The La-La Land of Roy Jones

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Jun 2006, 05:52

Recent quote....

I'm still the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, when I'm motivated, and I'm motivated now because a lot of people don't think that I am the best," boasted Roy Jones Jr., via telephone at today's press conference in Boise, Idaho. Jones, who has lost three straight fights, forced a twenty-four hour delay for the press conference to officially announce his July 29 fight with Prince Badi Ajamu, claiming "logistical problems." Jones, however, apparently has no logistical problems in getting to Melbourne, Florida, tonight, where he will play in a minor league basketball game on Saturday. The 37-year-old former four-division champion, who has a long history of blowing off press events, plans to play most the season for the Brevard Blue Ducks.

I've a feeling this guy is going to spark him, Roy is so done. Roy wasn't motivated despite Tarver knocking him cold in fight 2, or when he fought Johnson for a world title? Bullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllshit!

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 03 Jun 2006, 05:55

He knows it, but he has to keep telling himself that.

I don't see a problem woth twhat he says personally, it's just hype.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 03 Jun 2006, 05:59

got to fill your boots on this one. this is the betting opportunity of the year.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Jun 2006, 06:05

Southpaw Stylist wrote:He knows it, but he has to keep telling himself that.

I don't see a problem woth twhat he says personally, it's just hype.

I think Roy has somehow managed to convince himself that what he says is true, I don't think it's just hype. Roy doesn't give a shit about hyping fights, he's never exactly been Mr press conference. He's trying to convince himself that he still has it. At 37 and vast sums of money he is fighting only for pride.

Wonder what the odds on this will be, worth a punt on Jones getting whacked out again.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 03 Jun 2006, 06:08

deep down Jones knows it. his confidence is shot. he turned down a WBA cruiserweight title shot against 'regular champion' Virgil Hill, who he'd beaten aeons ago in 4 rds. Hill fights some nobody on the same card

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Jun 2006, 07:13

Fighters with Ego's and ability of Jones have GOT to think that otherwise they'll be retired....

Sugar Ray Leonard AFTER the Camacho fight said that he believed he could beat Roy Jones (this was when he declared he would fight on).... Muhammad Ali still thought he could be Larry Holmes "with right preperation" after the Holmes fight.

I was actually a little encouraged by the third Tarver fight... he showed good heart and I think went in there to build confidence as opposed to win... I think he succeed there.. I was prepared to say "lets see this fight before completely righting him off" - but then I read the line "37 year old former champion" - too old for his style of fighting.

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 03 Jun 2006, 07:18

i wudnt mind a go on prince ajamu at 3-1 on bet365 but i never seen him fight - and he doesnt seem to be much of a puncher. Also his last loss was to an old otis grant. Anyone seen him fight?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 03 Jun 2006, 08:47

Jones is totally shot and has lost his punch resistance... he's probably at the stage where any decent punch will ko him now...

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 03 Jun 2006, 09:11

jamesmcdonnell wrote:He's trying to convince himself that he still has it. At 37 and vast sums of money he is fighting only for pride.

That's what I meant kinda.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 03 Jun 2006, 09:18

Watch Roy throughout his career, and you'll see, when he had to, he had his hands up.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Jun 2006, 09:31

Terence wrote:There is a huge difference between standing on the ropes with your hands up, not parrying to get you foe off-balance then bouncing off the ropes with shots and standing on the ropes with your hands up, not having the skill to parry and then getting KO'd by Johnson. Chins don't age, reflexes do, Jones got Ko'd due to huge holes in his technique that his reflexes could no longer cover.

Chins DO age aswell, ask Steve Robinson.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Jun 2006, 11:52

Terence wrote:No they don't, ask Oliver McCall. Ask George Foreman Or for your purposes Ray Mercer

When Roy's reflexes faded we all found out why he was always so desperate to avoid being hit.

Depends on the fighter... age effects different fighters in different ways... sometimes they shuffle more with their legs and haven't the footwork (Mercer, Tyson).

