Top Ten Brits Ever?

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 15 Jan 2007, 13:35

I followed a ling in another thread to HBO.com's boxing section and I was looking at the different articles and I saw this one.

I dont know if these are ordered but they are the 10 listed
http://www.hbo.com/boxing/events/2007/0 ... story.html
When you look at them 9 seems to make sense, but there is one that make you lift an eyebrow wondering how he got there.
So are these the top 10 Brits all time?

JC · Post by JC » 15 Jan 2007, 13:52

I might have John Coneth in ahead of Naseem Hamed. Also as old timers seem to be fair game for the list you could argue for places for Jem Driscoll or Jackie Berg, possibly in place of Owen Moran.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 15 Jan 2007, 14:04

I don't know how Naseem Hamed gets in there, but it's all about opinions & life would be dull if we all agreed!!!!

Naseem Hamed was a tremendous fighter, blessed with a combination of athleticism & power that I have never seen, but he failed the first time he came up against a truly competent fighter & never showed any inclination to try & avenge that loss & that marks him down IMO

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 15 Jan 2007, 14:11

The kissue with Hamed is that we was too protected for a large part of his career, and when he went for a world class opponent whose quality was beyond doubt he lost.

So it's hard to assess how good Hamed really was.

lamphey · Post by **lamphey** » 15 Jan 2007, 14:20

J-C wrote:I might have John Coneth in ahead of Naseem Hamed. Also as old timers seem to be fair game for the list you could argue for places for Jem Driscoll or Jackie Berg, possibly in place of Owen Moran.

Driscoll is in the list.

JC · Post by JC » 15 Jan 2007, 14:23

lamphey wrote:
J-C wrote:I might have John Coneth in ahead of Naseem Hamed. Also as old timers seem to be fair game for the list you could argue for places for Jem Driscoll or Jackie Berg, possibly in place of Owen Moran.
Driscoll is in the list.

Oops!

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 15 Jan 2007, 14:37

Well its HBO's website and if I am not mistaken Hamed was an HBO fighter, so thats probably how he found his way onto the list.

I am just glad everybody has identified the same odd man out as I did

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 16 Jan 2007, 05:22

This list is pretty near right, the only omission is Jack "Kid" Berg, I'd probably include him over Randy Turpin. Jimmy Wilde is far and away the number 1 P4P British fighter, and I'd rank Jim Driscoll at number 2 and Fitz at 3

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 16 Jan 2007, 08:04

I'd have Berg instead of Hamed. I'd probably find a place for Howard Winstone - certainly over Hamed, and maybe at the expense of Moran.

Len Harvey, Jock McAvoy, Dave Charnley, Benny Lynch, and a few more would be a decent "subs bench"....

J

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 16 Jan 2007, 08:18

I forgot about Benny Lynch, I dont know how. He'd be number 2 behind Jimmy Wilde for me. My top 10 is: -
1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Benny Lynch
3. Jim Driscoll
4. Bob Fitz
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Ted Kid Lewis
7. Freddie Welsh
8. Ken Buchanan
9. Jack Kid Berg
10. Naseem Hamed

Honourable mentions to John Conteh, Nigel Benn, Randolph Turpin, Len Harvey, Jock McAvoy, Howard Winstone, Owen Moran, Barry McGuigan, Ricky Hatton, Joe Calzaghe etc

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 16 Jan 2007, 12:16

not listing McAvoy is completely 'ill-informed'...

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum ... #post52998

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 16 Jan 2007, 15:45

If we're talking anyone born in England, Wales, Scotland and the North of Ireland. Then here's me list.

1.Bob Fitzsimmons
2.Jimmy Wilde
3.Jimmy McLarnin
4.Jim Driscoll
5.Freddie Welsh
6.Jackie "Kid" Berg
7.Ted "Kid" Lewis
8.Ken Buchanan
9.Benny Lynch
10.Owen Moran

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 16 Jan 2007, 16:25

No Lennox Lewis Seamus?

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 16 Jan 2007, 17:20

No, I'm sure Lennox Lewis would make my top 20 though. Competition is just too good.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 16 Jan 2007, 19:29

Seamus wrote:If we're talking anyone born in England, Wales, Scotland and the North of Ireland. Then here's me list.

1.Bob Fitzsimmons
2.Jimmy Wilde
3.Jimmy McLarnin
4.Jim Driscoll
5.Freddie Welsh
6.Jackie "Kid" Berg
7.Ted "Kid" Lewis
8.Ken Buchanan
9.Benny Lynch
10.Owen Moran

Nice list. True greats.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 17 Jan 2007, 07:15

Seamus wrote:If we're talking anyone born in England, Wales, Scotland and the North of Ireland. Then here's me list.

