Robert Cleroux

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 18 Jun 2006, 17:40

George Chuvalo lost 2 out of 3 to Cleroux when they fought for the Canadian heavyweight title back in 60 & 61. Chuvalo is often credited with being the Canadian champion since 1958, which he was not. When Cleroux beat Chuvalo in their rubber in 1961, I am at a loss to figure out how he lost the championship back to Chuvalo. Cleroux lost a fight to Zora Folley in 64, & retired for 4 years. He was still good enough to beat Cleve Williams during that comeback. I don't know why Cleroux retired after losing to Folley. Folley beat Chuvalo in 64 as well.
Cleroux never got his proper dues, while George is a legend here in Canada.
Anybody know the rest of the story?

barry · Post by **barry** » 19 Jun 2006, 03:07

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w ... krause.htm

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 19 Jun 2006, 08:57

Thanks, Barry

That was a great article. It seems Cleroux was at the very least Chuvalo's equal, but chose to retire after losing to Folley. I wonder why he chose to retire at that point. He might very well have gone on to some big money fights as Chuvalo did, had he persevered. Chuvalo was unable to beat Folley either.
How did Chuvalo win back the Canadian title? He never fought Cleroux again. I see Cleroux defended the title once after his 3rd fight with Chuvalo, but never again.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 20 Jun 2006, 20:26

Decagon wrote:Cleroux retired, and Chuvalo fought Jean-Claude Roy for the vacant title. Cleroux made his comeback a month later.

... I see Cleroux beat Roy just a short while after Chuvalo did. That was in 1968. Cleroux beat somebody named Cecil Gray before he retired the first time. The Canadian title must not have been contested from Cleroux's defence against Gray until Chuvalo beat Roy. That's 4 years. Chuvalo probably would have beaten Cleroux in 1968. I wonder why the title was uncontested for so long? I guess they had to find someone for George to beat.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 21 Jun 2006, 12:33

Cleroux's first decision over Chuvalo in Montreal was split and extremely controversial. Most out-of-town observers had Chuvalo winning fairly easily. The second fight was so one-sided even the Montreal judges had to award it to Chuvalo.

Cap

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 21 Jun 2006, 17:50

Is their a source that can identify a chronological order of Canadian
heavyweight champs: An illustrious list it won't be, but it would be a nice
reference.

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 21 Jun 2006, 19:34

bill.lockhart wrote:Is their a source that can identify a chronological order of Canadian
heavyweight champs: An illustrious list it won't be, but it would be a nice
reference.

Perform a BoxRec "Title" search -- by country (Canada).
http://www.boxrec.com/title_search.php

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Jun 2006, 19:46

this bit of history has always fascinated me, Cleroux has fit into some of my conversations as proof that Zora is underated. I'm very happy to remind people of this fighters remarkable competence. Forgive me but I have always pronounced this guys name "Clorox"....since I don't think I've heard it spoken correctly by anyone. I assume in reality the x is silent.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 21 Jun 2006, 20:23

BoxBuzz wrote:this bit of history has always fascinated me, Cleroux has fit into some of my conversations as proof that Zora is underated. I'm very happy to remind people of this fighters remarkable competence. Forgive me but I have always pronounced this guys name "Clorox"....since I don't think I've heard it spoken correctly by anyone. I assume in reality the x is silent.

You assume correctly.
I am a huge Floyd Patterson fan & of the era he fought in.
Folley & Machen have always intrigued me too. Who was better in your opinion & what was it about them that was missing. I wonder if the Cleroux- Folley fights were close ones. Bob sure took the losses hard, retiring as he did. Folley handled Chuvalo easier than Patterson. Zora
could box with the best of them, as could Machen but neither was able to add that next gear when needed.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Jun 2006, 22:12

Well you may well know that I have not been kind to Patterson as a result of his handing my childhood hero Archie Moore a bit of a loss if I recall. I also think of him as the "accidental" champion. Now as far an example of the best of humanity Floyd is as good as it gets. But I've never been a fan of his boxing career and I know he was quite talented and I admit he was quite the over achiever.

I don't honestly know enough about Cleurox to really be able to give a lot of insight other than his record. I do think he should have been allowed to show his stuff more, and I'm sure that's because he represented a threat. I have often wondered just how different history would be if certain fighters were just given a shot. This is certainly an example of that, my favorite being Joe Jeanette.

Foley beat both of these guys and I think people sell Zora way short in the history books so the better Chuvalo and Cleurox look the better my point can be made. I would think that Foley would have beaten Machen in a rematch and I would also bet I'm in the minority here.

barry's opinion would be valuable on this as might be his nemesis Decagon (if they both agree you can probably take it to the bank). I would trust Jaclem and expug's thoughts on these fighters as well.
Brockton Blockbuster, Silkov are good sources as well....not sure I've ever heard them weigh in on this one.

I also think Chuvlal regained the Canadian Title from Jean Claude Roy well after those three fights. You'll need to check the record on that , just my memory on that.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 22 Jun 2006, 07:56

Decagon wrote:
Cap wrote:Cleroux's first decision over Chuvalo in Montreal was split and extremely controversial. Most out-of-town observers had Chuvalo winning fairly easily. The second fight was so one-sided even the Montreal judges had to award it to Chuvalo.

Cap
Would you be offended if I asked for a source?

No.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 22 Jun 2006, 08:01

I was living in Montreal during the period in question, and was quite familiar with the quality/perspective of Quebec judging. The Toronto Star had nice write-ups on both fights. I'd refer you to the Montreal Star, but when all the English left town, it folded.

Cap

P.S. Oh, and it's pronounced Klah-roo.