Dean Francis - How Good Was/Is he?

fried bread · Post by **fried bread** » 13 Jul 2006, 05:49

IMO his injury was one of the great losses of British boxing.

This guy was really coming along brilliantly until the Undra White fight, where his shoulder went.

He broke down Seillier & Baker (who really, beat Woods). He beat Cornelius Carr far better that Steve Collins did. beat Starie far better than Calzaghe & Ottke could.

What I liked about him was his well balanced classical skills and power. Really composed. Sometimes looked like he'd run out of gas but between the Ballogou & White fights, but he'd always put his foot down and resume command.

IMO he would've won a world title at super middle.

Does anyone think he can make an impact at cruiser? Is the fght with Hobson going to happen? Did he get reinjured in his last fight?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Jul 2006, 05:54

Excellent fighter. I love his fight with Mark Baker. Woodhall, Catley, & Robin Reid all won titles & if they could, Francis could have.

Would've loved to see him vs Calzaghe. But I think Calzaghe was all wrong for him. So much stamina, handspeed & the lefty stance. But Francis was a cleaner, faster hitter than Reid, and Reid nearly outboxed Calzaghe so who knows?

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 13 Jul 2006, 06:40

viciousmaussa wrote: Would've loved to see him vs Calzaghe. But I think Calzaghe was all wrong for him. So much stamina, handspeed & the lefty stance. But Francis was a cleaner, faster hitter than Reid, and Reid nearly outboxed Calzaghe so who knows?

He boxed Calzaghe in the amatuers and got dealt with.

I know its a different game in the pros but you would have to assume there would be a repeat of their amateur meeting.

Real shame injuries hampered his career - I was a big fan and he seemed to have all the tools needed to compete at world level.

The time inside for a chip shop fight did him no favours either.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Jul 2006, 07:12

TerribleTerry wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote: Would've loved to see him vs Calzaghe. But I think Calzaghe was all wrong for him. So much stamina, handspeed & the lefty stance. But Francis was a cleaner, faster hitter than Reid, and Reid nearly outboxed Calzaghe so who knows?
He boxed Calzaghe in the amatuers and got dealt with.

I know its a different game in the pros but you would have to assume there would be a repeat of their amateur meeting.

Real shame injuries hampered his career - I was a big fan and he seemed to have all the tools needed to compete at world level.

The time inside for a chip shop fight did him no favours either.

oh, i thought it was an indian or a chinese takeaway

yeah, I think Calzaghe stopped him in two rounds as an amateur. starie also beat him as an amateur, but he really sorted starie out in the pros. memorable night.

shame about Francis. if he's still campaigning I'd love to see him fight Hobson. still, whatever happens, I don't think it's fair for him just to be seen as a 'might have been'. he did leave a legacy of sorts, he prioduced the classiest boxing i've seen in a british ring, in many many years. Pleasure to watch him work.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 13 Jul 2006, 14:41

viciousmaussa wrote: shame about Francis. if he's still campaigning I'd love to see him fight Hobson. still, whatever happens, I don't think it's fair for him just to be seen as a 'might have been'. he did leave a legacy of sorts, he prioduced the classiest boxing i've seen in a british ring, in many many years. Pleasure to watch him work.

Very true!

I saw him fight on tv for the first and only time where IMHO he received an unfair decision against Matthew Barney (who for all the criticisms of his style is a good quality boxer) using only one hand.

It was pretty clear to me this was a talented guy and I remember opening a thread about him on here a few years back asking for more info.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Jul 2006, 15:04

TerribleTerry wrote:
He boxed Calzaghe in the amatuers and got dealt with.

I know its a different game in the pros but you would have to assume there would be a repeat of their amateur meeting.

Real shame injuries hampered his career - I was a big fan and he seemed to have all the tools needed to compete at world level.

The time inside for a chip shop fight did him no favours either.

Does anyone know if his career is officially over. I know he will never be the same fighter again, but did he say enough is enough after his last fight.

As for the Calzaghe vs Francis amateur bout... I think a huge factor to consider was the age of the two - there is a two year gap and I think Joe was 20 and Francis 18. Thats pretty big in terms of development.

Plus, Francis style suited the pro ranks to a tea (not saying Calzaghe's doesn't obviously).

I think Francis had the potentially to be better than Reid, Woodhall, Cateley, Magee, Froch - and maybe even Collins and Calzaghe.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 14 Jul 2006, 06:44

stujones wrote:
TerribleTerry wrote:
He boxed Calzaghe in the amatuers and got dealt with.

