Frazier vs. Tyson primes

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 11 Nov 2006, 21:11

What do you think?

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 11 Nov 2006, 21:41

I think that most will come to the conclusion that Tyson takes Frazier out early. I also think that Frazier would survive some rather rocky early moments to steamroll Tyson about round 8

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 11 Nov 2006, 22:26

Tyson destroys Frazier, as Joe's chin would fail him.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 11 Nov 2006, 22:31

My hunch is that Frazier would take Tyson out early.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 11 Nov 2006, 22:39

Joe Frazier had more heart than Tyson, but that was it, Tyson had him beat in every other category. Tyson was a much quicker, harder and more accurate puncher. His head movement was way better. and he was an excellent counterpuncher in his prime. Tyson by KO in 2 or 3 rounds.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 12 Nov 2006, 01:05

Not really applicable since prime Tyson generally took care of business early. Frazier typically fought harder in the late rounds, but I'd attribute a big part of that to him having more heart. Tyson on the other hand looked a bit frustrated late against Bonecrusher and Tucker, but it had nothing at all to do with conditioning. Peak Tyson never got in the ring in less than top shape.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 12 Nov 2006, 01:27

Simultaneous first punch left hook double KO in round one. crazy I know.

This same outcome happens in any match-up between these three guys........

http://snurfer.org/ccdb/gfx/Mike%20Tyson.jpg

http://www.maxboxing.com/Media/JoeFrazier.jpg

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Images/tn_dempsey4.jpg

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 12 Nov 2006, 02:52

Decagon wrote:
Seamus wrote:Not really applicable since prime Tyson generally took care of business early. Frazier typically fought harder in the late rounds, but I'd attribute a big part of that to him having more heart. Tyson on the other hand looked a bit frustrated late against Bonecrusher and Tucker, but it had nothing at all to do with conditioning. Peak Tyson never got in the ring in less than top shape.
Laughable. Tyson had NO stamina after the fourth or fifth round. Even suggesting that he was anywhere the equal of Frazier in the last half of the fight is asinine. Tyson could get Frazier out in 3 or 4, but if he didn't, he'd almost assuredly lose.

This by the way is also how I see the outcome possibilities.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 12 Nov 2006, 05:50

Seamus wrote:Not really applicable since prime Tyson generally took care of business early. Frazier typically fought harder in the late rounds, but I'd attribute a big part of that to him having more heart. Tyson on the other hand looked a bit frustrated late against Bonecrusher and Tucker, but it had nothing at all to do with conditioning. Peak Tyson never got in the ring in less than top shape.

True,a peak Tyson did'nt get in the ring in anything less than peak shape.....he also did'nt get in the ring with an all time top 30 heavyweight,let alone a truly great fighter like smokin Joe.

I know a lot of Tyson fans like to think..what if...but if he ever fought Frazier,little Mikey would have got KO'ed.
Sure,Tyson was a destructive fighter,but I never see him destory a great fighter(and I have all his pre-prison fights on DVD)

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 12 Nov 2006, 06:36

Frazier had too much heart for Tyson.

Tyson would have had a chance had he caught Joe ala George Foreman.

Joe was a slow starter & Tyson was just the opposite & an excellent finisher to boot, but he just did not have the mental strength, stamina nor heart to go into the trenches with a Joe Frazier.

Frazier by TKO in about 9 rounds.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 12 Nov 2006, 08:29

Frazier had by far the stronger mentality and bigger heart and spirit... I think he'd scare Mike to death to be honest, ...also Tyson was pretty poor on the inside and didnt know what to do when smothered and pushed back... Frazier would stick to him like glue and ko him in about 8 rounds... Tyson was basically a bully while Frazier was 100% warrior and thats the biggest difference between them...

BO Selecta · Post by **BO Selecta** » 12 Nov 2006, 09:05

Frazier stops him mid rounds IMO.

Tyson would not have been able to deal with a relentless wrecking machine like Frazier.

