Let's suppose that his career is finished, and we can look at his entire career and truly judge Roy Jones, Jr. on his accomplishments in the ring and see where he ranks over all as a fighter.
-Won titles in four different weight classes: MW, SMW, LHW and HW.
-Greatest wins: Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Mike McCallum and John Ruiz. Ironically enough all four victories were at different weight classes and all four were in his debut at the weight.
-Four career losses: Montell Griffin [robbery, but avenged]. The others were late in his career, against Antonio Tarver [once by KO] and Glenn Johnson [also by KO], never avenged.
-Robbed of an Olympic Gold Medal in 1988 but was named the 'Games Most Outstanding Boxer'.
-Defenses: 5 at SMW, 1 at MW, 11 at LHW [3x's champion at the weight].
-Lack of competitive matches at LHW hurt his legacy*
-His unwillingness to take a risk also hurts his legacy*
-The only two instances in his career that he really took a gamble were the Tarver fights and the lone fight at HW against John Ruiz.
-Amazing hand and foot speed
-Power in both hands in the lighter weight classes
*He never fought Graciano Rocchigiani, Micheal Nunn, Buster Douglas or Dariusz Michaczewski [WBO LHW champion]. Nor did he really make a lasting impression on the HW ranks, though rumors of having bouts with a faded Evander Holyfield [another example of not willing to take a risk] was in the works, only to go back to LHW.
Based on all that, let's just say Jones could have had the chance to have defended his LHW title against the likes of Billy Conn, Archie Moore, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles and Michael Spinks...would he? Or would he have just ducked them, like he did with everyone who could actually fight back?
Another thing to wrap your mind around, where does he rank on the ATG LHW or even in a Pound-Per-Pound sense? Sure he 'cleaned' the LHW division, but he wasn't exactly facing opponents of great stature either.
Roy Jones, Jr.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Re: Roy Jones, Jr.
Ridiculous statementIrishRufusMurphy wrote:Let's suppose that his career is finished, and we can look at his entire career and truly judge Roy Jones, Jr. on his accomplishments in the ring and see where he ranks over all as a fighter.
-Won titles in four different weight classes: MW, SMW, LHW and HW.
-Greatest wins: Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Mike McCallum and John Ruiz. Ironically enough all four victories were at different weight classes and all four were in his debut at the weight.
-Four career losses: Montell Griffin [robbery, but avenged]. The others were late in his career, against Antonio Tarver [once by KO] and Glenn Johnson [also by KO], never avenged.
-Robbed of an Olympic Gold Medal in 1988 but was named the 'Games Most Outstanding Boxer'.
-Defenses: 5 at SMW, 1 at MW, 11 at LHW [3x's champion at the weight].
-Lack of competitive matches at LHW hurt his legacy*
-His unwillingness to take a risk also hurts his legacy*
-The only two instances in his career that he really took a gamble were the Tarver fights and the lone fight at HW against John Ruiz.
-Amazing hand and foot speed
-Power in both hands in the lighter weight classes
*He never fought Graciano Rocchigiani, Micheal Nunn, Buster Douglas or Dariusz Michaczewski [WBO LHW champion]. Nor did he really make a lasting impression on the HW ranks, though rumors of having bouts with a faded Evander Holyfield [another example of not willing to take a risk] was in the works, only to go back to LHW.
Based on all that, let's just say Jones could have had the chance to have defended his LHW title against the likes of Billy Conn, Archie Moore, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles and Michael Spinks...would he? Or would he have just ducked them, like he did with everyone who could actually fight back?
Another thing to wrap your mind around, where does he rank on the ATG LHW or even in a Pound-Per-Pound sense? Sure he 'cleaned' the LHW division, but he wasn't exactly facing opponents of great stature either.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Well the evidence shows differently...he never would fight WBO champion Dariusz Michaczewski nor would he face 'interim LHW champion' Graciano Rocchigiani, and opted to face off against stiffs like Clinton Woods and Ricky Frazier.
It's not secret that Jones was only in it for the big money, and was unwilling to take risks, and if he wouldn't risk his title against those two men, as well as a few other more capable fighters, what makes anyone think he would [if it was possible] risk them against the likes of Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Bob Foster and Micheal Spinks, who were truly greats of the game?
