Wladimir Klitschko vs Jack Johnson hvywt 15rds

[zuru]

Johnson gets kept on the end of a long heavy jab,unable to get inside,taking LOTS of punishment.The "organ-grinder"shuffle that he used so cleverly against the heavy-footed plodders,has no effect, as Klitschko keeps the piston like jab pumping and begins mixing in long right hands,along with chopping hooks.The fight ends up being a one-sided,righthanded version of the Chris Byrd fight,and a battered Johnson doesn't come out for the 14th rd,Klitschko by a late t.k.o.

[iceman21287]

Johnson would destroy Klitschko. As great as Wlad is offensively, Johnson was even better defensively. He's faster than Wlad. Wlad would have a lot of trouble hitting him. Johnson, who in his prime could go 40 + rounds with ease, would simply wait for Wlad to tire himself out, probably while grinning from ear to ear the entire time. Johnson would then put him away in the later rounds. He might not even break a sweat.

[zuru]

Johnson would destroy Klitschko. As great as Wlad is offensively, Johnson was even better defensively. He's faster than Wlad. Wlad would have a lot of trouble hitting him. Johnson, who in his prime could go 40 + rounds with ease, would simply wait for Wlad to tire himself out, probably while grinning from ear to ear the entire time. Johnson would then put him away in the later rounds. He might not even break a sweat.

I figured to get some flack for hyping Klitschko,he may not be a great,and have some glass in his chin,but some of you have Johnson WAY over-rated,watch this guy FOR REAL not in an awe-induced trance after somebody has hyped him,He is vastly overated and I pick a whole slew of fighters Marciano among them to have defeated this clown.Klitschko had a good chance also,he's not some faded old hero like Jeffries was,Johnson got that reputation against mostly plodders,heavyweights back then didn't move like in later years,and while Johnson may have been a cut above those guys in terms of ability,he was a cut WAY below some who came later,from Louis on.
PS:Schmeling would have caved that gold tooth smile in like a rotted pumpkin,and no fellas I'm not just saying this to get a rise out of some,just my own personal belief,
zuru

[Seamus]

Johnson easy. And next Fitzsimmons drops Wlad for the count with the solar plexus punch.

[Lenny]

It's often unfair to pitch guys from the 1900's against modern day fighters but even with this Johnson has waay too much for Klitschko. Far too good defensively and he'd absolutly pound Klitschko up close, infighting is something Wlad really cannot do and against Johnson that would spell a tough night. With Wlad's chin thrown in as well...

Also Klitschko, Marciano, Schmeling to beat Johnson...

[Ezzard]

Johnson would destroy Klitschko. As great as Wlad is offensively, Johnson was even better defensively. He's faster than Wlad. Wlad would have a lot of trouble hitting him. Johnson, who in his prime could go 40 + rounds with ease, would simply wait for Wlad to tire himself out, probably while grinning from ear to ear the entire time. Johnson would then put him away in the later rounds. He might not even break a sweat.

I figured to get some flack for hyping Klitschko,he may not be a great,and have some glass in his chin,but some of you have Johnson WAY over-rated,watch this guy FOR REAL not in an awe-induced trance after somebody has hyped him,He is vastly overated and I pick a whole slew of fighters Marciano among them to have defeated this clown.Klitschko had a good chance also,he's not some faded old hero like Jeffries was,Johnson got that reputation against mostly plodders,heavyweights back then didn't move like in later years,and while Johnson may have been a cut above those guys in terms of ability,he was a cut WAY below some who came later,from Louis on.
PS:Schmeling would have caved that gold tooth smile in like a rotted pumpkin,and no fellas I'm not just saying this to get a rise out of some,just my own personal belief,
zuru

Zuru

Imagine a heavyweight Floyd Mayweather pacing hismelf for 45 round fights... That's Jack Johnson...

[theone]

I agree with Zuru; Johnson is waaaay overrated. He was a giant in his day and thats what helped him get away with some of the tactics he used. Klitschko would have easily been the best fighter he ever faced and would stand a great chance of defeating Johnson with little more than his jab.

