Where do you place Lennox Lewis as an ATG heavyweight

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Nov 2006, 10:18

Let's see whether there is anything to the claim made in another thread that Lennox doesn't get enough respect.

I have him in the 6-10 bracket. 11-20 would seem a defensible choice too.

Better than #6 and lower than #20 seems hard to defend, however, and I'd appreciate if whoever votes like this would give a couple of compelling reasons.

JC · Post by JC » 22 Nov 2006, 10:23

I had him at 10 last list I made I wouldn't have a problem with someone having him 10-15.

Biggest problem I have with making a heavyweight list is where to rank Jefferies and Langford.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Nov 2006, 10:29

J-C wrote:I had him at 10 last list I made I wouldn't have a problem with someone having him 10-15.

Biggest problem I have with making a heavyweight list is where to rank Jefferies and Langford.

Yeah, ranking the pre-1920s fighters is difficult, not at least because we rarely possess adequate film.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 22 Nov 2006, 11:27

pundit wrote:Let's see whether there is anything to the claim made in another thread that Lennox doesn't get enough respect.

I have him in the 6-10 bracket. 11-20 would seem a defensible choice too.

Better than #6 and lower than #20 seems hard to defend, however, and I'd appreciate if whoever votes like this would give a couple of compelling reasons.

Isn't 11-20 better than #6 and lower than #20????

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 22 Nov 2006, 11:33

If it's PFP I'd have Lewis well down the list, but head to head all time I'd rate him top 5 easily.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 22 Nov 2006, 14:39

Lewis in my view should be classed between 25 - 30, it is out of the question to include him in the top 10 or even top 15, name one great HW who has been knocked out by not only one journeyman but two and both by a single punch? - Thats the reason why he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentance as real great Heavyweights.

Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Dempsey - These are what you call great heavyweights.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Nov 2006, 14:44

RazorKO wrote:Lewis in my view should be classed between 25 - 30, it is out of the question to include him in the top 10 or even top 15, name one great HW who has been knocked out by not only one journeyman but two and both by a single punch? - Thats the reason why he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentance as real great Heavyweights.

If that's your only criterion, Rocky Marciano or Gene Tunney must be your #1 (neither of which, strangely, you included undeneath). They never lost at HW.

Butterbean also kept a clean record for quite some time.

Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Dempsey - These are what you call great heavyweights.

The Durable Dane · Post by **The Durable Dane** » 22 Nov 2006, 14:48

i would rate him 11-20...

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 22 Nov 2006, 15:00

RazorKO wrote:Lewis in my view should be classed between 25 - 30, it is out of the question to include him in the top 10 or even top 15, name one great HW who has been knocked out by not only one journeyman but two and both by a single punch? - Thats the reason why he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentance as real great Heavyweights.

Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Dempsey - These are what you call great heavyweights.

Well how can you rate a fighter an ATG who was completely out boxed in his prime by a guy with a mediocre 20-5-2 record and only 7 KOs?? Or a guy who was KOd in one round(!!) by an old LHW with a record of 38-27-17, and out boxed several times by an obese club fighter who was only 5’9” tall??

You can try to find reasons for justifying any rankings you want, but putting Lewis in the 25-30 range is pretty indefensible. Do you still rank Coetzee and Ruddock higher than Lewis?

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 22 Nov 2006, 15:44

I have Lennox between 9-15.......not exactly sure where but can see valid points for any spot within that zone.

monkeybusiness · Post by **monkeybusiness** » 22 Nov 2006, 17:26

I have Lewis around number 8. I do think he is under-rated while others around him are over-rated.
You can only fight the guys around which Lewis did-avoided by Tyson and Bowe wasnt his fault. He beat the guys seen as the threats at the time-Golota, Briggs, Grant, Tua. He did lose by KO twice but easily avebged those to show what he should have done first time.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 22 Nov 2006, 18:17

I rate Lennox 5-7 with Liston and Foreman. I think he achieved more than these two but wouldnt fancy him head to head with them at their peak, would put Frazier a tad behind. So 6-10, I'd probably rank Sonny Liston at 5

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 22 Nov 2006, 20:00

Not even top 30; ??? is that a laugh?

Not 'even' in an ATG list at all...!!!!!

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 23 Nov 2006, 02:50

between 6-10
lewis would give any ATG a tough fight, i think a fight between him and holmes would have been very intresting

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 23 Nov 2006, 08:34

6-10.

Though with his weight advantage he would probably beat most in the top 5 who were around 190-200 pounds

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 23 Nov 2006, 14:47

RazorKO wrote:Name one great HW who has been knocked out by not only one journeyman but two and both by a single punch?
Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Dempsey - These are what you call great heavyweights.