It's not secret that Jones was only in it for the big money, and was unwilling to take risks, and if he wouldn't risk his title against those two men, as well as a few other more capable fighters, what makes anyone think he would [if it was possible] risk them against the likes of Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Bob Foster and Micheal Spinks, who were truly greats of the game?
Jones was a very good fighter. He had great talent but he didn't have sound skills (I guess not at a level for the fighter he was percieved to be). Once his reflexes and speed dulled the fundamentals weren't there. He got hit more often and showed a lack of self-confidence. He got flustered easily and hesitated a lot. He also showed a suspect chin. I think he got away with this because he was so hard to hit in his prime.
I think he would give anyone a fight and would take a few elite scalps in match ups but his lack of signature wins hurts him IMO.
I think he would give anyone a fight and would take a few elite scalps in match ups but his lack of signature wins hurts him IMO.
re
>>>Well the evidence shows differently...he never would fight WBO champion Dariusz Michaczewski nor would he face 'interim LHW champion' Graciano Rocchigiani, and opted to face off against stiffs like Clinton Woods and Ricky Frazier. <<<
The actual truthful evidence shows that DM would not fight Jones unless the fight took place in Germany...Jones offered to fight DM in England, but it was Germany, or nothing for DM. And while DM and other pretenders of the crown were fighting opponents that were ranked by absolutely no one...Jones was fighting and beating, maybe not the best ever, but he was fighting and beating the light heavyweights who were actually ranked in the top ten in all orgs including Ring.
Roy Jones was the best of the last 20 years and one of the best of all time...the actual evidence of what he accomplished is proof enough for most...not to mention that Jones will also be a first ballot Hall of Famer when the time comes...do you think Rocchigiani, or DM will even be considered for the HOF...I doubt it very seriously...fighting the likes of Nicky Piper, Andrea Magi and others of that exact stature do not make a HOF fighter!!!
The actual truthful evidence shows that DM would not fight Jones unless the fight took place in Germany...Jones offered to fight DM in England, but it was Germany, or nothing for DM. And while DM and other pretenders of the crown were fighting opponents that were ranked by absolutely no one...Jones was fighting and beating, maybe not the best ever, but he was fighting and beating the light heavyweights who were actually ranked in the top ten in all orgs including Ring.
Roy Jones was the best of the last 20 years and one of the best of all time...the actual evidence of what he accomplished is proof enough for most...not to mention that Jones will also be a first ballot Hall of Famer when the time comes...do you think Rocchigiani, or DM will even be considered for the HOF...I doubt it very seriously...fighting the likes of Nicky Piper, Andrea Magi and others of that exact stature do not make a HOF fighter!!!
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overhand_right
- Heavyweight
RJJ proved he had the balls to risk his health, pride, and dignity when he went up to fight Ruiz. All these fighters that never came off were down to egos, money, promoters, tv.... general POLITICS.
Stupidest mistake he ever made was to deplete himself back down to light-heavy... After he beat Ruiz he should have just sat back & awaited Lewis or Tyson. If they knock him out, big deal, still an incredible career. If the fights never took place, ride off into the sunset, on top of his game.
If he hadn't gone back down to light-heavy his record would be flawless & would be reluctantly held in high regard.
IMO.
Stupidest mistake he ever made was to deplete himself back down to light-heavy... After he beat Ruiz he should have just sat back & awaited Lewis or Tyson. If they knock him out, big deal, still an incredible career. If the fights never took place, ride off into the sunset, on top of his game.
If he hadn't gone back down to light-heavy his record would be flawless & would be reluctantly held in high regard.
IMO.
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dr_devious
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5348
- Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 09:19
The fact remains though that Jones didnt fight many of the top guys at 168 and didnt fight the German one at 175 and his opposition at 160 is hardly aweinspiring!... all in all Jones was a great talent undoubtedly, but for me his career leaves a bad taste in the mouth for a number of reasons... not least a certain failed drugs test which was hurriedly hushed up and seems never to get mentioned much... the fact that Jones career has slumped so dramatically since this test leads me to some worrying assumptions regarding his ability in the first place!. 
..
In all my time watching boxing I've never seen someone seemingly lose most of their skills and speed seemingly over night!... why??...