Tyson is very knowledgeable about boxing history, but he never read the fight manuscript; the one that says you need a plan B if the opponent is not scared of you , does not fall at the merest hint of a hard punch (are you reading Bruce Seldon

) or gets back up ready to rumble again after a knockdown.

Frazier had too much of everything for Tyson. Mike would not have been able to cope.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 12 Nov 2006, 10:24

there're intangibles in this fight, Tyson liked to be rough but he didn't like it one bit when someone was rough back, the was they both come in low I can see a lot of head bumping and other shenanigans and that favours Frazier.
Tyson would have a great chance to finish the fight early but if he didn't and once Frazier got his rolling snowball momentum going it would become more and more one sided the longer the fight went on.

I can see Tyson finishing it early though and I think it's quite likely

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 12 Nov 2006, 11:00

mrbassie wrote:there're intangibles in this fight, Tyson liked to be rough but he didn't like it one bit when someone was rough back, the was they both come in low I can see a lot of head bumping and other shenanigans and that favours Frazier.
Tyson would have a great chance to finish the fight early but if he didn't and once Frazier got his rolling snowball momentum going it would become more and more one sided the longer the fight went on.

I can see Tyson finishing it early though and I think it's quite likely

The only person to finish Frazier early was Foreman and Tyson was no Foreman, he didnt have Foremans size nor his strength... its also worth remembering that Fraziers fights against Foreman are a little misleading... in the first he was undertrained and over confident and hadnt had a decent fight in 2 years, and in the second he was coming off the Manila war... so its fair to say really that Foreman never really fought a peak Frazier...

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 12 Nov 2006, 13:36

Its amusing to see people say that Tyson had no stamina, he sure didnt have the stamina of Frazier but he never got tired after 4-5 rounds as people claim! Fighters who tire out after 4-5 rounds are fighters like Shavers or even Coetzee, but sure not Tyson.

Tyson looked pretty good to me when in the late rounds of the Ribalta fightand proceeded to knock him down in the 8th, then finish him off with a brutal left hook in the 10th, he also never looked tired to me during the late stages of the Tucker fight and even had the power to knock Douglas down in the 8th- in a fight where he was severly being beaten to the punch everytime.
People's hate for Tyson is so severe that they even have to diminish his boxing skills and belittle his accomplishments, hate him as a man if you will but dont you dare hate on his accomplshments in the ring.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 12 Nov 2006, 13:44

RazorKO wrote:Its amusing to see people say that Tyson had no stamina, he sure didnt have the stamina of Frazier but he never got tired after 4-5 rounds as people claim! Fighters who tire out after 4-5 rounds are fighters like Shavers or even Coetzee, but sure not Tyson.

Tyson looked pretty good to me when in the late rounds of the Ribalta fightand proceeded to knock him down in the 8th, then finish him off with a brutal left hook in the 10th, he also never looked tired to me during the late stages of the Tucker fight and even had the power to knock Douglas down in the 8th- in a fight where he was severly being beaten to the punch everytime.
People's hate for Tyson is so severe that they even have to diminish his boxing skills and belittle his accomplishments, hate him as a man if you will but dont you dare hate on his accomplshments in the ring.

It's nothing to do with hate, it's comparing like with like.

Think of Frazier's fights with Ali & Bonavena for example, hard punishing fights with high quality opposition.

Could you imagine Tyson staying the course in those kind of fights, against that quality of opposition?

Those Tyson fights you have mentioned were not as punishing as the ones Frazier was in & the opposition was certainly not as great.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 12 Nov 2006, 13:48

Frazier had trouble with Bonavena, & Quarry gave him a tussle, but Tyson never beats the Joe Frazier of March 8th, 1971.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 13 Nov 2006, 12:26

Syntax Error wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Its amusing to see people say that Tyson had no stamina, he sure didnt have the stamina of Frazier but he never got tired after 4-5 rounds as people claim! Fighters who tire out after 4-5 rounds are fighters like Shavers or even Coetzee, but sure not Tyson.