Dempsey was knocked out with 1 punch by a journeyman 10 seconds into the fight...

Thunder and Lightning · Post by **Thunder and Lightning** » 23 Nov 2006, 16:02

To me he fits in the top 10 he did beat all the HW that were willing to fight him in his era exept maybe Ruiz (and thank the lord for that).
As for his two losses every fighter can have bad luck and get nailed like Ali who got knocked on his ass by cooper that shouldn't have happned either.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 23 Nov 2006, 17:12

Thunder and Lightning wrote:To me he fits in the top 10 he did beat all the HW that were willing to fight him in his era exept maybe Ruiz (and thank the lord for that).
As for his two losses every fighter can have bad luck and get nailed like Ali who got knocked on his ass by cooper that shouldn't have happned either.

the difference was that ali got up and went on to stop cooper whereas........ well you know the rest.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 23 Nov 2006, 17:26

The Great John L wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Lewis in my view should be classed between 25 - 30, it is out of the question to include him in the top 10 or even top 15, name one great HW who has been knocked out by not only one journeyman but two and both by a single punch? - Thats the reason why he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentance as real great Heavyweights.

Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Dempsey - These are what you call great heavyweights.
Well how can you rate a fighter an ATG who was completely out boxed in his prime by a guy with a mediocre 20-5-2 record and only 7 KOs?? Or a guy who was KOd in one round(!!) by an old LHW with a record of 38-27-17, and out boxed several times by an obese club fighter who was only 5’9” tall??

You can try to find reasons for justifying any rankings you want, but putting Lewis in the 25-30 range is pretty indefensible. Do you still rank Coetzee and Ruddock higher than Lewis?

At the very least Dempsey did revolutionise boxing with his agressive/exciting style and from what I recall Dempsy may have been stopped in his career but never by a single blow.

For your second question in accomplishments Lewis is higher than either Coetzee and Ruddock, but head to head Coetzee is ahead as unlike Lennox Gerrie could actually TAKE a punch! If Lewis wanted to brawl with Coetzee he may well be on the floor with the ref counting to 100...if he wanted to box him Coetzee would match him jab for jab. Either way this wont be an easy fight.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 23 Nov 2006, 22:16

RazorKO wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Lewis in my view should be classed between 25 - 30, it is out of the question to include him in the top 10 or even top 15, name one great HW who has been knocked out by not only one journeyman but two and both by a single punch? - Thats the reason why he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentance as real great Heavyweights.

Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Dempsey - These are what you call great heavyweights.
Well how can you rate a fighter an ATG who was completely out boxed in his prime by a guy with a mediocre 20-5-2 record and only 7 KOs?? Or a guy who was KOd in one round(!!) by an old LHW with a record of 38-27-17, and out boxed several times by an obese club fighter who was only 5’9” tall??

You can try to find reasons for justifying any rankings you want, but putting Lewis in the 25-30 range is pretty indefensible. Do you still rank Coetzee and Ruddock higher than Lewis?

At the very least Dempsey did revolutionise boxing with his agressive/exciting style and from what I recall Dempsy may have been stopped in his career but never by a single blow.

For your second question in accomplishments Lewis is higher than either Coetzee and Ruddock, but head to head Coetzee is ahead as unlike Lennox Gerrie could actually TAKE a punch! If Lewis wanted to brawl with Coetzee he may well be on the floor with the ref counting to 100...if he wanted to box him Coetzee would match him jab for jab. Either way this wont be an easy fight.

Dempsey fought much poorer competition than Lennox.

As for the other bit -- prime Lennox vs. prime Coetzee KO 2 in an uncompetitive fight. There was nothing Coetzee could do that Lennox couldn't do better.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 23 Nov 2006, 22:29

The way the poll is going thus far I can't find a trace of Lennox not getting enough respect.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 23 Nov 2006, 23:46

Lewis somewhere around 15 - 17, definitely not top ten...beat if he can beat Liston, Foreman, Dempsey & Frazier...I'll move him up to #5

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 23 Nov 2006, 23:50

J-C wrote: Biggest problem I have with making a heavyweight list is where to rank Jefferies and Langford.

Ahead of Lewis

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 24 Nov 2006, 08:37

Erm.. why did someone vote him outside the top 30?

That was just spite by a Holyfield lover!

Even his worst critics put him in the top 20!

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 24 Nov 2006, 13:49

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:Erm.. why did someone vote him outside the top 30?

That was just spite by a Holyfield lover!
Even his worst critics put him in the top 20!

Yes, almost as crazy as those 3 inbreds who put him as top 5.