:x 
..In all my time watching boxing I've never seen someone seemingly lose most of their skills and speed seemingly over night!... why??...
:x -
overhand_right
- Heavyweight
... Maybe because he was 35 years old & draining his pumped up body back to light-heavy?
He didnt fight Dairus... Darius didnt fight RJJ either. Darius refused to come out of Germany. You cant just blame RJJ.
Who else could he have beat up on at super-middle? He beat James Toney who would have chewed up the likes of Benn, Eubank, Collins.
The reason the losses are held against RJJ is because people despised his arrogance for so long they took a great amount of glee in his sudden fall from grace.
He didnt fight Dairus... Darius didnt fight RJJ either. Darius refused to come out of Germany. You cant just blame RJJ.
Who else could he have beat up on at super-middle? He beat James Toney who would have chewed up the likes of Benn, Eubank, Collins.
The reason the losses are held against RJJ is because people despised his arrogance for so long they took a great amount of glee in his sudden fall from grace.
I don't think Jones is alone in substance abuse. I think it's rife in almost all sports. I do consider thjis though when matching up old timers with contemporary figthers.silkov wrote:The fact remains though that Jones didnt fight many of the top guys at 168 and didnt fight the German one at 175 and his opposition at 160 is hardly aweinspiring!... all in all Jones was a great talent undoubtedly, but for me his career leaves a bad taste in the mouth for a number of reasons... not least a certain failed drugs test which was hurriedly hushed up and seems never to get mentioned much... the fact that Jones career has slumped so dramatically since this test leads me to some worrying assumptions regarding his ability in the first place!.
In all my time watching boxing I've never seen someone seemingly lose most of their skills and speed seemingly over night!... why??...
I'll never understand why Joes didn't take those fights. I'd have backed him in all of them. If Jones had taken these fights, fought McClellan (not his fault), Benn, Toney II, Hopkins II, etc... then he'd be right up there.
I don't hold the recent defeats up against him too much, especially not in terms of his record. The manner of the defeats bother me though. The way he just folded psychologically against Johnson makes me question his ability to cope with real elite fighters. The one punch KO by Tarver also makes me fear for his chin against top bangers like Spinks and Foster who have the reach and skill to hit him in is prime years.
re
>>>The fact remains though that Jones didnt fight many of the top guys at 168 and didnt fight the German one at 175 and his opposition at 160 is hardly aweinspiring!<<<
Didn't fight many top guys...he fought the guy who was considered not only to be the very best supermiddleweight, but also considered to be the P4P best in boxing and Jones beat Toney with such ease that it wasn't even a contest!
I hear some people try to make claim to guys like Steve Collins, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank, but the FACT is that Benn and Eubank wanted nothing to do with Jones and Collins, like DM pretended to want the fight, but would not come to the U.S. for the fight! Jones never ducked anyone...he didn't have to...he was head and shoulders above every single fighter out there in his weight range...as a matter of fact...there were only a couple of heavyweights who could have beaten Jones when he was at the top of his game and that would be due only to size...certainly not skill compared to Jones. Lennox Lewis would have been a very tough fight for Jones to win as Lewis is a counter-puncher. If Lewis came straight forward and tried to mob Jones then Jones would have stood a solid chance of winning, but Lewis was smarter than that and due to the fact that Lewis stayed back it would have been vitually impossible for Jones to get inside of Lewis without getting knocked out!
At middleweight...well again, Jones just beat the middleweight who many now try to put right up there with Hagler, Monzon and other greats, yet Jones beat Hopkins with the same kind of ridiculous ease that he beat Toney! Those two matches are really all that needs to be said about Jones at 160 and 168...aside from Jones...they were the two best middleweights of the last 20 years...and that is FACT!!!!
At light heavyweight...it wasn't Jones' fault that there was not an abundance of talent at 175...but aside from DM, Jones beat every other top ranked light heavyweight and aside from Richard Frazier and maybe Glen Kelly, the rest of Jones' oppostion were top ranked fighters...while Dm fought guys that were not even ranked in the top 20...not just one, or two non-ranked opponents...DM almost exclusively fought the weakest opposition at 175, which people can deny, but they certainly can not prove other-wise!