Oliver McCall is probably the freshest late 30's early 40's (not sure of his exact age) fighters I have ever seen.... He hasn't deteriorated alot in any department, just never that great.

For other fighters age effects their punch resistance... Steve Robinson, Crawford Ashley are just two fighters off the top of my head whoose punch resistance "went" with age. Why was it that the Sky experts were questionning if Howard Eastman's punch resistance is on the wain after the Miranda fight.... cause it does occur pretty frequently.

I'm tired off the "I always knew Roy Jones was chinny" debate.... Its been done so many times, all I say is watch many "prime" Jones fights again - if he doesn't get tagged then yes you have a valid point, but in many of his fights - Griffin 1, Ruiz, Clinton Woods, Bernard Hopkins, Julio Gonzales (just to name a few) he takes some full blooded shots, and takes them well.

Yes he was a defensive wary fighter and not always a fans favourite, but he wasn't chinny.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 03 Jun 2006, 12:56

Terence wrote:No they don't, ask Oliver McCall. Ask George Foreman Or for your purposes Ray Mercer

When Roy's reflexes faded we all found out why he was always so desperate to avoid being hit.

Very well put.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 03 Jun 2006, 19:34

Terence wrote:No they don't, ask Oliver McCall. Ask George Foreman Or for your purposes Ray Mercer

When Roy's reflexes faded we all found out why he was always so desperate to avoid being hit.

Whats your point? i think he was desperate to avoid being hit because it isnt pleasant getting punched in the face not because he thought he was chinny but then i suppose hindsight is 20/20

.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 05 Jun 2006, 06:58

I'd go along with that. I think Roy himself always knew he didn't take a shot too well, or didn't like being hit, of course nobody in their right mind LIKES being hit, but most boxers consider it an occupational hazard.

Roy's timing and reflexes were so good that he was virtually never tagged with a clean flush shot, he was always riding away from the shot when it came.

Once that timing went, he was suddenly a sitting duck. He did HAVE the fundamentals there, (we saw that illustrated against Ruiz), but he couldn't execute a successful style based on fundamentals, as fighting with an orthodox guard, he was too tentative, and unable to let his hands go, which we saw beautifully illustrated in the Johnson fight, where Roy couldn't find any openings.

This opponent may not be a puncher, but you'd figure it would make sense to go for the KO even so. Peversely, the one thing Roy probably has left is punch power. Roy's power was always pretty impressive, and it may be all he really has left.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Jun 2006, 07:02

apparently jones was ko'd in the amateurs, so i reckon getting hit was something he vehemently tried to avoid. much more than most fighters. i remember the malinga fight, sometimes he wouldn't throw a punch for two minute stretches. it was almost absurd, seeing this massive middleweight being so tentative. (even though he destroyed malinga eventually, something no one else has done, to his credit)

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 05 Jun 2006, 08:14

SRL once commented that when RJJ went to the Olympics everyone knew he didn't "catch too well"

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 05 Jun 2006, 08:24

I too suspect that Jones never had a tough chin, but it didn't become an issue as he was virtually always 1 step ahead of his opponent at all times largely thanks to an unparalleled conditioning level.

Now that he can't take his body to that level he is no longer protected by it. I wish he'd hang them up, I don't enjoy seeing Jones fail against mortal fighters like Tarver.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:09

Terence wrote:
Depends on the fighter... age effects different fighters in different ways... sometimes they shuffle more with their legs and haven't the footwork (Mercer, Tyson).
Stu, so why bring up Robinson as a one-off example when you know this?

Oliver McCall is probably the freshest late 30's early 40's (not sure of his exact age) fighters I have ever seen.... He hasn't deteriorated alot in any department, just never that great.
So are you trying to say that Jones deteriorated after all his give and take wars over the years? I must have missed them

Whats your point? i think he was desperate to avoid being hit because it isnt pleasant getting punched in the face not because he thought he was chinny but then i suppose hindsight is 20/20
My point is that Jones spent his career skating around the ring protecting a less than stellar chin. As for Stu asking about all the clean shots Jones took in his tough fights the fact is that many of those "clean" shots were ridden by Jones, I'm a big fan and the fact is that he was phenomenally hard to hit but when he finally did get nailed truly cleanly he went down like a cheap whore.

