Carlos Monzon

Jmcti · Post by **Jmcti** » 15 Jul 2006, 03:03

What kind of fighter was Carlos? Is there any current boxer that compares to him (based on style)? I know he's one of the best middleweights of all time but I've never seen tapes of him fighting.

theone · Post by **theone** » 15 Jul 2006, 09:12

Currently Erik Morales reminds me the most stylistally to Monzon. However Monzon was alot more calm and poised when under pressure. Monzon was like an emotionless, steely eyed assasin in the ring and had the perfect combination of physicallity,style,skill and mind set for a middleweight.

I dont believe any middleweight in history would of won a fight series against him.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 15 Jul 2006, 09:15

Not even Marvin Hagler or Bernard Hopkins?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Jul 2006, 09:27

I agree, at middleweight he beats Hagler, Hopkins and Robinson in a head to head series. He had the mental game as perfect as I have ever witnessed it. He deconstructed every style of opposition. The naysayers have mentioned his lack of HOF's in his resume. I just happen to think many of them do deserve to be in the HOF but the HOF is often about notoriety and FAME rather than ability.

I think his opposition was much better than is often assessed. Pound for Pound he figures highly in the all time sweepstakes as well.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 15 Jul 2006, 09:31

Not saying that records make a fighter, but his career record was impressive. 87-3-9 (59 ko).

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 15 Jul 2006, 09:52

Monzon and Hagler were both very similar, if not in style ,in attitude in that they both had that extra something . Meanness.
Both were on a mission to destroy. Both really driven.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 15 Jul 2006, 10:01

I would love to see the first Monzon vs Briscoe fight.

Doubt I ever will. :(

theone · Post by **theone** » 15 Jul 2006, 10:15

Not even Marvin Hagler or Bernard Hopkins?

Not even them.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 15 Jul 2006, 14:08

A peak Dick Tiger would have given Monzon a real war although I would favour Manzon to edge out a points victory, just.

I would have been interesting to see how Monzon would have coped with Tigers bodyshots over 15 rounds. Assuming Tiger could get past Monzons jab often enough of course.

tboy100 · Post by **tboy100** » 15 Jul 2006, 14:14

Monzon had the overall game, compared to someone who shone in one department in particular e.g speed, power, movement. Stylewise not flashy, just got the job done time and time again! Undefeated over last 13 years ish and 80 fights. Made a lot of his fights look easier than they were! Monzon - Briscoe 2 is a bit of a tough one to watch mind. The real cameraman must have been in the crowd watching the fight. lol

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2006, 00:36

I remember reading a magazine article, and was a "fantasy" bout between Bernard Hopkins vs Carlos Monzon, because Hopkins had just recently beaten Monzon's division title defense record...and it made me about vomit, that they said Hopkins would beat Monzon.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Jul 2006, 01:40

Decagon wrote:An older Griffith gave Monzon troubles. Imagine what a slick middleweight in his prime would do, such as Conn, Burley, Cerdan or Hopkins would do.

wut troubles did monzon have with griffith in there first fight?????

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Jul 2006, 04:25

An older Griffith gave Monzon troubles. Imagine what a slick middleweight in his prime would do, such as Conn, Burley, Cerdan or Hopkins would do.

So what if Griffith was pesky? It wasnt as if Griffith was totally shot. Griffith at that time was experienced and ring savy enough to trouble most great middleweights in history. It wasnt as though he had Monzon looking foolish or had him wobbled in either fight.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 16 Jul 2006, 10:41

I noticed in Monzon's boxrec record he fought a draw with a guy by the name of Carlos Alberto Salinas who at the time had a fair amount of losses and went on a subsequent losing streak finishing his career with just barely a winning record. I'm not using this as a debating point as I did not see that fight and as I said was stricktly going by what boxrec had listed. Just wondered if someone had any more details on this fight.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 16 Jul 2006, 11:05

kick asner wrote:I noticed in Monzon's boxrec record he fought a draw with a guy by the name of Carlos Alberto Salinas who at the time had a fair amount of losses and went on a subsequent losing streak finishing his career with just barely a winning record. I'm not using this as a debating point as I did not see that fight and as I said was stricktly going by what boxrec had listed. Just wondered if someone had any more details on this fight.

Draws in Argentina were extremely common back then. On our cards Monzon might win a ten round fight 6-4, but because the Argentine judges didn't consider it decisive enough, they'd call it a draw.

And it's worth remembering that until the draw with Briscoe, Monzon wasn't really taking his boxing career too seriously. Once he found out he could hang with the tough Americans he really got down to business - and you know how his career went from there.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 16 Jul 2006, 11:12

Thanks

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Jul 2006, 11:34

An older Griffith gave Monzon troubles. Imagine what a slick middleweight in his prime would do, such as Conn, Burley, Cerdan or Hopkins would do.

