All Time Heavyweight Championship. QUARTER FINALS

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:27

In 1967, a Miami promoter, Murray Woroner wanted to simulate a tournament (by means of a supercomputer). This tournment would have the greatest boxers in history, fighting for the All-Time World Heavyweight Championship.

He reasoned that it would be a straight knock-out tournament and that it would contain 16 of the greatest boxers throughout time. Worner called upon the services of 2 boxing experts to assidt him,
Nat Fleischer (Editor of The Ring Magazine) +
Hank Kaplan (President of the World Boxing Historian's Organisation).

After a week's worth of discussions, they narrowed the field down to the last 16 great boxers.

The Supercomputer took 18 months to build and develop and it was fed with extensive video footage, records and information of the 16 boxers. Once it was developed it choose the First Round of Fights At Random...

NOW.

I'm going to ask you, my esteemed friends (BOXREC MEMBERS) to re-play the tournment and see who wins.

The rules are:

1. NO mocking other peoples opinions, (opinions can't be wrong).
2. You may only cast your prediction once, (there will be no changing minds).
3. You'll have 10 days to post your opinions.
4. The boxer with the most votes will progress.
5. When you post, you must post your opinions on EVERY FIGHT.
6. Fights consist of 15 ROUNDS, (3 minutes long).
7. The rounds are as follow: 1st Round, Quarter Finals, Semi Finals, 3rd Place Showdown, THE FINAL.

THE FIRST ROUND IS OVER, eight classic Heavyweights have been eliminated, but eight have survived and progressed into the last eight!!!

THE QUARTER FINALS ARE HERE!!!

Please post your views and good luck to all the Fighters!!!

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:40

I would like to thank the 13 BOXREC members for voting (please continue your votes as we boldly venture into the next round of match-ups).

NOTE: I have included the original results as 1 vote, as I feel they count for something...

THE FIRST ROUND RESULTS

1. Jack Dempsey v. Jim Corbett.
Dempsey (12 votes) - Corbett (01 vote).
RESULT: Dempsey wins by KO round 6.

2. John L. Sullivan v. Jim Braddock.
Sullivan (07 votes) - Braddock (06 votes).
RESULT: Sullivan wins on points decision.

3. Joe Louis v. Jess Willard.
Louis (13 votes) - Willard (No votes).
RESULT: Louis wins by KO round 5.

4. Bob Fitzsimmons v. Jack Sharkey.
Fitzsimmons (09 votes) - Sharkey (04 votes).
RESULT: Fitzsimmons win by KO round 13.

5. Rocky Marciano v. Gene Tunney.
Marciano (09 votes) - Tunney (04 votes).
RESULT: Marciano wins by KO round 15.

6. Max Baer v. Jack Johnson.
Baer (01 vote) - Johnson (12 votes).
RESULT: Johnson wins by KO round 10.

7. Jim Jeffries v. Jersey Joe Walcott.
Jeffries (05 votes) - Walcott (06 votes). (Also 1 draw posted.)
RESULT: Walcott wins on points decision.

8. Muhammad Ali v. Max Schmeling.
Ali (13 votes) - Schmeling (No votes).
RESULT: Ali wins by KO round 9.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:47

The Quarter Finals HAVE BEEN DRAWN!

Here they are:

1. Jack Dempsey vs. John L. Sullivan

2. Joe Louis vs. Bob Fitzsimmons

3. Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson

4. Jersey Joe Walcott vs. Muhammad Ali

dmt · Post by **dmt** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:51

Crease wrote:The Quarter Finals HAVE BEEN DRAWN!

Here they are:

1. Jack Dempsey vs. John L. Sullivan

2. Joe Louis vs. Bob Fitzsimmons

3. Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson

4. Jersey Joe Walcott vs. Muhammad Ali

just my opinion

Dempsey tko 10 Sullivan

Louis tko 7 Fitzimonns

Marciano UD Johnson

Ali ud Walcott

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 03 Jul 2006, 11:08

Crease wrote:The Quarter Finals HAVE BEEN DRAWN!

