Partly O/T - Best and worst 'pundits'

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 14 Feb 2007, 08:55

We've all got our favourite pundits - you know, the men who have been there and done that and now make a living from being co-commentators or analysts.

I know to some people he's like nails down a blackboard but for me, Jim Watt is great. Sometimes he might call it wrong (everyone's human) but it's a rarity.

I like Johnny Nelson too - knowledgeable, articulate and enthusiastic.

I've never quite hit it off with Larry Merchant though.

To widen it to other sports, David Lloyd in the cricket is a proper ledge, as is Beefy but Nasser Hussain usually gets on my nerves as he absolutely loves to stick the boot in.

Rodney Marsh used to be the most despicable but did us all a favour with his ridiculous tsunami/toon army gag.

The worst at the moment has to be Paul Merson - the drug and drink addled tit can barely string together a coherent sentence and is so judgemental it's unbelievable. Lawro is a bastard as well.

Your views?

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:02

Sid Wadell is genius, for obvious reasons. Thought his his dig at bobby george during the barney taylor final was a bit harsh, said something like "bobby here to watch proper darts" followed by a dig at george himself. I understand the rivalries between the two darts factions, but it was a bit uncharacteristic.

Nelson has been there and done it, prefer him in the studio to him doing 'play by play' though, find his analysis very good.

Mcguigan is another I quite enjoy, shame he's surrounded by eijits like Jim Rosenthal over at ITV though.

Bunce, for all his faults I love the enthusiasm and passion he brings to the table.

Cant take to Adam Smith, at all. Not sure about Ed Robinson either, for some reason he reminds me of Adam Smith...

I'm going to give Dave Clarke the benefit of the doubt for now, but he clearly knows very little of the sport, and has a smug face.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:07

Ah, I was meaning former pros at the sport who have since 'turned over' rather than the likes of Buncey (who is always good value) and the best of them all in commentating terms - Waddell.

So McGuigan is in, Rosenthal out!

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:10

Not a fan or Nicky Piper of Adam Smith but Jim Watt and Ian Darke are a great team. Also think Rawlings isn't as bad as he is made out

there was a list of the best and worst football pundits which said the people who like Paul Merson are the same people who laugh at the disabled

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:29

one of my fave pundit moments was Hagler doing the first Lewis-Rahman fight. He basically predicted that the end was coming...

I think Jim Watt was good with Reg back in the 1980s. he was generally a good caller of fights and usually gave good insight into the momentum of the fight.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:35

As far as ex-fighters, best:

Jim Watt- good announcer, good insight, always seems to know whats going on

Gary Mason- wisecracks, knowledgeable, speaks the truth

Johnny Nelson, Nicky Piper- good in studio, know their stuff

Worst:
Glenn McCrory- inarticulate, has to be pressed for insight, just agrees with what hes told

Barry McGuigan- no credibility, just a PR shill for whoevers paying him

Frank Bruno, Nigel Benn- basically unusable on air, no opinions, zero interest in boxing after their retirement

Mediocre-
Derek Williams, Julius Francis et all- bit rough round the edges but some good insight sometimes

Basically no coincidence that the best guys seem to be the guys who are actually boxing fans and love the game, not the cynical bitter guys who resent boxing continuing after they hung their gloves up.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:41

Merson got crucified by one caller on "you're on sky sports" after saying man united didnt have avery good kids team.

A caller asked if Merson had taken into consideration the loanees United currently had out, such as (example) "Rossi, Foster, Bardsley, Pique, Campbell, Gibson, Eckersley, Evans, Gray, Rose and shawcross" ...... there wa s apause during which Merson did a little laugh then said "well I odnt really know naything about the united reserve or youff players" the caller said "well why you making statements that the united youth team aint very good when you know nothing about them?"

Other eijits include Phil Thompson.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:49

http://www.football365.com/story/0,1703 ... 66,00.html

Lennox Lewis sounds awful on HBO, actually makes Foreman and Jones Jnr sound good

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:51

overhand_right wrote:As far as ex-fighters, best:

Jim Watt- good announcer, good insight, always seems to know whats going on

Gary Mason- wisecracks, knowledgeable, speaks the truth

Johnny Nelson, Nicky Piper- good in studio, know their stuff

Worst:
Glenn McCrory- inarticulate, has to be pressed for insight, just agrees with what hes told

Barry McGuigan- no credibility, just a PR shill for whoevers paying him

Frank Bruno, Nigel Benn- basically unusable on air, no opinions, zero interest in boxing after their retirement

Mediocre-
Derek Williams, Julius Francis et all- bit rough round the edges but some good insight sometimes

Basically no coincidence that the best guys seem to be the guys who are actually boxing fans and love the game, not the cynical bitter guys who resent boxing continuing after they hung their gloves up.

