Is Manfredo a top 10 super midde?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Jan 2007, 04:19

I just checked out BM's rankings and they have Manfredo # 8. Ring have him in at #10. World Boxing Media don't have him in their top 12.

I want to check with everyone, do you feel Manfredo is top 10? If so, does that make him an acceptable opponent for Calzaghe while he waits for Hopkins or Taylor?

I don't know much about him apart from his Contender stuff, and eye opening KO wins over Spina and Pemberton.

Super middle seems a bit top heavy (Calzaghe, Kessler, Mundine, Beyer, Lacy, Andrade, Bute). Is there a place in the lower rungs of the top 10 for Manfredo?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jan 2007, 04:32

Very close, but not quite in it for me. He was in the top ten, but I think the closeness of the Tsypko vs Lacy result means he just slips out of it.

I would have no qualms in him being ranked ahead of Tateosvyan, Tsypko or Froch from my list.

1) Calzaghe
2) Kessler
3) Mundine
4) Beyer
5) Lacy
6) Bute
7) Andrade
8) Tateosvyan
9) Tsypko
10)Froch
11) Manfredo

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 16 Jan 2007, 04:36

According to the poll on the current scene done by Pundit, he doesn't quite make the top 10

1 Joe Calzaghe
2 Mikkel Kessler
3 Anthony Mundine
4 Jeff Lacy
5 Librado Andrade
6 Lucian Bute
7 Dennis Inkin
8 Markus Beyer
9 Carl Froch
10 Allan Green
11 Peter Manfredo
12 Sam Soliman
13 Vitali Tsypko
14 Sakio Bika
15 David Gogyia

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 16 Jan 2007, 04:37

I'd back to Glen Catley to batter him....now.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jan 2007, 04:38

Yeah, strong case for Inkin and Green to be in the top ten also.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Jan 2007, 05:00

Green's overrated.

Just because he acts the bad arse, then puts in vulnerable performances, he gets rated highly. It pays to have a big gob.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 16 Jan 2007, 05:36

He might just be one of the top 10 super middles on "The Contender"

shot · Post by **shot** » 16 Jan 2007, 06:11

It is a shame nobody asked this question before the Calzaghe fight was on. I think the outcome would be quite different and Mafredo would not even make top 20.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jan 2007, 06:15

shot wrote:It is a shame nobody asked this question before the Calzaghe fight was on. I think the outcome would be quite different and Mafredo would not even make top 20.

I actually have Manfredo lower now than before the fight was confirmed - this is on the basis of the Tsypko performance vs Lacy.

He's not great, but he hasn't done alot wrong since the contender - has a couple of decent, if not inspiring, names on his resume and is just about acceptable as an opponent for a world title. Acceptable for a champion who craves greatness and is pushing 35 - well not so sure about that.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 16 Jan 2007, 07:43

Depends. Do you mean in reality or in temrs of hype?

If in reality then no - here is his ranking when the hype is cut away. Look at guy like Markussen (no. 39) and compare what they have done and who they have met.

1. Joe Calzaghe / Mikkel Kessler
3. Librado Andrade
4. Anthony Mundine
5. Robert Stieglitz
6. Lucien Bute
7. Jeff Lacy
8. Allan Green
9. Markus Beyer
10. Denis Inkin
11. Carl Froch
12. Jean Paul Mendy
13. Danny Green
14. Mario Veit
15. Jürgen Brähmer
16. Vitali Tsypko
17. Anthony Hanshaw
18. David Gogiya
19. Mger Mkrtchian
20. Jackson Chanet
21. Victor Oganov
22. Alejandro Berrio
23. Brian Magee
24. Gysmyl Perdomo
25. Karoly Balzsay
26. Sakio Bika
27. Jean Pascal
28. Otis Grant
29. Yusaf Mack
30. Joszef Nagy
31. Malik Dziarra
32. Lolenga Mock
33. Peter Manfredo
34. Sergej Tatevosyan
35. Roman Skhrarupa
36. Henry Buchanan
37. Dimitri Sartison
38. Rudy Markussen
39. Jaidon Codrington
40. Rubin Williams
41. William Joppy
42. Peter Ngateri
43. Willie Stewart
44. Danilo Häussler
45. Martin Bruer
46. Lajuan Simon
47. Eric Teymour
48. Stjepan Bosiz
49. Peter Mashamaite
50. Ricardo Cortes

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 16 Jan 2007, 08:02

how does Allan Green get so highly rated in your list? Or Stieglitz for that matter?

manfredo hasn't done enough to be top 10 yet but wins against Spina and old man Pemberton are better than a lot of fighters you've ranked ahead of him.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 16 Jan 2007, 08:23

Lenny Albert wrote:how does Allan Green get so highly rated in your list? Or Stieglitz for that matter?

manfredo hasn't done enough to be top 10 yet but wins against Spina and old man Pemberton are better than a lot of fighters you've ranked ahead of him.