Jones was unbeatable for 15 years...many fighters struggle to remain at the top for 5+ years yet Jones was at the very, very top for 15+ years and while DM refused to fight the likes of William Guthrie, Lou Del Valle, Reggie Johnson, etc...Roy Jones beat them with such ease that it was really ridiculous! The FACTS of his career speak for themselves and people can try to make up whatever claims they want, but the actual, honest FACTS of Jones' career points to him being one of the best of all-time!
Didn't fight many top guys...he fought the guy who was considered not only to be the very best supermiddleweight, but also considered to be the P4P best in boxing and Jones beat Toney with such ease that it wasn't even a contest!
I hear some people try to make claim to guys like Steve Collins, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank, but the FACT is that Benn and Eubank wanted nothing to do with Jones and Collins, like DM pretended to want the fight, but would not come to the U.S. for the fight! Jones never ducked anyone...he didn't have to...he was head and shoulders above every single fighter out there in his weight range...as a matter of fact...there were only a couple of heavyweights who could have beaten Jones when he was at the top of his game and that would be due only to size...certainly not skill compared to Jones. Lennox Lewis would have been a very tough fight for Jones to win as Lewis is a counter-puncher. If Lewis came straight forward and tried to mob Jones then Jones would have stood a solid chance of winning, but Lewis was smarter than that and due to the fact that Lewis stayed back it would have been vitually impossible for Jones to get inside of Lewis without getting knocked out!
At middleweight...well again, Jones just beat the middleweight who many now try to put right up there with Hagler, Monzon and other greats, yet Jones beat Hopkins with the same kind of ridiculous ease that he beat Toney! Those two matches are really all that needs to be said about Jones at 160 and 168...aside from Jones...they were the two best middleweights of the last 20 years...and that is FACT!!!!
At light heavyweight...it wasn't Jones' fault that there was not an abundance of talent at 175...but aside from DM, Jones beat every other top ranked light heavyweight and aside from Richard Frazier and maybe Glen Kelly, the rest of Jones' oppostion were top ranked fighters...while Dm fought guys that were not even ranked in the top 20...not just one, or two non-ranked opponents...DM almost exclusively fought the weakest opposition at 175, which people can deny, but they certainly can not prove other-wise!
Jones was unbeatable for 15 years...many fighters struggle to remain at the top for 5+ years yet Jones was at the very, very top for 15+ years and while DM refused to fight the likes of William Guthrie, Lou Del Valle, Reggie Johnson, etc...Roy Jones beat them with such ease that it was really ridiculous! The FACTS of his career speak for themselves and people can try to make up whatever claims they want, but the actual, honest FACTS of Jones' career points to him being one of the best of all-time!
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
Re: Roy Jones, Jr.
Buster Douglas!! What have you been smoking Irish??IrishRufusMurphy wrote: *He never fought… Buster Douglas
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
Re: re
Agreed. So there were a few guys he didn't fight? There isn't a single fighter in history you can't say that about.barry wrote:>>>Well the evidence shows differently...he never would fight WBO champion Dariusz Michaczewski nor would he face 'interim LHW champion' Graciano Rocchigiani, and opted to face off against stiffs like Clinton Woods and Ricky Frazier. <<<
The actual truthful evidence shows that DM would not fight Jones unless the fight took place in Germany...Jones offered to fight DM in England, but it was Germany, or nothing for DM. And while DM and other pretenders of the crown were fighting opponents that were ranked by absolutely no one...Jones was fighting and beating, maybe not the best ever, but he was fighting and beating the light heavyweights who were actually ranked in the top ten in all orgs including Ring.
Roy Jones was the best of the last 20 years and one of the best of all time...the actual evidence of what he accomplished is proof enough for most...not to mention that Jones will also be a first ballot Hall of Famer when the time comes...do you think Rocchigiani, or DM will even be considered for the HOF...I doubt it very seriously...fighting the likes of Nicky Piper, Andrea Magi and others of that exact stature do not make a HOF fighter!!!
re
>>>not least a certain failed drugs test which was hurriedly hushed up and seems never to get mentioned much<<<
As I have asked every other person who has ever tried to make that claim...where is your evidence...where is any evidence?
