Premature Stoppages

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 02 Oct 2006, 17:24

Going by the following criteria, what do you think were the biggest premature stoppages in boxing history?

1. Fight must be important; either a title fight or atleast a fight with two legititmate contenders.

2. The stoppage was definitely too early. Not a borderline case.

3. The fighter that got stopped had a very good chance to win the fight.

One that I thought of off the top of my head was Saad Muhammad-Jerry Martin. Martin seemed to be ahead, got into a little trouble and suddenly the referee stopped it.

What are some other fights that you guys think were stopped prematurely?

MEISINGER · Post by **MEISINGER** » 02 Oct 2006, 21:20

MICHAEL DOKES VS MIKE WEAVER FIRST FIGHT.
WEAVER WAS FAR FROM OUT AT THE TIME OF THE STOPPAGE.

TigerMoth · Post by **TigerMoth** » 02 Oct 2006, 22:29

Chavez vs Meldrick Tayloy.

Worst I have ever seen. Many time I have seen a referee take more time to get the fighters attention to make sure he was OK to continue. And, considering, someone, I don't know who, makes an audible sound to inciate 10 seconds left and it was less than 10 seconds - an abomination. By the time the fighters had walked across the ring to engage again the fight would have been over.

Contrast this to many other fights when a fighter has been down and out, or so it seems, in earlier rounds, and comes back.

How the fornicate could you stop that fight?

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 03 Oct 2006, 03:53

It was a terrible stoppage. HE GOT UP! I seen referees give guys the benifit of the doubt.

Steele also did a premature stoppage in the Mancini/Chacon fight which was turning into a war!

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 03 Oct 2006, 04:55

Ali v. Liston II, Tyson v. Ruddock I, Moorer v. Swindell I (though the chances winning for the victims were small). I also think Ali v. Foreman was stopped a bit prematurely. Foreman wasn't hurt that bad and seemed to get up in time.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 03 Oct 2006, 05:04

Decagon wrote:Lewis-McCall I. The outcome of that match changed the face of boxing history. If Lewis had at least had a chance to come back, he wouldn't have lost in his prime. Heck, he'd probably be a top-5 heavyweight.

Good shout.
Don't see many champions get up at 6,then not allowed to continue....

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 03 Oct 2006, 05:19

yiddo14 wrote:
Decagon wrote:Lewis-McCall I. The outcome of that match changed the face of boxing history. If Lewis had at least had a chance to come back, he wouldn't have lost in his prime. Heck, he'd probably be a top-5 heavyweight.
Good shout.
Don't see many champions get up at 6,then not allowed to continue....

He was wobbling all over the place. Good stoppage.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 03 Oct 2006, 06:49

generic screen name wrote:It was a terrible stoppage. HE GOT UP! I seen referees give guys the benifit of the doubt.

I happen to agree with Decagon on this controversial stoppage. Steele CLEARLY asked Taylor if he was OK and Taylor looked blankly away from him and offered no response. Forget about how much time was left in the bout as that is irrelevant.

generic screen name wrote: Steele also did a premature stoppage in the Mancini/Chacon fight which was turning into a war!

From memory this was a one-sided beating with Mancini all over Chacon pummelling the crap out of him. We all know Chacon can take a punch (look at him now) and we also remember what happened to Duk-koo Kim against Mancini a few years prior. I agree with this stoppage.

Two perfect examples :

David Tua v Hasim Rahman I - Rahman was ahead on the cards by Rd 10 ; he was slipping most of Tua's barrage ; he didn't go down ; he wasn't hurt.

Miguel Cotto v DeMarcus Corley - Corley took another 8 count on his knee after Cotto grazed the top of his head and without giving Corley a chance to clear his head in a championship fight the referee stopped the bout. As Larry Merchant said at at the time . . . " that. . . is a. . . DISGRACE!"

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 03 Oct 2006, 07:18

Ali-Lyle

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 03 Oct 2006, 07:21

The Great John L wrote:Ali-Lyle

agreed

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 03 Oct 2006, 07:48

wouter wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:
Decagon wrote:Lewis-McCall I. The outcome of that match changed the face of boxing history. If Lewis had at least had a chance to come back, he wouldn't have lost in his prime. Heck, he'd probably be a top-5 heavyweight.
Good shout.
Don't see many champions get up at 6,then not allowed to continue....
He was wobbling all over the place. Good stoppage.

He was shaky yes,but I have seen fighters in FAR worse condition be allowed to continue.
In Frank Maloney's book he slags it off(of course I know he would,as he was his manager!)but he mentions something about Lewis being the first heavyweight champion to be stopped whilst holding his hands up and saying he is ready to continue.
Look at Frazier v Foreman,hell,look at Briggs v Lewis! Both these guys were given far more opportunity from the ref after their knockdowns.