Both are undefeated and have a solid SMW background. Neither has only a couple fights at the weight and several defeats to rather poor/average guys like Mora and even worse.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 16 Jan 2007, 08:44

Manfredo deserves higher than 33 on your list, he did beat Pemberton who had a solid rating.

Who exactly has Otis Grant beaten to be that high on your list too? Any solid wins he has are at Light Heavyweight. He hasn't fought since Andrade beat him too.

Andrades record doesn't say he's that much of a top Super Middle either.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 16 Jan 2007, 09:43

The official Boxrec forum member ratings have Manfredo at #11.

pundit wrote:23 posters voted.

Championship votes:

Vacant 15/23 = 65 percent
Calzaghe 7/23 = 30 percent
Kessler 1/23 = 4 percent

Ratings and points:

1 Joe Calzaghe 339
2 Mikkel Kessler 328
3 Anthony Mundine 270
4 Jeff Lacy 251
5 Librado Andrade 218

6 Lucian Bute 206
7 Dennis Inkin 178
8 Markus Beyer 169
9 Carl Froch 158
10 Allan Green 104

11 Peter Manfredo 96
12 Sam Soliman 92
13 Vitali Tsypko 74
14 Sakio Bika 62
15 David Gogyia 62

16 Robert Stieglitz 51
17 Alejandro Berrio 21
18 Mario Veit 18
18 Anthony Hanshaw 18
20 Sergey Tatevosyan 14

21 Jean-Baptiste Mendy 11
22 Scott Dann 9
23 Jurgen Brahmer 8
24 Danilo Haussler 1
24 Rudy Markussen 1

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 16 Jan 2007, 10:21

Taki... wrote:The official Boxrec forum member ratings have Manfredo at #11.

pundit wrote:23 posters voted.

Championship votes:

Vacant 15/23 = 65 percent
Calzaghe 7/23 = 30 percent
Kessler 1/23 = 4 percent

Ratings and points:

1 Joe Calzaghe 339
2 Mikkel Kessler 328
3 Anthony Mundine 270
4 Jeff Lacy 251
5 Librado Andrade 218

6 Lucian Bute 206
7 Dennis Inkin 178
8 Markus Beyer 169
9 Carl Froch 158
10 Allan Green 104

11 Peter Manfredo 96
12 Sam Soliman 92
13 Vitali Tsypko 74
14 Sakio Bika 62
15 David Gogyia 62

16 Robert Stieglitz 51
17 Alejandro Berrio 21
18 Mario Veit 18
18 Anthony Hanshaw 18
20 Sergey Tatevosyan 14

21 Jean-Baptiste Mendy 11
22 Scott Dann 9
23 Jurgen Brahmer 8
24 Danilo Haussler 1
24 Rudy Markussen 1

LOL - the majority in here are americans and english - so that is hardly a surprise. The majority thought Bush would be a good president. The majority thought the earth was flat at one stage.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jan 2007, 10:38

Sorry Deram, but some of those names don't deserve to be ahead of Manfredo.

Brian Magee, Lolenga Mock, Otis Grant (retired), Mario Veit, Jurgen Brahmer, Alejandro Berrio, Danny Green (Light Heavyweight), Mendy& Hanshaw (good prospects not done enough), Mkritchkian, Bika (who has he beaten!), Josef Nagy (same applies).

There are some then, that I haven't seen fight so cannot judge (likes of Oganov, Perdoma, Dziarra).

I think Tatevosyan's ranking is a bit of a disservice - he's beaten the current EBU champion and a long standing EBU (who never lost the belt) titlist in the recent past. He should be ahead of most of the Europeans.

Think Haussler's ranking is also a tad low. He is a bit better than 44. I think he should be ranked a fair amount higher - he did beat Sarnavia. I don't think he should be below Veit for example.

Where is Sarnavia and Robin Reid? Sarnavia is a former WBC champion who narrowly lost to a long time EBU champion and was beating Beyer in the rematch till he got clouted. He is also 4-0 in the last 12 months.

Robin Reid has expressed a desire to return. Even though he is no longer a world title force. I still think he belongs in the top 50. He still should be ranked ahead of Magee.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 16 Jan 2007, 11:26

I think #11 for Manfredo is quite defendable. If Pemberton was one of #4 Lacy's best wins, it's hard to argue why his destruction by Manfredo should not count at all. Spina is not top 30, but they way Manfredo carved out this win was quite convincing. The other folks ranked around him -- Froch, Green, Bika, Tsypko, Gogyia, Stieglitz, Berrio -- have not done signficantly more (Soliman is an exception -- he ended up so low because many people still rank him at 160).