Nothing to do with hindsight either. Jones complained a few times in his corner when a guy hit him in the face, if Audley Harrison did this he'd get lynched. Jones was a fighter with great physical gifts who also neglected the fundamentals and has no basis for a sound defence now his legs have gone. Greatness is found in longevity not just flashy flurries. As for the question of hindsight, I forget that Jones was universally loved and lauded in his prime. Aside from the Roycott and the constant questioning of why he was so desperate to hide his chin.

Roy was a great fighter due to his physical gifts, his chin did not age his reflexes did and they revealed that his punch resistance is less than great.

Terence.

I brought up Robinson cause you said "Chin don't deteriorate" with age, but as Robinson showed IN SOME CASES they do. Robinson looked great at the start vs Harrison - busting him up to the body, but everytime he got caught clean he would wobble.

No Jones didn't have wars - but he was at an age when I could just "go" at anytime.

If Enzo Maccrinelli smashes Nelson, would he be labelled in the same way your labelling Jones - "Chinny, but never got caught" - or will it be "chin aged with time".

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:11

Is it just a coincidence that Jones form fell so dramatically after he was found to have used certain suppliments that go beyond the usual vitamin C variety.... how many boxers have lost their 'speed' so suddenly and abruptly??...hhhhmmm!

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:31

Good point silkov how much of Jones was real and how much was chemically assisted?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:33

Nelson's been tagged a few times and taken it pretty well.

Terrence's point is generally a good one, more often than not it's not that a fighter's ability to take a shot suddently dissapears, it's either not being able to get out of the way, not being able to ride the shot, or in some cases that there is not the same tolerance for pain, or willingness to fight through it.

I think for instance this was the case with Morales against Pacman, mentally, he just couldn't cope, and subconciously he was looking for a way out. After all it's not like he was sparked by Pacman, he just wilted under the onslaught.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:48

Hamed was an exceptional puncher... The fact that Robinson took a pounding for 8 rounds was testimant to his chin. Call me bias, but no way would Harrison have KO'd that version of Robinson... He might have beaten him, but not KO'd him.

Robinson was never floored, I don't think ever hurt, before the Hamed fight. That includes Paul Hodgkinson who stopped all but one of wins (only Marcos Villasana lasted the route).

Even after the Hamed fight, he never got hurt untill the Ramirez fight... even after that he suffered points defeats. The Harrison and Conway fights showed his chin was "gone" - but to say his chin might not have been up to the task cause of a KO defeat by Hamed is a little bit extreme.

I think we will agree to disagree with Jones, I think he was caught clean in his prime just his chin went with age and abusing his body (be that drugs, diuretics or if it was more innocent - but the move back down from Heavyweight has cost him).

Lou De Valle floored him, Julio Gonzales caught him clean on a number of occasions, as did Woods, Griffin, Hopkins, Tarver (fight 1 remember - Jones stood up never really buckled), and Ruiz (photos are there to show that).

Also he took a bit of a beating by Johnson for 8 rounds without buckling.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:54

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Nelson's been tagged a few times and taken it pretty well.

Can you tell me when he was hit by a solid shot and took it well? Only times I can remember him being "tagged" was vs Sellars (when he was floored) and Cantatore - not the time he suffered the KD vs Vincenzo but after when he buckled.

Its not a go, just a question... I cannot think of any other times in his title reign - Marcelo Dominguez maybe, but he is not a huge puncher and Nelson didn't like taken those.. He was losing untill Dominguez gassed.

Neither Jones nor Nelson caught each other clean during their super bore.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 Jun 2006, 11:01

Andy Mac wrote:Good point silkov how much of Jones was real and how much was chemically assisted?

Indeed, and Jones sudden loss of speed is very peculiar in that normally fighters lose their speed ralatively slowly through a series of fights, with Jones it was seemingly all at once, as if his super powers had suddenly been taken away!!???...