Tyson looked pretty good to me when in the late rounds of the Ribalta fightand proceeded to knock him down in the 8th, then finish him off with a brutal left hook in the 10th, he also never looked tired to me during the late stages of the Tucker fight and even had the power to knock Douglas down in the 8th- in a fight where he was severly being beaten to the punch everytime.
People's hate for Tyson is so severe that they even have to diminish his boxing skills and belittle his accomplishments, hate him as a man if you will but dont you dare hate on his accomplshments in the ring.
It's nothing to do with hate, it's comparing like with like.

Think of Frazier's fights with Ali & Bonavena for example, hard punishing fights with high quality opposition.

Could you imagine Tyson staying the course in those kind of fights, against that quality of opposition?

Those Tyson fights you have mentioned were not as punishing as the ones Frazier was in & the opposition was certainly not as great.

I see your point, of course Frazier had more heart and more stamina than Tyson, but Tyson certainly wasnt an Earnie Shavers in terms of endunrance. Though Tyson showed he can be in there to stay against Ruddock in their rematch, though as a Ruddock fan the Razor certainly wasnt Ali and Frazier has been in more bruising encounters.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 13 Nov 2006, 12:30

Decagon wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Its amusing to see people say that Tyson had no stamina, he sure didnt have the stamina of Frazier but he never got tired after 4-5 rounds as people claim! Fighters who tire out after 4-5 rounds are fighters like Shavers or even Coetzee, but sure not Tyson.
No one's saying he got tired after four or five rounds; we're saying that Tyson's workrate dropped after four or five rounds. If he tried to fight 12 rounds the way he fought Round 1, he'd be exhausted. He never had the stamina to do anything like that. Frazier, on the other hand, did.

Well as you put it that way I agree that Tyson's workrate did drop but he still in my opinion had very good endurance, though not on the level of Frazier but on the other hand not many fighters had the workrate of Frazier.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 13 Nov 2006, 23:01

Actually...any thread that pits the weak minded, ear biting, heartless, over-hyped Tyson against anybody who was truly great...is somewhat of a joke...

cultus · Post by **cultus** » 14 Nov 2006, 02:47

Decagon wrote:His workrate not only dropped after the fourth round, but steadily continued to wane as the fight reached his conclusion. Tyson was a great fighter for five rounds, but after that, he could be beaten.

he fought at high workrate against Bonecrusher all the way till crusher started running. the stamina issue you are trying to imply is ridiculous.
Frazier was too slow for Mike.. that's all. And Frazier sucked

.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 14 Nov 2006, 05:04

I watched Tyson - Bonecrusher while on a drunken weekend down the beach with about a dozen non boxing followers. I ensured them there would be some major fireworks in the fight so no toilet breaks etc. At the end of the 12 they all wanted to know what the fuss was all about

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Nov 2006, 14:08

whenever a big heart and big bully enter the ring I side with the big heart....this is a Frazier win on will power alone. Frazier would not freeze in the face of Tyson's Rep.....and it would not work against him quite the same way it did with Foreman.

IMHO

Also I would not be surprised if this would not be a "counter intuitive" round robin where Foreman beats Frazier, who beats Tyson who Beats Foreman. Though I would be one of the ones betting on Foreman to beat Tyson as well.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 14 Nov 2006, 14:40

BoxBuzz wrote:whenever a big heart and big bully enter the ring I side with the big heart....this is a Frazier win on will power alone. Frazier would not freeze in the face of Tyson's Rep.....

Tyson would run into a wall of granite if he tried to stalk Frazier, and a wall that hit's back.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 15 Nov 2006, 15:09

cultus wrote: And Frazier sucked .

...so much for ever taking YOU seriously...

Frazier vs. Tyson primes

Frazier vs. Tyson primes

Tysob- Frazier