I know its a different game in the pros but you would have to assume there would be a repeat of their amateur meeting.

Real shame injuries hampered his career - I was a big fan and he seemed to have all the tools needed to compete at world level.

The time inside for a chip shop fight did him no favours either.
Does anyone know if his career is officially over. I know he will never be the same fighter again, but did he say enough is enough after his last fight.

As for the Calzaghe vs Francis amateur bout... I think a huge factor to consider was the age of the two - there is a two year gap and I think Joe was 20 and Francis 18. Thats pretty big in terms of development.

Plus, Francis style suited the pro ranks to a tea (not saying Calzaghe's doesn't obviously).

I think Francis had the potentially to be better than Reid, Woodhall, Cateley, Magee, Froch - and maybe even Collins and Calzaghe.

would love to see him vs hobson

stylistically, he was superior to all of the top super middle brits. but he was nowhere near as sturdy as calzaghe, nor was he as fast. he had an excellent style though. hard to hit (as he showed v Starie) able to gut it out (as with Baker), accurate, powerful, composed. he was a real sharpshooter.

I stopped getting Boxing news. but they are always good for brief updates on Francis. I'm curious to know also.

British cruiserweights have always been on fire. I've always liked the domestic scene (Thompson, Eubank, Nelson, Dunston, Haye, Macca, Hobson). I think francis has the English title & was supposed to be in line for the British crown? Francis could be another good addition.

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 14 Jul 2006, 14:30

I was there when he beat Hunter Clay in Reading years ago - it was Francis' earlier days, and I was impressed with the way he broke Clay down with textbook boxing doing it in a workmanlike fashion. A patient and mature display.

Wasn't his dad England coach for a bit?

kevin · Post by **kevin** » 14 Jul 2006, 16:46

stujones wrote:
TerribleTerry wrote:
He boxed Calzaghe in the amatuers and got dealt with.

I know its a different game in the pros but you would have to assume there would be a repeat of their amateur meeting.

Real shame injuries hampered his career - I was a big fan and he seemed to have all the tools needed to compete at world level.

The time inside for a chip shop fight did him no favours either.
Does anyone know if his career is officially over. I know he will never be the same fighter again, but did he say enough is enough after his last fight.

As for the Calzaghe vs Francis amateur bout... I think a huge factor to consider was the age of the two - there is a two year gap and I think Joe was 20 and Francis 18. Thats pretty big in terms of development.

Plus, Francis style suited the pro ranks to a tea (not saying Calzaghe's doesn't obviously).

I think Francis had the potentially to be better than Reid, Woodhall, Cateley, Magee, Froch - and maybe even Collins and Calzaghe.

Last I heard he was waiting for a second opinion on his shoulder, I'll try and get hold him and find out

Lorn · Post by **Lorn** » 15 Jul 2006, 09:05

Young Francis was a very good fighter, who was improving all the time. I think he would have made it all the way. I remember Him sparring Eubanks at 19 and not coming second, I was very impressed with him and his attitude.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 15 Jul 2006, 12:40

AS others have already mentioned his fight with the tough Mark Baker was very entertaining. I hope he gets his shoulder sorted out.

punchers chance · Post by **punchers chance** » 15 Jul 2006, 17:01

agree with all the comments regarding his career.

If he fights on, I doubt he could come back to anything like the level of the pre 98 days.
5 fights in nearly 8 years. It's asking a hell of a lot.

A real loss to British Boxing.

Scrap · Post by **Scrap** » 15 Jul 2006, 17:35

Neverwin, you have it in one rotator cups are never the same once theyve been torn badly several times. Sad Francis could have been special

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:25

His shoulder went again during his last fight in Feb.
He's since had an operation, and is planning one last comeback attempt.

I don't know if he's back in training yet; probably not, shoulders take a lot of recovery time.
If he's going to, I'd expect to see him fighting before the year's out.

As said, despite not being as dazzling as Calzaghe, Dean was the most complete British SM since Eubank.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:44

Was Dean too big for S-middle?? he was certainly one I favoured over Calzaghe of the good young crop that was coming through at that time, but the more I think about tit the more I think was he too big for s-middle??