And for someone who is so praising of Vitali Klitschko it is ironic that you would mention the bogus steroid claim about Jones when Vitali was a steroid freak during the 80s and probably for most of his professional career as well...but the big difference between the claim about Jones and the claim about Vitali...there is evidence of steroid abuse for Vitali, but I have yet to see the first thing about Jones...other than a few people on message boards making the claim...but none have ever...I repeat...none have ever been able to present any of the supposed evidence!
As I have asked every other person who has ever tried to make that claim...where is your evidence...where is any evidence?
And for someone who is so praising of Vitali Klitschko it is ironic that you would mention the bogus steroid claim about Jones when Vitali was a steroid freak during the 80s and probably for most of his professional career as well...but the big difference between the claim about Jones and the claim about Vitali...there is evidence of steroid abuse for Vitali, but I have yet to see the first thing about Jones...other than a few people on message boards making the claim...but none have ever...I repeat...none have ever been able to present any of the supposed evidence!
re
>>>Agreed. So there were a few guys he didn't fight? There isn't a single fighter in history you can't say that about.<<<
Exactly!!! Though it would be scary to list all the fighters that DM failed to face...or all the fighters that Benn, Eubank, Collins, Calzaghe, Rocchigiani failed to fight...if Jones "dodged" a few fighters then these guys dodged entire divisions!
Exactly!!! Though it would be scary to list all the fighters that DM failed to face...or all the fighters that Benn, Eubank, Collins, Calzaghe, Rocchigiani failed to fight...if Jones "dodged" a few fighters then these guys dodged entire divisions!
Re: re
barry wrote:>>>not least a certain failed drugs test which was hurriedly hushed up and seems never to get mentioned much<<<
As I have asked every other person who has ever tried to make that claim...where is your evidence...where is any evidence?
And for someone who is so praising of Vitali Klitschko it is ironic that you would mention the bogus steroid claim about Jones when Vitali was a steroid freak during the 80s and probably for most of his professional career as well...but the big difference between the claim about Jones and the claim about Vitali...there is evidence of steroid abuse for Vitali, but I have yet to see the first thing about Jones...other than a few people on message boards making the claim...but none have ever...I repeat...none have ever been able to present any of the supposed evidence!
Very true. I've never seen evidence to suggest Jones was a roid head. That's bollocks. Meanwhile, the steroid brothers are (or were) known abusers.
re
>>>Meanwhile, the steroid brothers are (or were) known abusers<<<
So very true...which if that put such a bad taste in silkovs mouth about Jones...looks like he would be throwing up about the Klitschko's!
>>>The reason the losses are held against RJJ is because people despised his arrogance for so long they took a great amount of glee in his sudden fall from grace.<<<
Again...so very true! 15 years of having to deal with the FACT that Jones was the best must have been tough!
So very true...which if that put such a bad taste in silkovs mouth about Jones...looks like he would be throwing up about the Klitschko's!
>>>The reason the losses are held against RJJ is because people despised his arrogance for so long they took a great amount of glee in his sudden fall from grace.<<<
Again...so very true! 15 years of having to deal with the FACT that Jones was the best must have been tough!
Re: re
At least Klitchenko came clean about his use of steroids when he was young and he speaks out now against its use... I dont hear Roy doing anything simular!....barry wrote:>>>Meanwhile, the steroid brothers are (or were) known abusers<<<
So very true...which if that put such a bad taste in silkovs mouth about Jones...looks like he would be throwing up about the Klitschko's!
>>>The reason the losses are held against RJJ is because people despised his arrogance for so long they took a great amount of glee in his sudden fall from grace.<<<
Again...so very true! 15 years of having to deal with the FACT that Jones was the best must have been tough!
Fact is how good would Roy have been without a little help from his little boosters???....
re
>>>>At least Klitchenko came clean about his use of steroids when he was young and he speaks out now against its use... I dont hear Roy doing anything simular!.... Fact is how good would Roy have been without a little help from his little boosters???<<<
Jones has nothing to come clean about...and as I stated earlier...there is no evidence...just the typical, yapping bullshit that is about as factual as Vitali Quitshcko not being a quitter! Do you have any kind of evidence, or will you do the usual and just make up more shit...how about presenting some FACTS for a change?
