In 1967, a Miami promoter, Murray Woroner wanted to simulate a tournament (by means of a supercomputer). This tournment would have the greatest boxers in history, fighting for the All-Time World Heavyweight Championship.
He reasoned that it would be a straight knock-out tournament and that it would contain 16 of the greatest boxers throughout time. Worner called upon the services of 2 boxing experts to assist him,
Nat Fleischer (Editor of The Ring Magazine) +
Hank Kaplan (President of the World Boxing Historian's Organisation).
After a week's worth of discussions, they narrowed the field down to the last 16 great boxers.
The Supercomputer took 18 months to build and develop and it was fed with extensive video footage, records and information of the 16 boxers. Once it was developed it choose the First Round of Fights At Random...
NOW.
I'm going to ask you, my esteemed friends (BOXREC MEMBERS) to re-play the tournment and see who wins.
The rules are:
1. NO mocking other peoples opinions, (opinions can't be wrong).
2. You may only cast your prediction once, (there will be no changing minds).
3. You'll have 10 days to post your opinions.
4. The boxer with the most votes will progress.
5. When you post, you must post your opinions on EVERY FIGHT.
6. Fights consist of 15 ROUNDS, (3 minutes long).
7. The rounds are as follow: 1st Round, Quarter Finals, Semi Finals, 3rd Place Showdown, THE FINAL.
THE SEMI FINALS ARE OVER, two fantastic Heavyweights have been eliminated, but the two vixtors have survived, thrived and have now qualified for the FINAL BATTLE!!!
THE FINAL IS FINALLY HERE!!!
Please post your views and good luck to all the Fighters!!!
Murray Worner's All-Time Championship. THE FINAL
Murray Worner's All-Time Championship. THE FINAL
Last edited by Crease on 04 Aug 2006, 05:38, edited 1 time in total.
NOTE: (Along with the final, I have invited the two losing semi finalists to compete for the respectable bronxe medal)...
I would like to thank the 11 BOXREC members for voting (please continue your votes as the final abttles approach).
HERE ARE THE RESULTS FOR THE SEMI FINALS:
1. Jack Dempsey vs. Joe Louis
Dempsey (0 votes) - Sullivan (10 votes) - 1 draw.
RESULT: Louis win by KO round 14.
2. Jack Johnson vs. Muhammad Ali
Johnson (0 votes) - Ali (10 votes)
RESULT: Ali wins on points decision.
NOTE: In this round, a BOXREC member (granberry) predicted a DOUBLE KNOCKOUT for the first bout. He/she clearly didn't specify an outright winner for the bout and didn't comply with the estbalished rules.
NOTE 2: The same BOXREC member predicted two possible outcomes for the second fight, without choosing one...
PLEASE specify a winner in the future.
THANKS AGAIN...
I would like to thank the 11 BOXREC members for voting (please continue your votes as the final abttles approach).
HERE ARE THE RESULTS FOR THE SEMI FINALS:
1. Jack Dempsey vs. Joe Louis
Dempsey (0 votes) - Sullivan (10 votes) - 1 draw.
RESULT: Louis win by KO round 14.
2. Jack Johnson vs. Muhammad Ali
Johnson (0 votes) - Ali (10 votes)
RESULT: Ali wins on points decision.
NOTE: In this round, a BOXREC member (granberry) predicted a DOUBLE KNOCKOUT for the first bout. He/she clearly didn't specify an outright winner for the bout and didn't comply with the estbalished rules.
NOTE 2: The same BOXREC member predicted two possible outcomes for the second fight, without choosing one...
PLEASE specify a winner in the future.
THANKS AGAIN...
Dempsey and Johnson are the two of the most overatted heavywieght greats when it comes to head to head fights. Sure, they're all-time greats in accomplishments, but were dominant fighters in the ring for thier time.
If Johnson fought Marciano or Frazier the way he fought his opponents, he would have ended up slumped in a corner craddling his bruised and fractured ribs by the 6th round.
If Dempsey had been in the ring with Lennox Lewis or Foreman the night he fought Firpo he would have ended up in the back row of the arena, and no amount of help would have gotten him back in the ring on time.
If Johnson fought Marciano or Frazier the way he fought his opponents, he would have ended up slumped in a corner craddling his bruised and fractured ribs by the 6th round.
If Dempsey had been in the ring with Lennox Lewis or Foreman the night he fought Firpo he would have ended up in the back row of the arena, and no amount of help would have gotten him back in the ring on time.
I predict:
1. Jack Dempsey VS Jack Johnson
After a gruelling and blood-spitting brawl, Dempsey wins by KO round 14.
2. Joe Louis VS Muhammad Ali
I know that this is the fight that every BOXREC member has a different opinion on.... BUT I think that Joe Louis wins by a very late KO, probably round 13.
(If Frazier can KO Ali, I'm sure Louis could)...I mean any lapse of concntration from Muhammad would cost him. AND his overconfidence would get the better of him.
(PS. I know that these 2 particular fights have been done about a 101 times BUT please do it just 1 more time for me, as this is the gand finale of my re-make of Murray Worner's tournament)...
1. Jack Dempsey VS Jack Johnson
After a gruelling and blood-spitting brawl, Dempsey wins by KO round 14.
2. Joe Louis VS Muhammad Ali
I know that this is the fight that every BOXREC member has a different opinion on.... BUT I think that Joe Louis wins by a very late KO, probably round 13.
(If Frazier can KO Ali, I'm sure Louis could)...I mean any lapse of concntration from Muhammad would cost him. AND his overconfidence would get the better of him.
(PS. I know that these 2 particular fights have been done about a 101 times BUT please do it just 1 more time for me, as this is the gand finale of my re-make of Murray Worner's tournament)...