I think if he was a journeyman,giving a young up and coming fighter a test,then yes,it was fair to stop it.But,being the heavyweight champion of the world,you deserve a chance to come out fighting.

One thing is for sure,if the ref had allowed Lewis to continue,a LOT of posters on here would be unhappy,as they would'nt be able to bring up this KO when hating on Lewis!!

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 03 Oct 2006, 07:53

yiddo14 wrote:One thing is for sure,if the ref had allowed Lewis to continue,a LOT of posters on here would be unhappy,as they would'nt be able to bring up this KO when hating on Lewis!!

That's for sure?? I think the fight might have lasted a few seconds longer, that's all. I'm not a Lewis hater, I just recognize a legit stoppage when I see one.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 03 Oct 2006, 08:36

Leonard vs Benitez was premature. Even though I was for Leonard in this fight I would say that Benitez was not really hurt that bad at all. Ray was clearly in control and landing a fair amount of shots but alot of them were not clean shots as Benitez still had the where with all to slip most of these punches. I think the referee was fooled by the volume rather tha noticing most were not clean or were missing.

Buster Drayton vs Davey Moore. The momentum had swung in Busters favor but Moore was not in serious trouble. A very strange stoppage.

These fights were a sharp contrast to the old days where they sometimes waited to long to stop a fight. The one I remeber was Graziano/Zale III. Zale hit him with his big left hook which seemed to be at will. Gaziano was knoked down and barley got up at the count of nine,fell back down or so it seemed but fell into the ropes wich held him up. Remarkably the referee alowed the fight to continue. Subsequently Graziano was knock out for a very long period of time. Lucky he was not seriously hurt.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 03 Oct 2006, 08:51

generic screen name wrote:It was a terrible stoppage. HE GOT UP! I seen referees give guys the benifit of the doubt.

Steele also did a premature stoppage in the Mancini/Chacon fight which was turning into a war!

Totally agree on Mancinni/Chacon. You have to look at it that it is a fight and a man deserves a chance. The bad part is it could have been a great fight but now we'll never know. :x

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 03 Oct 2006, 08:57

wouter wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:One thing is for sure,if the ref had allowed Lewis to continue,a LOT of posters on here would be unhappy,as they would'nt be able to bring up this KO when hating on Lewis!!
That's for sure?? I think the fight might have lasted a few seconds longer, that's all. I'm not a Lewis hater, I just recognize a legit stoppage when I see one.

I have absolutely no problem with the stoppage in this fight, but it’s not exactly a stretch to think that even a VERY shaky Lewis may have been able to survive against McCall. McCall has never been considered a great finisher, or a high volume puncher.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 03 Oct 2006, 09:02

wouter wrote:Ali v. Liston II

I remember Liston not beating the 10 count, but Walcott getting confused and allowing the fight to continue. Or is my memory failing on this one? This is one of those fights that I haven’t bothered watching in years because it really wasn’t much of a fight; more an event. But wouldn’t it be considered more bizarre, or controversial than a premature stoppage?

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 03 Oct 2006, 09:10

The Great John L wrote:
wouter wrote:Ali v. Liston II
I remember Liston not beating the 10 count, but Walcott getting confused and allowing the fight to continue. Or is my memory failing on this one? This is one of those fights that I haven’t bothered watching in years because it really wasn’t much of a fight; more an event. But wouldn’t it be considered more bizarre, or controversial than a premature stoppage?

There never was a count.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 03 Oct 2006, 09:17

wouter wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
wouter wrote:Ali v. Liston II
I remember Liston not beating the 10 count, but Walcott getting confused and allowing the fight to continue. Or is my memory failing on this one? This is one of those fights that I haven’t bothered watching in years because it really wasn’t much of a fight; more an event. But wouldn’t it be considered more bizarre, or controversial than a premature stoppage?
There never was a count.

I see your point, but LIston was down for more than 10 seconds. Definitely controversial.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 03 Oct 2006, 09:23

Declaring a fighter winner by knockout before starting a count is a bit premature, I'd say.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 03 Oct 2006, 09:37

Decagon wrote:Lewis-McCall I. The outcome of that match changed the face of boxing history. If Lewis had at least had a chance to come back, he wouldn't have lost in his prime. Heck, he'd probably be a top-5 heavyweight.

Lewis would never have made the top five all time list... he just wasnt good enough and neither was his opposition... if he'd been allowed to go on against Mccall he would have just been hurt more and koed... when he got up his legs were gone... the stoppage probably prolonged his career whereas a bad ko might have ruined him...