More generally, 168 -- like any other division -- does not have more than a handful of really good fighters. Calzaghe and Kessler are the top dogs, then comes a bunch of reasonalby credible challengers -- say, from Mundine through Inkin or Beyer -- and then the gray area of marginal contenders starts. Manfredo belongs to those.

P

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 16 Jan 2007, 11:28

stujones wrote:Sorry Deram, but some of those names don't deserve to be ahead of Manfredo.

Brian Magee, Lolenga Mock, Otis Grant (retired), Mario Veit, Jurgen Brahmer, Alejandro Berrio, Danny Green (Light Heavyweight), Mendy& Hanshaw (good prospects not done enough), Mkritchkian, Bika (who has he beaten!), Josef Nagy (same applies).

There are some then, that I haven't seen fight so cannot judge (likes of Oganov, Perdoma, Dziarra).

I think Tatevosyan's ranking is a bit of a disservice - he's beaten the current EBU champion and a long standing EBU (who never lost the belt) titlist in the recent past. He should be ahead of most of the Europeans.

Think Haussler's ranking is also a tad low. He is a bit better than 44. I think he should be ranked a fair amount higher - he did beat Sarnavia. I don't think he should be below Veit for example.

Where is Sarnavia and Robin Reid? Sarnavia is a former WBC champion who narrowly lost to a long time EBU champion and was beating Beyer in the rematch till he got clouted. He is also 4-0 in the last 12 months.

Robin Reid has expressed a desire to return. Even though he is no longer a world title force. I still think he belongs in the top 50. He still should be ranked ahead of Magee.

If we take those 12 fighters out then Manfredo is still not in top 20. and many people would disagree with taking them out. Like a Braehmer - he beat Hatton and many others as amateur. He is considered the biggest German talent in decades. He has only lost once and to a guy that is clearly better than a Mora and muuuuch better than a Gonzales (who?).

Or Mendy - undefeated and all he needs is a break. A good solid fighter who unlike Manfredo would not loose to guys like Gonzales. Also Mendy is a experienced SMW and not a novice at the weight like Manfredo.

Severa lof hte others of the 12 can make similar claims and I do not doubt that a Bika and a Veit would beat Manfredo h2h.

Pemberton would loose easily to all on that top 5 0list. Spina would have a limited chance against the bottom 10 or so. And those are the best Manfredo has beaten? And he has lost to Gonzales? Nah - top 40 is being generous and I am sure that in let's say 5 years noone will doiubt that. Then we will see who he has beaten and who he last lost to. He is going nowhere fast and will not amount to absolutely anything.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 16 Jan 2007, 11:38

Manfredo is #13 with the IBO (provisional #19)

1 1 JOE CALZAGHE GB 34 WBO W W W W W W 10-06 42-0 31 0 12 21-0
2 4 MIKKEL KESSLER DEN 27 WBC & WBA W W W W W W 10-06 38-0 28 0 12 10-0
3 3 JEFF LACY USA 29 former ibo W W W W L W 12-06 22-1 17 0 12 10-1-0-1
4 5 ANTHONY MUNDINE AUS 31 former wba W L W W W W 11-06 27-3 21 1 12 5-3
5 2 MARKUS BEYER GER 35 former wbc W W W W D L 10-06 34-3-1 15 2 12 9-3-1
6 8 LIBRADO ANDRADE USA 27 NABA W W W W W W 9-06 24-0 18 0 12 4-0
7 25 DENNIS INKIN RUS 28 WBC international W W W W W W 10-06 29-0 22 0 8 3-0
8 9 CARL FROCH GB 29 GB & COMMON W W W W W W 11-06 20-0 16 0 12 5-0
9 11 DANILO HAUSSLER GER 31 former european L W W W W W 12-06 29-3 7 0 12 8-3
10 10 LUCIEN BUTE ROM 26 WBC cam & NABF W W W W W W 9-06 18-0 15 0 12 3-0
11 12 CRISTIAN SANAVIA ITA 34 former wbc W L W W W W 12-06 39-3 12 2 12 3-3
12 6 MARIO VEIT GER 33 W L W W W L 10-06 48-3 23 3 12 4-3
13 19 PETER MANFREDO

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 16 Jan 2007, 11:40

Deram wrote:
Taki... wrote:The official Boxrec forum member ratings have Manfredo at #11.

pundit wrote:23 posters voted.

Championship votes:

Vacant 15/23 = 65 percent
Calzaghe 7/23 = 30 percent
Kessler 1/23 = 4 percent

Ratings and points:

1 Joe Calzaghe 339
2 Mikkel Kessler 328
3 Anthony Mundine 270
4 Jeff Lacy 251
5 Librado Andrade 218

6 Lucian Bute 206
7 Dennis Inkin 178
8 Markus Beyer 169
9 Carl Froch 158
10 Allan Green 104

11 Peter Manfredo 96
12 Sam Soliman 92
13 Vitali Tsypko 74
14 Sakio Bika 62
15 David Gogyia 62

16 Robert Stieglitz 51
17 Alejandro Berrio 21
18 Mario Veit 18
18 Anthony Hanshaw 18
20 Sergey Tatevosyan 14

21 Jean-Baptiste Mendy 11
22 Scott Dann 9
23 Jurgen Brahmer 8
24 Danilo Haussler 1
24 Rudy Markussen 1
LOL - the majority in here are americans and english - so that is hardly a surprise. The majority thought Bush would be a good president. The majority thought the earth was flat at one stage.

