round 1 of thunders MW tourney...

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 18 Jul 2006, 02:16

all 15 round fights, none of this 12 round crap

Sugar Ray Robinson V Carl Olsen
Marvin Hagler V Dick Tiger
Bernard Hopkins V Jake LaMotta
Les Darcy V Carlos Monzon

get your votes in...

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 18 Jul 2006, 09:49

Finally, something different for a change on the Heavyweights Of The Past Forum.

Sugar Ray Robinson KO 3 Bobo Olson. Easy pick.

Marvin Hagler TKO 14 Dick Tiger. Tiger was never stopped at MW, but then he never fought Hagler at MW.

Bernard Hopkins WUD 15 Jake La Motta. Hopkins wins 13 rounds and 2 are even.

Carlos Monzon WDQ 7 Les Darcy. Darcy can't hit Monzon with anything solid, and Monzon can't hurt Darcy. In the 7th Darcy runs out of options and get's DQ'd.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 18 Jul 2006, 09:52

Robinson
Hagler
La Motta
Monzon

JC · Post by JC » 18 Jul 2006, 12:28

Seamus wrote:Finally, something different for a change on the Heavyweights Of The Past Forum.

Sugar Ray Robinson KO 3 Bobo Olson. Easy pick.

Marvin Hagler TKO 14 Dick Tiger. Tiger was never stopped at MW, but then he never fought Hagler at MW.

Bernard Hopkins WUD 15 Jake La Motta. Hopkins wins 13 rounds and 2 are even.

Carlos Monzon WDQ 7 Les Darcy. Darcy can't hit Monzon with anything solid, and Monzon can't hurt Darcy. In the 7th Darcy runs out of options and get's DQ'd.

Seamus, those are good picks I agree with all except Hopkins vs Lamotta I'll take Lamotta by UD I think he would out work B-hop over the 15 rounds and I can't see Hopkin's shots discoraging him too much.

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:40

Robinson KO13 Olson
Hagler W15 Tiger
LaMotta W15 Hopkins
Monzon KO8 Darcy

Scartissue

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:43

Sugar Ray Robinson KO5 Carl Olsen
Marvin Hagler UD15 Dick Tiger
Jake LaMotta SD Bernard Hopkins
Carlos Monzon TKO7 Les Darcy

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 18 Jul 2006, 17:25

thanks for voting...
i'll keep round one open for another day

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jul 2006, 17:36

Sugar Ray Robinson KO7 Carl Olsen
Marvin Hagler UD15 Dick Tiger
Jake LaMotta SD15 Bernard Hopkins
Carlos Monzon TKO11 Les Darcy

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 18 Jul 2006, 17:55

Seamus wrote:
Marvin Hagler TKO 14 Dick Tiger. Tiger was never stopped at MW, but then he never fought Hagler at MW.

Dick Tiger KO 8 Marvin Hagler. Hagler was never stopped at MW, but then he never fought Tiger at MW.

But Hagler did fight (and struggle with) overweight, tired, old lightweight Roberto Duran at MW.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jul 2006, 18:40

Dick Tiger KO 8 Marvin Hagler. Hagler was never stopped at MW, but then he never fought Tiger at MW.

While Tiger was incredibly strong and a very busy fighter, he a wasnt particularly hard puncher. Tiger rarely stopped quality oppisition and Hagler had never come close to being stopped.
Its not out of the realm of possibility that Tiger could win a decision, but stopping Hagler may be.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 18 Jul 2006, 19:27

granberry wrote:
Seamus wrote:
Marvin Hagler TKO 14 Dick Tiger. Tiger was never stopped at MW, but then he never fought Hagler at MW.

Dick Tiger KO 8 Marvin Hagler. Hagler was never stopped at MW, but then he never fought Tiger at MW.

But Hagler did fight (and struggle with) overweight, tired, old lightweight Roberto Duran at MW.

What a shitty response.