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 03 Oct 2006, 13:27

kick asner wrote:Leonard vs Benitez was premature. Even though I was for Leonard in this fight I would say that Benitez was not really hurt that bad at all. Ray was clearly in control and landing a fair amount of shots but alot of them were not clean shots as Benitez still had the where with all to slip most of these punches. I think the referee was fooled by the volume rather tha noticing most were not clean or were missing.

Buster Drayton vs Davey Moore. The momentum had swung in Busters favor but Moore was not in serious trouble. A very strange stoppage.

These fights were a sharp contrast to the old days where they sometimes waited to long to stop a fight. The one I remeber was Graziano/Zale III. Zale hit him with his big left hook which seemed to be at will. Gaziano was knoked down and barley got up at the count of nine,fell back down or so it seemed but fell into the ropes wich held him up. Remarkably the referee alowed the fight to continue. Subsequently Graziano was knock out for a very long period of time. Lucky he was not seriously hurt.

Kick- The referee could have let Benitez continue, but it really wouldn't made much difference. there wasn't much time left and Leonard was winning and would have won the decision.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 03 Oct 2006, 13:53

Ambling Alp wrote:
kick asner wrote:Leonard vs Benitez was premature. Even though I was for Leonard in this fight I would say that Benitez was not really hurt that bad at all. Ray was clearly in control and landing a fair amount of shots but alot of them were not clean shots as Benitez still had the where with all to slip most of these punches. I think the referee was fooled by the volume rather tha noticing most were not clean or were missing.

Buster Drayton vs Davey Moore. The momentum had swung in Busters favor but Moore was not in serious trouble. A very strange stoppage.

These fights were a sharp contrast to the old days where they sometimes waited to long to stop a fight. The one I remeber was Graziano/Zale III. Zale hit him with his big left hook which seemed to be at will. Gaziano was knoked down and barley got up at the count of nine,fell back down or so it seemed but fell into the ropes wich held him up. Remarkably the referee alowed the fight to continue. Subsequently Graziano was knock out for a very long period of time. Lucky he was not seriously hurt.
Kick- The referee could have let Benitez continue, but it really wouldn't made much difference. there wasn't much time left and Leonard was winning and would have won the decision.

Agree that Leonard would have won a clear cut decision, I was just going on the basis that it shouldn't have been a tko. But I see that my example falls a bit outside of you're criteria.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 03 Oct 2006, 14:41

Decagon wrote:Steele asked Taylor if he wanted to continue - twice - and Taylor didn't say shit. Taylor was gone, and that wasn't a bad stoppage. Forget that shit from HBO's Legendary Nights.

I think Steele had money on Chavez.. It almost looked like he was trying to stop the fight in time before the final bell.. There was only like 3 or 4 seconds left.

Dentsun4228 · Post by **Dentsun4228** » 03 Oct 2006, 20:42

JCS83MD wrote:
Decagon wrote:Steele asked Taylor if he wanted to continue - twice - and Taylor didn't say shit. Taylor was gone, and that wasn't a bad stoppage. Forget that shit from HBO's Legendary Nights.
I think Steele had money on Chavez.. It almost looked like he was trying to stop the fight in time before the final bell.. There was only like 3 or 4 seconds left.

If you watch HBO's Legendary Nights documentary of the fight, in one scene Steele effusively voices his admiration for Chavez. He was obviously a huge Chavez fan, going on about Chavez great skill and power etc, etc. Steele is kind of a dumbass...Taylor was up at the count of 6...he was distracted by his corner, but his legs were under him. It was a major title fight and he deserved a chance to finish. I've seen refs allow fights to continue when fighters were a lot shakier and unresponsive. By any standards it was a premature stoppage. I think Steele let his love for Chavez screw up his judgement that night.

Another bad stoppage was the Zab Judah- Tszyu fight. Zab went down, got back up and fell again...the ref stopped it at the count of 4. If he had kept counting 'til 8, Zab would have been fully recovered and back on his feet. Not saying he would have won, but once again, bad refereeing screwed the fighter. When refs are at a loss, when they find themselves in a situation that they've never been in before the best response not to panic and stop the fight...The fighters deserve better.

turn2stone · Post by **turn2stone** » 03 Oct 2006, 21:24

Decagon wrote:Lewis-McCall I. The outcome of that match changed the face of boxing history. If Lewis had at least had a chance to come back, he wouldn't have lost in his prime. Heck, he'd probably be a top-5 heavyweight.

stumbling with shaking legs into the ref's arms hurts that argument.

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