Actually the majority thought Gore would be a better president... luckily the swing was in Florida and Jed put in the fix.
I guess you can't beat a Dane for being impartial when it comes to the SM division, eh?

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 16 Jan 2007, 11:54

Taki... wrote:
Deram wrote:
Taki... wrote:The official Boxrec forum member ratings have Manfredo at #11.

LOL - the majority in here are americans and english - so that is hardly a surprise. The majority thought Bush would be a good president. The majority thought the earth was flat at one stage.
Actually the majority thought Gore would be a better president... luckily the swing was in Florida and Jed put in the fix.
I guess you can't beat a Dane for being impartial when it comes to the SM division, eh?

And where are you from my impartial friend?

eeler1 · Post by **eeler1** » 16 Jan 2007, 14:25

Manfredo should be anywhere from 7 or 8 to 15+. I think the group got it about right at 11. At least Manfredo beat a guy that had previously been top 10 and title contender (Pemberton), and earlier on a former champ (Randall). Of course, both were completely shot at the time, but still.

To be top 10, seems like a guy should have to beat someone in the top 10. But, these guys don't seem to want to fight each other, just get the rank and hope for a title bid. So, I guage by percieved talent and potential, not necessarily accomplishment. Hence, I've got A. Green ahead of Manfredo, even though Green's never beaten anyone higher ranked or former top 10.

The wild card for Manfredo is training with Roach, he seems to be able to add talent to a fighter.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 16 Jan 2007, 14:32

viciousmaussa wrote:Green's overrated.

Just because he acts the bad arse, then puts in vulnerable performances, he gets rated highly. It pays to have a big gob.

Seen him once against Donny McLean, got dropped HEAVILY against a none entity but rallied back to win in a thoroughly exciting scrap. Still you are right though, not going to hit the big time IMO.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 16 Jan 2007, 14:34

Manfredo is poor, Calzaghe will walk through him. The only reason he has been handpicked by Calzaghe's team is because he is a name in America after being in Big Brother or that other reality show

He is a glossed up opponent to help ease Calzaghe's transition to the States after his none showing against Bika.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jan 2007, 21:45

Deram wrote: If we take those 12 fighters out then Manfredo is still not in top 20. and many people would disagree with taking them out. Like a Braehmer - he beat Hatton and many others as amateur. He is considered the biggest German talent in decades. He has only lost once and to a guy that is clearly better than a Mora and muuuuch better than a Gonzales (who?).

Or Mendy - undefeated and all he needs is a break. A good solid fighter who unlike Manfredo would not loose to guys like Gonzales. Also Mendy is a experienced SMW and not a novice at the weight like Manfredo.

Severa lof hte others of the 12 can make similar claims and I do not doubt that a Bika and a Veit would beat Manfredo h2h.

Pemberton would loose easily to all on that top 5 0list. Spina would have a limited chance against the bottom 10 or so. And those are the best Manfredo has beaten? And he has lost to Gonzales? Nah - top 40 is being generous and I am sure that in let's say 5 years noone will doiubt that. Then we will see who he has beaten and who he last lost to. He is going nowhere fast and will not amount to absolutely anything.

By Gonzalez - you mean Alfonso Gomez? In a five round contest at Light Middleweight. How can that be a judge of his performance? I take it you haven't seen the fight (or the highlights) otherwise you would have known who Gomez was.

Manfredo says he feels fresh and better at Super Middleweight and his performances SINCE the contender at the new weight - indicate that also. He beat Mora in the rematch (in most peoples eyes) and Mora hasn't done too badly since his two fights with Manfredo.

Jurgen Brahmer WAS considered a fine German prospect - note the word WAS. I still rate him, but not because he beat Ricky Hatton as an amateur. That was a decade ago at a completely different word. Peter Manfredo WAS considered a world class prospect (featured in Boxing Monthly long before the contender). He turned out to be overated - so did Brahmer big style and Brahmer hasn't beaten a top ten fighter - unlike Manfredo.

When Bika has a win that is as good as even a faded Scott Pemberton then maybe he can be judged fairly. Veit's best win came against an equally shot Charles Brewer and it wasn't as destructive as Manfredo.

Yes, Mendy is an experienced Super Middle who I rate - but he hasn't done anything yet hasn't a win in the top ten. Pemberton at the time was a top ten fighter.