Here they are:

1. Jack Dempsey vs. John L. Sullivan

2. Joe Louis vs. Bob Fitzsimmons

3. Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson

4. Jersey Joe Walcott vs. Muhammad Ali

Demsey Sullivan: mututal knockout by round 3, both permanently braindamaged.
Louis Fitzsimmons: KO Louis in 10 secs
Marciano Johnson: Johnson TKO 25 (after Marciano has tired himself out)
Walcott Ali: 120:104, 120:106, 121: 105 Ali (obviously one judge got sokething wrong).

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:13

Marciano Johnson: Johnson TKO 25 (after Marciano has tired himself out)

huh??? marciano never tires himself out, he tires his opponents out.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:14

dempsey TKO 5 sullivan
louis KO 1 fitzimmons
johnson 15 unanimous marciano
ali TKO 14 walcott - fight even on the cards

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:21

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Marciano Johnson: Johnson TKO 25 (after Marciano has tired himself out)

huh??? marciano never tires himself out, he tires his opponents out.

Yep, but he never had to go 25 rounds.....

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 14:11

NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THESE ARE 15 ROUND FIGHTS...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 03 Jul 2006, 14:38

Crease wrote:NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THESE ARE 15 ROUND FIGHTS...

What if Marciano and Johnson agree to make it open-ended....?

In 15 Marciano probably wins.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 03 Jul 2006, 15:48

pundit wrote:
Crease wrote:NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THESE ARE 15 ROUND FIGHTS...
What if Marciano and Johnson agree to make it open-ended....?
In 15 Marciano probably wins.

that doesnt make sense, stick to the rules. 15 rounds

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 03 Jul 2006, 16:12

1. Jack Dempsey vs. John L. Sullivan Dempsey KO 6

2. Joe Louis vs. Bob Fitzsimmons Louis KO 3

3. Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson Johnson SD

4. Jersey Joe Walcott vs. Muhammad Ali Ali in a close and boring UD but these guys aren't getting serious they are both having fun and the audience catches on that they must be friends and have too much respect for one another and just putting on 15 rounds of sparring. Boos are heard and they both walk away unblemished and relatively fresh in what really was just a mock up fight in which they both made over 15 million each. They joke about doing it again but would the public be suckered in again?

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 03 Jul 2006, 17:18

1. Jack Dempsey vs. John L. Sullivan~~~Dempsey KO 5

2. Joe Louis vs. Bob Fitzsimmons~~~Louis KO 7

3. Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson~~~Johnson SD (suffered a KD but outboxed Marciano)

4. Jersey Joe Walcott vs. Muhammad Ali~~~Ali UD

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 03 Jul 2006, 21:34

Jack Dempsey KO 3 John L Sullivan
Joe Louis KO 3 Bob Fitzsimmons
Jack Johnson WUD 15 Rocky Marciano
Muhammad Ali KO 7 Joe Walcott

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 03 Jul 2006, 21:56

Dempsey TKO 7 Sullivan after getting dropped a few times
Louis KO 3 Fitzimmons
Johnson TKO 12 Marciano
Ali UD15 Walcott

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 04 Jul 2006, 00:59

All my picks are in the bold

Dempsey vs Sullivan

Louis vs Fitzsimmons

Marciano vs Johnson

Ali vs Walcott

*thinks to self, that this will end up being DEMPSEY vs LOUIS*

Ironically a Dempsey vs Louis article was written by Gene Tunney ages back, with Tunney predicting Dempsey blew out Louis in 2-3 rounds.

Myself the whole bullshit of everybody voting in favor of Johnson over Marciano is ludacris. Most of Johnson's challengers during his championship reign was men smaller than himself or were big lumbering goons. Besides, his greatest opponents were Langford, Ketchell, Burns and Fitzsimmons---not unless you count McVey and Jeanette---but myself I don't consider the men great fighters, because they all fought eachother over and over again---would be the same equivilant as having a Heavyweight today face 10 men over and over again and proclaim he was a worthy contender.

Sure Johnson was light years ahead of his time, but never did he really face a man of power or someone with the style of Marciano---you could say Jefferies as he had an 83% KO percentage and fought from a crouch, but the man was inactive for 6yrs and had to lose 100 pounds---hardly a contest. Walcott and Charles could have AND would have schooled Johnson.

As far as the smart assed comment that Marciano never went as many rounds as Johnson, Marciano had to train like those old time fighters, and could of had the endurance to go 20-30-45 round fights if he wanted to. With as many odds against him (short arms, crude style, swarming) he had to train like a bare-knuckle fighter to have the endurance to go all out for 15 rounds easy.