Jones has nothing to come clean about...and as I stated earlier...there is no evidence...just the typical, yapping bullshit that is about as factual as Vitali Quitshcko not being a quitter! Do you have any kind of evidence, or will you do the usual and just make up more shit...how about presenting some FACTS for a change?
Re: re
silkov wrote:At least Klitchenko came clean about his use of steroids when he was young and he speaks out now against its use... I dont hear Roy doing anything simular!....barry wrote:>>>Meanwhile, the steroid brothers are (or were) known abusers<<<
So very true...which if that put such a bad taste in silkovs mouth about Jones...looks like he would be throwing up about the Klitschko's!
>>>The reason the losses are held against RJJ is because people despised his arrogance for so long they took a great amount of glee in his sudden fall from grace.<<<
Again...so very true! 15 years of having to deal with the FACT that Jones was the best must have been tough!
Fact is how good would Roy have been without a little help from his little boosters???....
Came clean?!?!?!?!?! Maybe because he was caught? That's very admirable of him (them)
Do you have any facts about Jones supposed steroid abuse or is it all speculation, rumours and innuendo?
BTW, please learn how to spell.
re
>>>Came clean?!?!?!?!?! Maybe because he was caught? That's very admirable of him (them)<<<
LOL...Yeah it's very admirable to come clean after someone else busted you and came clean for you...very admirable how Quitschko kept quiet until caught...LOL
LOL...Yeah it's very admirable to come clean after someone else busted you and came clean for you...very admirable how Quitschko kept quiet until caught...LOL
Re: re
The results were posted on the net and printed in Boxing News!... fact!... the fact that you seek to deny it just goes to show how biased you are.barry wrote:>>>>At least Klitchenko came clean about his use of steroids when he was young and he speaks out now against its use... I dont hear Roy doing anything simular!.... Fact is how good would Roy have been without a little help from his little boosters???<<<
Jones has nothing to come clean about...and as I stated earlier...there is no evidence...just the typical, yapping bullshit that is about as factual as Vitali Quitshcko not being a quitter! Do you have any kind of evidence, or will you do the usual and just make up more shit...how about presenting some FACTS for a change?
As per usual you're getting personal because you dont like what is being said. This thread isnt about Vitali but about Jones... if you cant debate without swearing or insulting then I'm not going to bother answering you.... but you're seriously deluded if you think that I'm making it up about Jones failing the drugs test... as for the Vitali question, move on mate, ...I have.
Re: re
Well Jones is still being quiet even after being caught... at least Klitchenko has made some steps towards putting things right and is actively telling people to avoid the damned stuff.barry wrote:>>>Came clean?!?!?!?!?! Maybe because he was caught? That's very admirable of him (them)<<<
LOL...Yeah it's very admirable to come clean after someone else busted you and came clean for you...very admirable how Quitschko kept quiet until caught...LOL
I realise you dont like this as your a big Jones fan but try and be mature about it... going on about 'Quitschko' is just pathetic... especially considering that Roy is hardly mr Braveheart in the ring... the way he stank the joint out in the last Tarver fight was embarrasing!
Re: re
silkov wrote:The results were posted on the net and printed in Boxing News!... fact!... the fact that you seek to deny it just goes to show how biased you are.barry wrote:>>>>At least Klitchenko came clean about his use of steroids when he was young and he speaks out now against its use... I dont hear Roy doing anything simular!.... Fact is how good would Roy have been without a little help from his little boosters???<<<
Jones has nothing to come clean about...and as I stated earlier...there is no evidence...just the typical, yapping bullshit that is about as factual as Vitali Quitshcko not being a quitter! Do you have any kind of evidence, or will you do the usual and just make up more shit...how about presenting some FACTS for a change?
As per usual you're getting personal because you dont like what is being said. This thread isnt about Vitali but about Jones... if you cant debate without swearing or insulting then I'm not going to bother answering you.... but you're seriously deluded if you think that I'm making it up about Jones failing the drugs test... as for the Vitali question, move on mate, ...I have.
It's funny how something that was supposedly posted all over the net and published, on seemingly a huge story, didn't receive much play anywhere else. Probably because, like you and your baseless posts, it was based on rumour and innuendo. Get some common sense, dude, and try presenting some facts, for a change.