[dempseyfire]

I agree with Zuru; Johnson is waaaay overrated. He was a giant in his day and thats what helped him get away with some of the tactics he used. Klitschko would have easily been the best fighter he ever faced and would stand a great chance of defeating Johnson with little more than his jab.

Totally un-true. If you watch the film slowed down instead of on sped up, hand cranked film time speed (which would make Wlad look RIDICULOUS), you can see Johnson was a highly skilled, extremely fast shift counter-puncher who knew how to slip punches inside and could throw sharp jabs and counter-rights from the outside. It wasn't a whole bunch of drugs people took in the 19teens that made MANY experts, writers, and boxers themselves who saw Johnson and later on Dempsey, Joe Louis, Marciano, and even Ali, that Johnson was the best HW who ever lived.
This was a guy who beat and stayed competetive with tough, avoided black HWs in his LATE 40s and he was no Foreman, this guy completly abused his body with drinking and fast living. If he was just a guy who "used his size" (despite the fact he beat many men much larger than himself), he would've been manhandled at a soft, flabby 45 years old.

Klitschko clinches often in a round and holds on. Johnson did like to clinch his smaller opponents but if you really examine the film in real time he is throwing punches on the inside and when he did face bigger opponents (you can see in the Williard film) for the first 20 rounds Johnson easily slipped inside Jess's jab and threw 4-7 punch combinations to Williard's body and head.

If Wlad has a hard time figuring out Calvin Brock's defense, he will not even hit Johnson. On a counter punch, Johnson KO3.

[beanflicker]

I'd take Wlad by KO in round 7-10. Johnson was an impressive fighter but I have big doubts about him overcoming the combination of Wlad's reach and power, and the fact that he has skill for a big man.

[pound per pound]

[/quote]Totally un-true. If you watch the film slowed down instead of on sped up, hand cranked film time speed (which would make Wlad look RIDICULOUS), you can see Johnson was a highly skilled, extremely fast shift counter-puncher who knew how to slip punches inside and could throw sharp jabs and counter-rights from the outside. It wasn't a whole bunch of drugs people took in the 19teens that made MANY experts, writers, and boxers themselves who saw Johnson and later on Dempsey, Joe Louis, Marciano, and even Ali, that Johnson was the best HW who ever lived.

This was a guy who beat and stayed competetive with tough, avoided black HWs in his LATE 40s and he was no Foreman, this guy completly abused his body with drinking and fast living. If he was just a guy who "used his size" (despite the fact he beat many men much larger than himself), he would've been manhandled at a soft, flabby 45 years old.

Klitschko clinches often in a round and holds on. Johnson did like to clinch his smaller opponents but if you really examine the film in real time he is throwing punches on the inside and when he did face bigger opponents (you can see in the Williard film) for the first 20 rounds Johnson easily slipped inside Jess's jab and threw 4-7 punch combinations to Williard's body and head.

If Wlad has a hard time figuring out Calvin Brock's defense, he will not even hit Johnson. On a counter punch, Johnson KO3.[/quote]

Dempseyfire,

Vlad's record is 47-3 in his first 50 fights. What was Johnson's record in his first 50 fights?

People rag on Vlad’s chin. Brewster and Sanders knocked him out. Counter point. Johnson was KO'd by light heavyweight Choynski, knocked down an embarrassed by a crude but powerful middle weight in Ketchel, and quit in a title match that was ruled a draw vs a journeyman named Jim Johnson. Do you really think Johnson could take Vlad's bombs? I don’t and Johnson never fought a rangy skilled opponent with speed and power like Wlad has.

I hear that Johnson was considered a master boxer. According to whom? Does a master boxer really lose on points to Marvin Hart, and lose or drew to numerous lesser types? On film Johnson is quick handed for sure, but he clinches more than Ruiz and does not throw many punches. I don't think Johnson had one punch power like Brewster or Sanders do, so you can forget an early Ko win for Johnson. While strong himself, Johnson gives up about 50 pounds if he decides to clinch with Vlad.

If you want to talk title matches, Johnson beat smaller / limited type of fighters, or in some cases older fighters. I highly doubt Ketchel, Flynn, Kaufman or Ross would last a 12 combined rounds vs Vlad.