Your a bit harsh on mcguigan i think he asks a lot of questions and makes statements other seem to dance around. To say he isnt credible is wide of the mark also.

salaco · Post by **salaco** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:54

Lenny Albert wrote:http://www.football365.com/story/0,1703 ... 66,00.html

Lennox Lewis sounds awful on HBO, actually makes Foreman and Jones Jnr sound good

"Definitely"

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:56

achybreaky wrote:
Your a bit harsh on mcguigan i think he asks a lot of questions and makes statements other seem to dance around. To say he isnt credible is wide of the mark also.

I dont think so.

The guy is constantly selling us Amir Khan and when he makes remarks like "the guy has 3 kayos so can obviously bang" and "the kid has a record of 9-1 so can obviously fight" he loses all credibility with me. He knows much better than he lets on.

Yet he absolutely loved kicking Audley Harrison when he was down & tore him to shreds. Bet he wont do the same when Khan gets chinned.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 14 Feb 2007, 10:00

overhand_right wrote:
achybreaky wrote:
Your a bit harsh on mcguigan i think he asks a lot of questions and makes statements other seem to dance around. To say he isnt credible is wide of the mark also.
I dont think so.

The guy is constantly selling us Amir Khan and when he makes remarks like "the guy has 3 kayos so can obviously bang" and "the kid has a record of 9-1 so can obviously fight" he loses all credibility with me. He knows much better than he lets on.

Yet he absolutely loved kicking Audley Harrison when he was down & tore him to shreds. Bet he wont do the same when Khan gets chinned.

I think he loved kicking audley because he knows as well as any of us that audley is a useless big arrogant chancer. He does fawn over khan a bit granted but how many other boxing people critisize the lad?

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 14 Feb 2007, 10:08

NOBODY, outside of internet forums from what i can see.

TV stations, tabloids, clever people middle class papers, and BBC website, they all write Khan puff pieces.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 14 Feb 2007, 10:58

I like Johnny Nelson - always articulate and knowledgeble

Nicky Piper - Not convinced but he is ok, never let's Nelson get a word in or finish a sentence.

Glenn McCrory - Bit of a sheep, easily led by Piper but generally does a decent job.

Jim Watt - Honest and knows his stuff, can grate on about a point a bit but is razor sharp on his observations.

Barry McGuigan - Tend to agree with Overhand here, can't help but feeling he has "sold out" a bit. Although he can't be expected to bite the hand that feeds he does exempt people from criticism if they are signed up to the boss.

Duke McKenzie - Enjoyed his work at first on SKY but since joining ITV he has annoyed the hell out of me. Misleads viewers a little on fights none more so than the "he's out on his feet" type of stuff. But give him the beneift of the doubt.

Richie Woodhall - Good analyser, ITV should use him.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 14 Feb 2007, 11:01

overhand_right wrote:NOBODY, outside of internet forums from what i can see.

TV stations, tabloids, clever people middle class papers, and BBC website, they all write Khan puff pieces.

You're right there mate. And how many have come out and said Peter Manfredo and Bobby Gunn are shite opponents?

BBN as far as I know.

Back to the topic, Gary Mason was quality. They should bring the big man back. I've said it before but it was top notch how he said Douglas was shot about ten seconds into his Holyfield match. Easy to see now of course but was bold at the time.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 14 Feb 2007, 11:46

It was also quality how Gary Mason stated that Scott Welch would be the next undisputed hevyweight champion of the world :)

Have to agree with the comments regarding Barry - His pocket is obviously more important than his opinion - I always smile to myself when I think about him saying that Dany Hunt was the English version of ODH.

Jim Watt is ok, but he can labour on the same point for the entire 12 rounds, which I find annoying.

Piper is a bit of a puppet, I didn't like how he talked regarding the Vanzie/Earl fight.

McCrory follows Darke's lead or who ever is sitting next to him at the time.

Woodhall is one of the best, can't really fault him.

McKenzie is quite funny, but pretty vague all the same - He's also got the ITV/SN curse, just the same as Bazza and Rawlings.