He hated body punches, and weakened fighters suffer more than others when hit there

But over all, a fit Francis is a worry to any S-middle we have produced

Jamie Sanigar · Post by **Jamie Sanigar** » 18 Jul 2006, 09:47

Dean Francis was exceptional. In my eyes he was the best boxer to ever to walk in the our Gym. His stoppage display against David Starie was special especially with Starie going on to box the distance with Calzaghe & Ottke. Dean sparred with the likes on Benn, Eubank, Otkke and they always spoke well of him, he more than held his own.

In my opinion Dean would have beaten the likes of Woods, Reid, Froch, Ottke, Beyer. Calzaghe would have been 50/50.

Unfortunatley he has been cursed with a terrible shoulder injury that I fear will end his career. He has never been the same fighter since the injury due to the fact he can't use that arm without the fear of the shoulder going again.

A very sad situation and a great loss for British Boxing.

Jamie Sanigar · Post by **Jamie Sanigar** » 18 Jul 2006, 09:58

In his sixth pro fight he stopped Darren Griffiths who had a record of 17-1-3 and had never been stopped up to that date and six years later went 10 rounds with Rob Norton!!! Dean stopped him in 1 round.

Even Amir Khan is not boxing opponents of that class yet.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 18 Jul 2006, 11:50

Jamie Sanigar wrote:Dean Francis was exceptional. In my eyes he was the best boxer to ever to walk in the our Gym. His stoppage display against David Starie was special especially with Starie going on to box the distance with Calzaghe & Ottke. Dean sparred with the likes on Benn, Eubank, Otkke and they always spoke well of him, he more than held his own.

In my opinion Dean would have beaten the likes of Woods, Reid, Froch, Ottke, Beyer. Calzaghe would have been 50/50.

Unfortunatley he has been cursed with a terrible shoulder injury that I fear will end his career. He has never been the same fighter since the injury due to the fact he can't use that arm without the fear of the shoulder going again.

A very sad situation and a great loss for British Boxing.

I was about to post about his performance against Starie then read this. That has to be his best night at the office he was punch perfect.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:16

nickd wrote:
Jamie Sanigar wrote:Dean Francis was exceptional. In my eyes he was the best boxer to ever to walk in the our Gym. His stoppage display against David Starie was special especially with Starie going on to box the distance with Calzaghe & Ottke. Dean sparred with the likes on Benn, Eubank, Otkke and they always spoke well of him, he more than held his own.

In my opinion Dean would have beaten the likes of Woods, Reid, Froch, Ottke, Beyer. Calzaghe would have been 50/50.

Unfortunatley he has been cursed with a terrible shoulder injury that I fear will end his career. He has never been the same fighter since the injury due to the fact he can't use that arm without the fear of the shoulder going again.

A very sad situation and a great loss for British Boxing.
I was about to post about his performance against Starie then read this. That has to be his best night at the office he was punch perfect.

Also was impressive vs Sellier.

Jamie Sanigar · Post by **Jamie Sanigar** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:22

and stopping Cornelius Carr in 7 rounds who had gone 12 rounds with Steve Collins just before.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:35

In fairness Francis was the favourite in both those fights going in, but against Starie it was seen as a pick 'em fight and he absolutely dominated form start to finish.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 18 Jul 2006, 18:54

Francis was an intimidating figure to face, and I got the impression Starie bottled it a bit

thats not to say he`d have done any better if he didn`t

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 19 Jul 2006, 02:52

His fight with Starie was his best showing. For a guy known as a banger, Francis was very poised and patient. And he showed he was hard to hit as well.

These were world class displays vs Starie, Seillier, Carr. Admittedly, there was a vulnerability about him, as when Kitt Munroe dropped him. And he was roughed up a bit by Baker, but what I liked was how he was able to pace himself and reassert himself when necessary.

What does Dean do now, when he's not fighting?

Scrap · Post by **Scrap** » 19 Jul 2006, 08:25

Funny thinking about bad shoulder injurts. tye only fighter I can remember coming back and winning a title after one off those was Colin Mc Millan. But He was half the fighter he was before. I couldnt think of anyone else. But there is, the man who never gets the credit He deserves not only was it bad he went on to regain the World title, Karl Thompson

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 19 Jul 2006, 08:42

Vitali Klitschko tore a rotator cuff, Francis dislocated his shoulder didn't he? Yes McMillan pretty much the same thing and was never the same.

Same sort of area but rotator cuffs can be repaired, Holyfield has torn one too in the past I think.