1.Bob Fitzsimmons
2.Jimmy Wilde
3.Jimmy McLarnin
4.Jim Driscoll
5.Freddie Welsh
6.Jackie "Kid" Berg
7.Ted "Kid" Lewis
8.Ken Buchanan
9.Benny Lynch
10.Owen Moran

That's an excellent list & difficult to argue against.

jsmoke · Post by **jsmoke** » 19 Jan 2007, 03:50

Syntax Error wrote:I don't know how Naseem Hamed gets in there, but it's all about opinions & life would be dull if we all agreed!!!!

Naseem Hamed was a tremendous fighter, blessed with a combination of athleticism & power that I have never seen, but he failed the first time he came up against a truly competent fighter & never showed any inclination to try & avenge that loss & that marks him down IMO

he did beat kevin kelley...don' know if that counts as world class...but it does in my book

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Jan 2007, 15:48

Syntax Error wrote:
Seamus wrote:If we're talking anyone born in England, Wales, Scotland and the North of Ireland. Then here's me list.

1.Bob Fitzsimmons
2.Jimmy Wilde
3.Jimmy McLarnin
4.Jim Driscoll
5.Freddie Welsh
6.Jackie "Kid" Berg
7.Ted "Kid" Lewis
8.Ken Buchanan
9.Benny Lynch
10.Owen Moran
That's an excellent list & difficult to argue against.

Except that Welsh beat Driscoll (by DQ) and had him down. I'd swap these two.

If non-UK born were to be admitted Lennox Lewis would have to be top 3 on that list, of course.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 19 Jan 2007, 17:43

lewis was born in london and lived there until he was 13 / 14.
i`d have him top of the list.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 19 Jan 2007, 18:24

headhunter wrote:lewis was born in london and lived there until he was 13 / 14.
i`d have him top of the list.

No kidding? Just goes to show there's one born every minute.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Jan 2007, 18:27

headhunter wrote:lewis was born in london and lived there until he was 13 / 14.
i`d have him top of the list.

In this case he should definitely be in the top 3. Between Wilde, Fitzsimmons and Lewis it's not an obvious pick by any means, however.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 19 Jan 2007, 18:41

pundit wrote:
headhunter wrote:lewis was born in london and lived there until he was 13 / 14.
i`d have him top of the list.
In this case he should definitely be in the top 3. Between Wilde, Fitzsimmons and Lewis it's not an obvious pick by any means, however.

i think lewis was the best heavyweight of his generation where as i dont think fitzsimmons could claim that.
wilde is top class, boasts a astonishing ko percentage, was the best flyweight of his day and often fought heavier fighters but for me the heavyweight championship of the world just carries more kudos.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Jan 2007, 19:00

headhunter wrote:
pundit wrote:
headhunter wrote:lewis was born in london and lived there until he was 13 / 14.
i`d have him top of the list.
In this case he should definitely be in the top 3. Between Wilde, Fitzsimmons and Lewis it's not an obvious pick by any means, however.
i think lewis was the best heavyweight of his generation where as i dont think fitzsimmons could claim that.

Fine, but besides being HW champ Fitzsimmons was also the world's best middleweight in the early 1890s and world champ, plus he won the world's light-heavyweigt title at the age of 40. This is hard to beat.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 19 Jan 2007, 19:12

pundit wrote:
headhunter wrote:
pundit wrote: In this case he should definitely be in the top 3. Between Wilde, Fitzsimmons and Lewis it's not an obvious pick by any means, however.
i think lewis was the best heavyweight of his generation where as i dont think fitzsimmons could claim that.
Fine, but besides being HW champ Fitzsimmons was also the world's best middleweight in the early 1890s and world champ, plus he won the world's light-heavyweigt title at the age of 40. This is hard to beat.

the light heavyweight championship was in its infancy.
he won the heavyweight title but lost it in his first defence.
fitzsimmons is a great but to me lewis was the man at heavyweight.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 19 Jan 2007, 19:29

Lennox Lewis above Jimmy McLarnin ??? That's beyond believable. I defend LL, but not this time. McLarnin defeated a who's who of the era and was worldclass from Flyweight to WW. He also defeated more Hall of Famers than Sugar Ray Robinson and Harry Greb, and he did it in alot fewer fights.