Look at most of his fights, he never slowed down, his speed and amount of punches thrown were just as much in the last round as they were in the early rounds---he never stopped punching. So I believe Marciano could have went as long as Johnson did.

Nuff said. lol

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Jul 2006, 04:32

Dempsey WTKO 8 Sullivan

Sullivan is busted up, hsi eyes are swollen and the ref steps in to save him from further punishment.

Louis KO 2 Fitzsimmons

Bob cannot live with Joe.

Johnson WMD 15 Marciano

Rock drops Jack late but it's not enough.

Ali WTKO 14 Walcott

I like BB's account of what happens. I might have Walcott ahead at the time of the stoppage. Walcott is bad news for Ali.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 04 Jul 2006, 06:22

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:All my picks are in the bold

Dempsey vs Sullivan

Louis vs Fitzsimmons

Marciano vs Johnson

Ali vs Walcott

*thinks to self, that this will end up being DEMPSEY vs LOUIS*

Ironically a Dempsey vs Louis article was written by Gene Tunney ages back, with Tunney predicting Dempsey blew out Louis in 2-3 rounds.

Myself the whole bullshit of everybody voting in favor of Johnson over Marciano is ludacris. Most of Johnson's challengers during his championship reign was men smaller than himself or were big lumbering goons. Besides, his greatest opponents were Langford, Ketchell, Burns and Fitzsimmons---not unless you count McVey and Jeanette---but myself I don't consider the men great fighters, because they all fought eachother over and over again---would be the same equivilant as having a Heavyweight today face 10 men over and over again and proclaim he was a worthy contender.

Sure Johnson was light years ahead of his time, but never did he really face a man of power or someone with the style of Marciano---you could say Jefferies as he had an 83% KO percentage and fought from a crouch, but the man was inactive for 6yrs and had to lose 100 pounds---hardly a contest. Walcott and Charles could have AND would have schooled Johnson.

As far as the smart assed comment that Marciano never went as many rounds as Johnson, Marciano had to train like those old time fighters, and could of had the endurance to go 20-30-45 round fights if he wanted to. With as many odds against him (short arms, crude style, swarming) he had to train like a bare-knuckle fighter to have the endurance to go all out for 15 rounds easy.

Look at most of his fights, he never slowed down, his speed and amount of punches thrown were just as much in the last round as they were in the early rounds---he never stopped punching. So I believe Marciano could have went as long as Johnson did.

Nuff said. lol

Interested to know how you rank Johnson as an all time HW?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Jul 2006, 06:36

Johnson was too good defensively on the inside for Rocky. Johnson would have to adjust his style to the pace of 15 rounders but I don't see that being a problem.

Marciano's best chance is simply to outwork Johnson over the duration. This is a possibility but Johnson was quicker, more skilled, more accurate, and had a better defence.

I think they go the distance and it wouldn't be a shutout but saying that calling Johnson over Rocky is BS or ludicrous make me think you're a bit too emotionally involved with Rocky.

As talented as Charles and Walcott were I have to say that there isn't a fighter in history who could have schooled Johnson.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 04 Jul 2006, 07:29

Ezzard wrote:Johnson was too good defensively on the inside for Rocky. Johnson would have to adjust his style to the pace of 15 rounders but I don't see that being a problem.

Marciano's best chance is simply to outwork Johnson over the duration. This is a possibility but Johnson was quicker, more skilled, more accurate, and had a better defence.

I think they go the distance and it wouldn't be a shutout but saying that calling Johnson over Rocky is BS or ludicrous make me think you're a bit too emotionally involved with Rocky.

As talented as Charles and Walcott were I have to say that there isn't a fighter in history who could have schooled Johnson.

On top of that, Johnson, like Ali, was able to fight going backwards. The one thing you are not supposed to do, go strait back. Johnson could fight in reverse as well as he could coming forward. This might give him the edge he needed to stay away from Marcianos wide thunderous shots. Johnson was one of the cagiest fighters in history.Countering and frustration would win Johnson the fight.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 04 Jul 2006, 13:08

For one...name ONE fighter who had the power of Marciano that Johnson fought? He never did---most the men he fought were either smaller than himself (Ketchell for instance), lacked skills or were big goons who HA HA! had no skills.