Nelson is good, enjoy hearing what he has to say.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 14 Feb 2007, 12:06

Im a little surprised at the critisism of mcguigan considering he is on the same show as duke mckensie who has to be the biggest homer in punditry. Barry may have sold out but you can be sure he would have been promised bigger fights to critique than the Williams vs Skelton vs harrison shite thats being peddled out by itv!

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 14 Feb 2007, 14:20

imo jim watt is the best boxing commentator on this side of the atlantic, he`s very perceptive and picks up on subtle momentum swings or injury`s etc very quickly.
on top of that he is also very very articulate not only somewhat surprisingly for an ex boxer but also for an ex sportsman in general.
usually the ex sportsmen that are really comfortable behind the microphone are the middle england, rugby union, cricket or rowing / university types.
i think the guy from glasgow is the best `poacher turned gamekeeper` on british t.v.
when he first started for sky he did one small hall show as co commentator and the following weekend he was with ian darke in vegas for a high profile fight, i dont think he was brought in specifically to break up the ian darke - glen mccrory axis but i think the suits at sky heard his small hall broadcast and thought this guy is good.
i think richie woodhall handles himself well on telly and is probably best equiped to be the next watt.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Feb 2007, 15:34

Jim Watt is great, the best either side of the atlantic I think.

Teddy Atlas is very good, very passionate.

Barry McGuigan is also very good, I think when he was working with other promoters on Sky he did seem to offer a bit more of constructive CRITICISM than he does now and he labels fighters world class far too easily these days.

Piper and Nelson are fine, as is Glenn - I prefer all in the studio than as the second commentator.

Schwer / Oliver both can be good and maybe should have more TV time.

McKenzie - not the greatest.

caster · Post by **caster** » 14 Feb 2007, 15:48

Dislike Larry Merchant with a passion!

Rich · Post by **Rich** » 14 Feb 2007, 19:46

Larry Merchant comes across as a ponderous, smug, old tw*t!

Oh, hang on............

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 14 Feb 2007, 20:12

Teddy Atlas = The king

Jim Watt = Gives an unbiased view..which like it or not is always welcome.

Johnny Nelson = Another big favourite, maybe more a post fight analyst
Nicky Piper = Excellent, but post fight also.
Gary Mason = Excellent , post fight also
Steve Bunce = Good, but needs to work for the viewer not the TV pay-master...excellent enthusiasm!
Richie Woodhall...good views....but that accent

The Stinkers

John Rawlins....yawn!
Duke McKenzie....no better than your wife trying to explain it!
Barry McGuigan...nuff said!...nice guy but too much SN

The mediocre

Larry Merchant...does the job just cos they think he should!

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 15 Feb 2007, 04:05

McKenzie for worst pundit/commentator. I dislike the over-the-top style of commentary that Duke favours, and his excessive use of tired cliches.

Nicky Piper is another I'm not fond of. He comes across as the most smug man on tv. Plus, his objectivity with regards to both the reffing and judging of British fights has to be questioned.

As for non-fighters: Adam Smith. Does he need to shout all the time? If the fight's dull, he trys to add a little excitement instead of admitting that the fight is awful. If the fight's already entertaining, why do we still need him to try to add that excitement? I guess I prefer the "less is more" school of commentary.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 15 Feb 2007, 05:35

I really like Teddy Atlas - quality.

I can't help liking the Duke despite some of your fair observations!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 15 Feb 2007, 06:21

I like Jim Watt, I know that a lot of people on here have a beef with his commentary, because he can get too involved with siding with a particular fighter, but for me, his voice is THE voice of big time fight announcing. Perhaps it's because of the memories I have of him commentating on the likes of Hagler-Hearns, but I find the timbre of his voice simply suggests big fight excitement, rather like Murray Walkers voice was THE voice of Formula 1.

Garry Lineker is a very slick and professional host, not strictly a pundit of course, who has obviously really worked at his craft since retiring from football, and not just an embarrasing numpty like some former footballers who had a go. I love Ian Wright's enthusiasm and attitude, and occasionally he isn't afraid to call a spade a spade, though of course Ron Atkinson gets rather less credit for precisely the same attitude.

Peter Aliss, there's another classic, transformed the pathos of his 'almost made it but for one putt' career into a commentary style all his own, with his melancholic musings seeming the perfect balm to the slow-as-growing-grass pace of golf. Sort of the Richie Benaud (another god of commentary) of Golf.

Off the top of my head, those are the ones which spring to mind.