It had been written, (though I can not quote the source at this time due to bad memory) that Monzon had great apprehension about fighting Griffith as he was a bit of a hero or at least Monzon had some type of great appreciation for Griffith's abilities and/or reputation. Though he seemed to be up to the task he did no bragging and even remained respectful of Griffith throughout his career. I hope this can be confirmed by someone else as I did not get that info from this forum. I believe he considered the fights with Griffith as some of his more challenging events. Those around Monzon would attribute it to Carlos' regard for his opponent

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Jul 2006, 11:16

BoxBuzz wrote:
An older Griffith gave Monzon troubles. Imagine what a slick middleweight in his prime would do, such as Conn, Burley, Cerdan or Hopkins would do.

It had been written, (though I can not quote the source at this time due to bad memory) that Monzon had great apprehension about fighting Griffith as he was a bit of a hero or at least Monzon had some type of great appreciation for Griffith's abilities and/or reputation. Though he seemed to be up to the task he did no bragging and even remained respectful of Griffith throughout his career. I hope this can be confirmed by someone else as I did not get that info from this forum. I believe he considered the fights with Griffith as some of his more challenging events. Those around Monzon would attribute it to Carlos' regard for his opponent

Thanks for that Buzz

Monzon also seemed to get more and more accurate with his punches as the fight went on. It was as if he could begin to predict his opponent's moves with unnerving accuracy. His right hand often looked slow and obvious but it was so accurate and it didn't seem to matter if the other guy was inside, outside or ringside, Carlos seemed to always get his man.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 25 Jul 2006, 04:43

I havent seen that much of Monzon, bit before my time. Why do people think he would be Hagler, who was the most intense fighter you could ever wish to see, was a great boxer, good power and hard as nails? Would Monzon beat a young Roy Jones with his exceptional speed and skills?

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 25 Jul 2006, 13:49

dr_devious wrote:I havent seen that much of Monzon, bit before my time. Why do people think he would be Hagler, who was the most intense fighter you could ever wish to see, was a great boxer, good power and hard as nails? Would Monzon beat a young Roy Jones with his exceptional speed and skills?

I believe he would. One of Monzon's best assets was his intelligence. I have heard people call him a one dimensional fighter, but he'd figure his opponents out and start breaking them down with precision punching. I do believe he's one of the few middleweights in history who would beat Hagler. As for the Roy Jones fight, in a 15 round fight, I believe he'd stop Jones. In a 12 round fight, it'd be a close decision in favor of Monzon. Watching him is like watching one of those few complete fighters, it's just amazing and takes boxing from being just boxing, to being almost an art.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 25 Jul 2012, 06:58

bump...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 Jul 2012, 13:12

I think I can add a relevant update to this. In my experience, those who have actually seen Monzon (in real time) in the ring, and Hagler in the ring, seem to express a much higher percentage of calling any hypothetical fight in Monzon's favor. I fall in that catagory.

I will second those who say that Monzon appeared to be the best example of steeled, unemotional focus in the ring of anyone they have witnessed. He was as machine like as any presence in the ring I've seen. The opposite of Ali in that all he seemed to be aware of during a fight was his opponent. No nods, winks, or acknowldgement of the world outside the reach of his boxing gloves. And a seemingly complete awareness of that tight circle of space, up to and including how things (such as an opponents jaw) would be positioned in time and space in the nanoseconds following the time he fired a shot, to the time that shot was to reach it's intended destination.

It's sort of spooky to me, partly because it did not appear to be delivered in the snappy style of a SRL, Pernell Whitaker or maybe even Roberto Duran. Yet it appeared to have equal if not superior results in terms of accuracy. His gift and what set him apart from his speedier peers, seemed to be his zen like patience. He seemed no more excited or elevated in any way about an early jab, than he did with a series of combinations leading to a late round K.O.

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 25 Jul 2012, 13:58

Really enjoyed all your posts here boxbuzz. I must confess i have seen very little of monzon but am going to one day start watching as many of his fights as I can.

AngryGoon38 · Post by **AngryGoon38** » 25 Jul 2012, 20:32

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:Not saying that records make a fighter, but his career record was impressive. 87-3-9 (59 ko).

Not to mention,Undefeated in his last 80 Bouts.

AngryGoon38 · Post by **AngryGoon38** » 25 Jul 2012, 20:37

theone wrote:
An older Griffith gave Monzon troubles. Imagine what a slick middleweight in his prime would do, such as Conn, Burley, Cerdan or Hopkins would do.
So what if Griffith was pesky? It wasnt as if Griffith was totally shot. Griffith at that time was experienced and ring savy enough to trouble most great middleweights in history. It wasnt as though he had Monzon looking foolish or had him wobbled in either fight.

Exactly. I'd also counter someone's criticisms of Monzon by Pointing out Hagler's draw with Vito the Mosquito. 8)

And also,to add what BoxBuzz was pointing out,Timing and counterpunching can overcome Speed in its various formats(punchspeed,footspeed,elusivness). A couple good Examples of this are Barrera-Hamed,and Watt-Davis.

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