1/ Hagler faced much harder punchers than Tiger. Hart, Mugabi and Hearns for three, not to mention Cabrera, Obelmejias, Briscoe and others. Say what you want about these guys as fighters, they could all really whack. To say Dick Tiger of all people would knock him clean out is idiotic. When did Tiger become such a big puncher, and when did Hagler start leaving his chin out there for the taking? Hagler was never floored in 114 amateur & professional contests.

2/ Pathetic attempt to try and bring Hagler down. That same Duran, who happened to be very focused and intent on taking Hagler's crown, would go on to beat Iran Barkley five years later. And it's not as though the fight was that close - the judges were too generous to Duran, Hagler was comfortably ahead.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 18 Jul 2006, 19:37

Hagler came along when boxing and middleweights were in a deteriorated stage.

He struggled with old, overweight lightweight Roberto Duran.

That is pathetic for a supposed 160 pound champion.

Dick Tiger won the lightheavyweight title.

Hagler wouldn't dare get in the ring with a 175 pounder.

He had enought trouble with lightweights and welterweights.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 18 Jul 2006, 19:49

I won't even bother to argue... I must have done it twenty times before, just ask anyone who posts at ESB. You are a typical hater, and that's hater talk. Totally unreasonable and misinformed.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 18 Jul 2006, 20:14

DoubleM wrote:I won't even bother to argue... I must have done it twenty times before, just ask anyone who posts at ESB. You are a typical hater, and that's hater talk. Totally unreasonable and misinformed.

What exactly do you mean by hater? Inexplicably he doesn't think Hagler was very good. I doubt that he has any personal animosity. Just a poor judge of ability.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 18 Jul 2006, 20:35

The Great John L wrote:
DoubleM wrote:I won't even bother to argue... I must have done it twenty times before, just ask anyone who posts at ESB. You are a typical hater, and that's hater talk. Totally unreasonable and misinformed.
What exactly do you mean by hater? Inexplicably he doesn't think Hagler was very good. I doubt that he has any personal animosity. Just a poor judge of ability.

Just the way he's trying to bring Hagler down, you can tell he has some sort of vendetta.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 18 Jul 2006, 21:39

granberry wrote:Hagler came along when boxing and middleweights were in a deteriorated stage.

He struggled with old, overweight lightweight Roberto Duran.

That is pathetic for a supposed 160 pound champion.

Dick Tiger won the lightheavyweight title.

Hagler wouldn't dare get in the ring with a 175 pounder.

He had enought trouble with lightweights and welterweights.

Its not uncommon for a fighter to start out at a particular weight when they are younger and move up as they age. Duran was 5'7" which is not that short for a person to weigh 160 lbs. He pretty much had the frame for it. I can think of very few people who have not gained at least some weight as they got older. The bottom line is Hagler and Duran were right at the same size for their fight. Look at someone like Archie Moore who started out as a middleweight and gave Marciano a tough fight. So you could make that same comparison with countless fighters. Dick Tiger himself lost to Emile Griffith who was a former welterweight.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Jul 2006, 21:47

thunderfromdownunder wrote:all 15 round fights, none of this 12 round crap

Sugar Ray Robinson V Carl Olsen
Marvin Hagler V Dick Tiger
Bernard Hopkins V Jake LaMotta
Les Darcy V Carlos Monzon

get your votes in...

I really miss Harry Greb here... You should have substituted Les Darcy for him, even if this would have hurt your Australian heart.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 18 Jul 2006, 22:03

i was thinking of adding greb and jones jr as well but i thought eight fighters would do...

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 18 Jul 2006, 22:08

DoubleM wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
DoubleM wrote:I won't even bother to argue... I must have done it twenty times before, just ask anyone who posts at ESB. You are a typical hater, and that's hater talk. Totally unreasonable and misinformed.
What exactly do you mean by hater? Inexplicably he doesn't think Hagler was very good. I doubt that he has any personal animosity. Just a poor judge of ability.
Just the way he's trying to bring Hagler down, you can tell he has some sort of vendetta.