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pundit
- Heavyweight
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pundit
- Heavyweight
Re: Murray Worner's All-Time Championship. THE FINAL
But they can be based on flawed reasoning or incomplete information -- and as a consequence be grossly implausible -- can't they?Crease wrote:Opinions can't be wrong.
At least I like your rules better than Irish's. If you would apply his rules, your final would probably Marciano vs. Marciano...
(hope this doesn't qualify as "mocking")
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scartissue
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1893
- Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00
I like Johnson and Ali... But, Dempsey and Louis have great chances.
If Dempsey manages to do some real damage with his early blitz then maybe he can win the fight. Similarly Louis has the tools to really put the hurt on Ali.
I post on these match ups a lot and Louis is going to win some off Ali in a series so I'll go with him this time.
Louis WMD 15 Ali
Dempsey WSD15 Johnson
If Dempsey manages to do some real damage with his early blitz then maybe he can win the fight. Similarly Louis has the tools to really put the hurt on Ali.
I post on these match ups a lot and Louis is going to win some off Ali in a series so I'll go with him this time.
Louis WMD 15 Ali
Dempsey WSD15 Johnson
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Jack Dempsey, as much as I love the man, as there have been few since him with the bobbing and weaving style who was as ferocious and with as much speed as him, but the man was more suited to face men of much larger porportions. "Super-Heavyweights" were Dempsey's forte, getting inside the reach of much taller men and tearing them to pieces---and there's not many to question his punching prowess, as he probably would have beaten any other puncher/slugger/brawler/swarmer of his time.
But as far as movers is concerned, real tacticians, he was always befuddled by them, but he never quit charging at them. He failed to beat Gibbons in his prime by stoppage---it went the distance. Though he was past his best arguably against Tunney, he couldn't do much with Gene either, except get lucky and knock him down once. Now Johson I rank with Charles, Walcott and Ali as the best tactician/movers at HW. Johnson virtually out-danced every man he ever faced.
Johnson I would pick over Dempsey, winning a close 15 round decision, with Dempsey pressing the action the entire duration, with Johnson dancing away and measuring Dempsey with his jab and scoring many crosses and jabs, as well as mixing in lightning fast combinations. It wouldn't be an easy fight for Johnson, but in the end I see Johnson winning.
As far as Louis vs Ali is concerned...Louis always had a hard time with movers. Take for example how hard it was for Louis when he faced Conn, who was a great tactician and mover, until Conn got cocky and thought he could kayo Louis and Joe showed him why he was the HW champion of the world---now I see Ali as being a much larger, faster and harder hitting version of Billy Conn, who could take a solid HW punch.
I know Louis had lightning fast hand speed and from the waist up possibly nobody was better at boxing---and it is true, Louis did box better than Ali in virtually every way, except that Ali's speed was so huge it made up the vast difference. I see Ali winning by KO (yes kayo, I'll explain why) in 11 rounds.
I say by KO because if you watch the Louis-Conn fight, the diminuitive Conn wobbled Louis quite a few times. Walcott knocked down Louis a few times, and Walcott was known more for his ring science than punching prowess (though Walcott had a 60% kayo average)---Charles hurt Louis, Louis had problems with Tommy Farr who was light hitting, Louis was knocked down by Braddock, who like Walcott was known more for his style than power, and Louis was even in trouble against Schmeling, who was a tactician, though Schmeling did hit hard and Schmeling KO'd Louis in 12 rounds.
Louis is considered in his prime in 1938, and not too far a step back to his prime when he faced Schmeling the first time---and Louis was in prime years before he went into the Army---so it is my opinion a tactician with Ali's speed would tear Louis down and eventually knock him out.
But as far as movers is concerned, real tacticians, he was always befuddled by them, but he never quit charging at them. He failed to beat Gibbons in his prime by stoppage---it went the distance. Though he was past his best arguably against Tunney, he couldn't do much with Gene either, except get lucky and knock him down once. Now Johson I rank with Charles, Walcott and Ali as the best tactician/movers at HW. Johnson virtually out-danced every man he ever faced.
Johnson I would pick over Dempsey, winning a close 15 round decision, with Dempsey pressing the action the entire duration, with Johnson dancing away and measuring Dempsey with his jab and scoring many crosses and jabs, as well as mixing in lightning fast combinations. It wouldn't be an easy fight for Johnson, but in the end I see Johnson winning.
As far as Louis vs Ali is concerned...Louis always had a hard time with movers. Take for example how hard it was for Louis when he faced Conn, who was a great tactician and mover, until Conn got cocky and thought he could kayo Louis and Joe showed him why he was the HW champion of the world---now I see Ali as being a much larger, faster and harder hitting version of Billy Conn, who could take a solid HW punch.
I know Louis had lightning fast hand speed and from the waist up possibly nobody was better at boxing---and it is true, Louis did box better than Ali in virtually every way, except that Ali's speed was so huge it made up the vast difference. I see Ali winning by KO (yes kayo, I'll explain why) in 11 rounds.
I say by KO because if you watch the Louis-Conn fight, the diminuitive Conn wobbled Louis quite a few times. Walcott knocked down Louis a few times, and Walcott was known more for his ring science than punching prowess (though Walcott had a 60% kayo average)---Charles hurt Louis, Louis had problems with Tommy Farr who was light hitting, Louis was knocked down by Braddock, who like Walcott was known more for his style than power, and Louis was even in trouble against Schmeling, who was a tactician, though Schmeling did hit hard and Schmeling KO'd Louis in 12 rounds.
Louis is considered in his prime in 1938, and not too far a step back to his prime when he faced Schmeling the first time---and Louis was in prime years before he went into the Army---so it is my opinion a tactician with Ali's speed would tear Louis down and eventually knock him out.
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31