His greatest career win could possibly be his win over a faded, old worn out James J. Jefferies and a controversial decision over Sam Langford.

I only rank him as an all-time great because he beat the best the blacks could offer---which is debatable in my mind because it was virtually the same group of men facing eachother over and over---and the best the whites had to offer: diminuitive Tommy Burns, middleweight Ketchell, over the hill Jefferies, over-the-hill and ancient Bob Fitzsimmons.

Shall I go on? AND DO NOT...say he was out of condition against Willard, he beat Willard for 20 rounds easy---til "Giant" Jess and his body punches finally took affect and beat him in the 26th. Everybody wants to hold Johnson up as this mythical figure that he was superb and nobody could stop him and only lost because he "took a dive".

How conveinient an answer aye?

Even Jess Willard said, "If he took a fall, why didn't he do it sooner? It was hotter than hell down there!" (reference to the 110 degree heat in Cuba). And even Jack Blackburn, who faced Johnson and other great black men of the times---said himself that Johnson wasn't even as good as Joe Louis!

I rest my case...take a shit on Marciano all you want to, but look at the quality of Johnson's opponents ffs and really judge, he wasn't as great as Walcott or Charles.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 04 Jul 2006, 13:20

Ezzard wrote:Johnson was too good defensively on the inside for Rocky. Johnson would have to adjust his style to the pace of 15 rounders but I don't see that being a problem.

Marciano's best chance is simply to outwork Johnson over the duration. This is a possibility but Johnson was quicker, more skilled, more accurate, and had a better defence.

I think they go the distance and it wouldn't be a shutout but saying that calling Johnson over Rocky is BS or ludicrous make me think you're a bit too emotionally involved with Rocky.

As talented as Charles and Walcott were I have to say that there isn't a fighter in history who could have schooled Johnson.

i agree with ezzard, walcott really took it to the rock on the inside. johnson did not hit as hard as walcott, but he was a better counterpuncher and better inside fighter than walcott. rocky wouldnt be able to bull johnson around cause jack matched rocky in strength. johnson would counterpunch rocky to death in this fight and outskill rocky on the inside. johnsons uppercut will play a big role in this fight.

i will give rocky a punchers chance though, if rocky lands his overhand right, u can bet it will take far more effect on johnson than stanley ketchels which dropped and hurt johnson.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 04 Jul 2006, 18:48

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:
I rest my case...take a shit on Marciano all you want to, but look at the quality of Johnson's opponents ffs and really judge, he wasn't as great as Walcott or Charles.

Im not taking a shit on Marciano as he is one of my favorite fighters of all time. Is it unthinkable that Johnson, whom most have in their top 5 HWs could possibly out box Marciano? Like Brockton said, if Marciano could catch Johnson flush he could end it, but Johnson is one of the best defensive HWs that ever lived. Marciano threw shots just for the sake of throwing shots, Johnson could counter them and win on points in most peoples view. Once again, I will NEVER shit on Marciano, but I realize he doesnt beat Certian HWs like Johnson and Ali.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 04 Jul 2006, 19:49

sockdollanger, dont bother to respond to irish's rampage. obviousely ur not talking shit about marciano. irish just thinks everytime someone refutes marciano, that they are talking shit. HE EVEN CLAIMED I WAS TRYING TO DEGRADE MARCIANOS LEGACY HAHAH. irishmurphy hes incredibly bias. if u want to talk to a reasonable rocky fan, talk to me.

* irishmurphy rates rex layne as one of the 10 greatest heavyweight punchers ever

irish im not makin fun of u man, just try to ease off the name calling when people disagre with u. not everyone is out to get rock. some just dont rate him as highly as others.

its not like hes saying gerrie coetzee would beat rocky marciano. hes saying jack johnson, johnson is an ATG top 10 heavyweight of all time like marciano. by no means is this an out of the ordinary opinion

i myself am probably the biggest marciano fan here(you guys know that), but i still think jack johnson would beat rocky due to styles. you have every right to think johnson would beat rock.

johnson 15 unanimous marciano

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 04 Jul 2006, 20:07

Richard Stockton said in "Who Was the Greatest", "Marciano’s swarming style is made to destroy a boxer like Johnson."

interesting conradiction of opinions