lose to any of the current title holders, Valuev included, he just isn't world class mentally, and physically is in poor condition these days, no matter how fit he is, all that extra weigh makes him ponderous and lethargic.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:40

True, there was much talk of Williams fighting Maskaev before the Klitschko fight was made, I really dont think Williams would have had much success against Maskaev then or even now. Maskaev would have knocked him out.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:48

jamesmcdonnell wrote:too soon? Danny Williams was an experienced fighter by that time, it's not like he was a 10 fight novice. The reason he didn't take on a non-belt holder is they knew he would probably have gotten knocked the smeg out and end of title run. They cashed in Danny's chips, and I think after that, it would have been a good time to call it a day. Danny will lose to any of the current title holders, Valuev included, he just isn't world class mentally, and physically is in poor condition these days, no matter how fit he is, all that extra weigh makes him ponderous and lethargic.

I meant it was too early to get him in for a title shot. He should of kept the Maskaev fight.

Maskaev would never KO him clean if Vitali couldn't.

I'll just wait and see about the weight issue because he seems to have gotten lighter than he has been for 2 years in his last fight.

How do we know yet he hasn't changed or changed mentally?

I'd give him a chance against Valuev or Sergei. It's easy to outbox Brewster who couldn't even beat Meehan and he was off for over a year. Valuev stepped up to world level and got gift decisions against his best two.

Maskaev would have knocked him out.

Vitali didn't even knock him clean out so Maskaev would need a TKO and he's only being highly regarded as something again for beating a limited SSS and because of the eastern Euro trend in the HW division at the moment.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Jun 2006, 13:24

Max Molyneux wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:too soon? Danny Williams was an experienced fighter by that time, it's not like he was a 10 fight novice. The reason he didn't take on a non-belt holder is they knew he would probably have gotten knocked the smeg out and end of title run. They cashed in Danny's chips, and I think after that, it would have been a good time to call it a day. Danny will lose to any of the current title holders, Valuev included, he just isn't world class mentally, and physically is in poor condition these days, no matter how fit he is, all that extra weigh makes him ponderous and lethargic.
I meant it was too early to get him in for a title shot. He should of kept the Maskaev fight.

Maskaev would never KO him clean if Vitali couldn't.

I'll just wait and see about the weight issue because he seems to have gotten lighter than he has been for 2 years in his last fight.

How do we know yet he hasn't changed or changed mentally?

I'd give him a chance against Valuev or Sergei. It's easy to outbox Brewster who couldn't even beat Meehan and he was off for over a year. Valuev stepped up to world level and got gift decisions against his best two.

Maskaev would have knocked him out.
Vitali didn't even knock him clean out so Maskaev would need a TKO and he's only being highly regarded as something again for beating a limited SSS and because of the eastern Euro trend in the HW division at the moment.

Sorry I meant Maskaev would have stopped him then or now. KO or TKO who knows but I dont think Williams would go 12 rounds with Maskaev.

The same "limited SSS" he beat knocked the crap out of Williams in 6 rounds. So I dont see how that helps your viewpoint!

Maskaev also knocked Rahman clean out of the ring by the way.

Your views are blinkered where Williams is concerned obviously.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 06 Jun 2006, 13:34

The same "limited SSS" he beat knocked the crap out of Williams in 6 rounds. So I dont see how that helps your viewpoint!

Maskaev also knocked Rahman clean out of the ring by the way.

Your views are blinkered where Williams is concerned obviously.

Rahman was winning on the cards until Maskaev KO'ed him so unless he lands another one like that, I doubt he'll beat Rahman.

My views are just fine thank you.

SSS beat Williams no doubt about it, suprising like. He could always get a rematch and beat him

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Jun 2006, 13:49

Max Molyneux wrote:
The same "limited SSS" he beat knocked the crap out of Williams in 6 rounds. So I dont see how that helps your viewpoint!

Maskaev also knocked Rahman clean out of the ring by the way.

Your views are blinkered where Williams is concerned obviously.
Rahman was winning on the cards until Maskaev KO'ed him so unless he lands another one like that, I doubt he'll beat Rahman.

My views are just fine thank you.

SSS beat Williams no doubt about it, suprising like. He could always get a rematch and beat him

I really dont think Williams would beat SSS in a rematch, and the majority of people here would agree. The first fight was not even competitive.

Whether he'd beat Rahman again is not the point, you seemed to be saying he has only really beaten SSS and I was pointing out he has already KO'd one of the current world champions. Maskaev's record is light years better than Williams'. How many top 10 fighters has Williams beaten? None.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Jun 2006, 03:58

nickd wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
The same "limited SSS" he beat knocked the crap out of Williams in 6 rounds. So I dont see how that helps your viewpoint!

Maskaev also knocked Rahman clean out of the ring by the way.

Your views are blinkered where Williams is concerned obviously.
Rahman was winning on the cards until Maskaev KO'ed him so unless he lands another one like that, I doubt he'll beat Rahman.

My views are just fine thank you.

SSS beat Williams no doubt about it, suprising like. He could always get a rematch and beat him
I really dont think Williams would beat SSS in a rematch, and the majority of people here would agree. The first fight was not even competitive.

Whether he'd beat Rahman again is not the point, you seemed to be saying he has only really beaten SSS and I was pointing out he has already KO'd one of the current world champions. Maskaev's record is light years better than Williams'. How many top 10 fighters has Williams beaten? None.

No top 10 fighters yet but whos that good in this division really outside of the belt holders? Rahman will beat Maskaev as long as he doesn't get clocked again.

Beating certain opp doesn't seem to matter these days though in some cases.

Maskaev's best opponent for 4 years is SSS, the best he fought other than Rahman KO'ed him quick. A lot of these euros are fighting simular opp too so I'll wait and see what Danny does after he gets past SKelton. He can certainly win against Vidoz.