A vendetta? I guess that would imply some personal animosity. I've been called a Liston hater simply becuase I don't think he's one of the 10 or even 15 best HWs ever. I have no hatred of him, I just think his lack of hand and foot speed is just too much of a liability. I don't hate him. I never met him.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 18 Jul 2006, 22:16

Sugar Ray Robinson V Carl Olsen UD
Marvin Hagler V Dick Tiger SD controversial decision
Bernard Hopkins V Jake LaMotta Majority Draw with Bernard getting one judges vote by one round.
Les Darcy V Carlos Monzon KO 9

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 18 Jul 2006, 23:32

The Great John L wrote:
DoubleM wrote:
The Great John L wrote: What exactly do you mean by hater? Inexplicably he doesn't think Hagler was very good. I doubt that he has any personal animosity. Just a poor judge of ability.
Just the way he's trying to bring Hagler down, you can tell he has some sort of vendetta.
A vendetta? I guess that would imply some personal animosity. I've been called a Liston hater simply becuase I don't think he's one of the 10 or even 15 best HWs ever. I have no hatred of him, I just think his lack of hand and foot speed is just too much of a liability. I don't hate him. I never met him.

Oprah Winfrey coined the word "hater" on her women's show.

That is a typical feminine "epithet" since she started using the term on her show.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Jul 2006, 04:42

The Great John L wrote:
DoubleM wrote:I won't even bother to argue... I must have done it twenty times before, just ask anyone who posts at ESB. You are a typical hater, and that's hater talk. Totally unreasonable and misinformed.
What exactly do you mean by hater? Inexplicably he doesn't think Hagler was very good. I doubt that he has any personal animosity. Just a poor judge of ability.

I agree, hater talk is a cr*p... The guy obviously is just trying to get a rise out of people or doesn't know what he's talking about.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Jul 2006, 04:47

kick asner wrote:
granberry wrote:Hagler came along when boxing and middleweights were in a deteriorated stage.

He struggled with old, overweight lightweight Roberto Duran.

That is pathetic for a supposed 160 pound champion.

Dick Tiger won the lightheavyweight title.

Hagler wouldn't dare get in the ring with a 175 pounder.

He had enought trouble with lightweights and welterweights.

Its not uncommon for a fighter to start out at a particular weight when they are younger and move up as they age. Duran was 5'7" which is not that short for a person to weigh 160 lbs. He pretty much had the frame for it. I can think of very few people who have not gained at least some weight as they got older. The bottom line is Hagler and Duran were right at the same size for their fight. Look at someone like Archie Moore who started out as a middleweight and gave Marciano a tough fight. So you could make that same comparison with countless fighters. Dick Tiger himself lost to Emile Griffith who was a former welterweight.

It doesn't matter how much weight someone puts on they will always be at a natural disadvantage. Yes guys do put on a few pounds as they get older but it's not the same as being natural at the weight. Remember that the guys doing it now have a lot of roids and nutritional info to go on.

Duran was never particularly chiseled again after Leonard I.

Duran did so well against Hagler because he worked his style out and boxed very very well. Years later he would do it again and get himself an alpha belt.

Hagler won. He didn't look devestating but he won.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 19 Jul 2006, 04:58

personally i don't think tiger beats hagler at all,let alone by stoppage but as soon as someone mentions this everyone is jumping on the guy calling him a hater,yet tiger who was strong and durable himself gets picked for a stoppage defeat that most likely aint happening either and the nuthugger brigade remain silent.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Jul 2006, 05:20

dalek wrote:personally i don't think tiger beats hagler at all,let alone by stoppage but as soon as someone mentions this everyone is jumping on the guy calling him a hater,yet tiger who was strong and durable himself gets picked for a stoppage defeat that most likely aint happening either and the nuthugger brigade remain silent.

I agree. I think it's a 15 round fight. Tiger was a better fighter than Antufermo. Tiger can win rounds of Hagler and I think it would be close.

round 1 of thunders MW tourney...

round 1 of thunders MW tourney...

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