Sorry Dempseyfire, if we are talking legends it’s Papa Jack by a country mile, but you want to match the two in the ring you asking for the unlikely. If Johnson had a better chin, a more active style, and a much better punch, then things could be different.

[Seamus]

Let's see, a prime Jack Johnson got decked by a 170 lb Ketchell, had a 168 Burns still on his feet in the 14th, struggled with a 161 lb O'Brien, and couldn't KO a 156 lb Langford in 15.

[Seamus]

This is similar to other accounts I've read.

20,000 people packed Rushcutters Bay on that Boxing Day in 1908. Jack Johnson was first in the ring and received a good reception. He had a 5 and a half inch height advantage over the Canadian champion. Johnsons intention was to dictate the fight from the start. When the fighters broke from a clinch in Round 1 Johnson smashed a tremendous right swing towards Burns unprotected jaw and Burns went down for a count of 8. Johnson proceeded to taunt Burns. “Poor old Tahmmy” he would say as Burns lunged willdy at him.

This became the pattern of the fight as Johnson was continually taunt the champion. He would flash his gold toothed grin to the crowd as he beat Burns to a pulp. He would invite Tommy to hit him and would actually allow him to land a couple of blows. In fact a sports writer covering the fight commented that not one second of one round could legitimately be scored for Burns.

The bell sounded to start the fourteenth round and Johnson was intent of ending it. He eventually opened up and proceeded to smash Burns with every shot in the book. Uppercuts and hooks rained in on the defenceless champion and even the most bloodthirsty members of the crowd were calling for the fights end. It came as no surprise when the police saw fit to stop the fight. Jack Johnson was awarded the title on the spot.

[Halfamill]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Johnson had no defense. Klitschko wins this one by KO.

[Lenny]

Stand corrected Halfamill

[dr_devious]

Klitschko has a glass jaw, Johnson would end it any time he likes.
Halfamill - Jack Johnson was a defensive master

[overhand_right]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Johnson had no defense. Klitschko wins this one by KO.

Johnson was reknown for his defense.

Johnson was so at ease fighting, he would laugh and joke with ringsiders during the fight. As opposed to Wlad K, who collapses with an anxiety attack if someone hangs around for 5 rds.

Lets hold this over 20 rds, or better yet the 45 that Johnson/Willard was scheduled for. How long Can Wlad stay up?

[overhand_right]

Let's see, a prime Jack Johnson got decked by a 170 lb Ketchell, had a 168 Burns still on his feet in the 14th, struggled with a 161 lb O'Brien, and couldn't KO a 156 lb Langford in 15.

Wlad K got decked by soft punching journeyman Steve Pannell and was used as a ring mop v Ross Puritty.

[Ambling Alp]

It's hard to believe this is even being discussed. Yes, Klitschko is a hard puncher and had some good boxing skills. That is where it ends. He has no chin and in many of his fights has shown he he doesn't know what to do when he is hurt, although he seems to be getting better at this. His stamina is also questionable.

There is the remote puncher's chance that Klitschko lands a haymaker, but that is only chance. Johnson was a great defensive fighter and the chances of Klitschko nailing him with a haymaker is remote.

Johnson would probably be content to win by decison, but Klitscho's chin is so bad that Johnson would probably knockout him out without really going for a knockout.

This is a complete mismatch. Johnson wins every round and probably stops Klitschko in 7 or 8 rounds.

[Seamus]

Ross Purrity had-has a very solid chin, Wlad dominated the fight, and then ran out of gas. He'd be more likely to get KO'd by Chris Byrd than Jack Johnson, and obviously that didn't happen. Who did Johnson ever beat ? Ancient Fitzsimmons, Old Jeffries ? We know who he avoided though. I think it's possible, Johnson's best performance ever may actually have been the first 20 rds against Willard. Before you come back with any sarcastic comments though, how about just telling me exactly what fights Johnson looked like a world beater in.

[Ezzard]

I actually think that the Klitschkos are decent fighters who would give most people a good fight. I don't want to open any old wounds so I'll leave it at that. I simply do not believe that either of them would be an easy fight for anyone.

But, Johnson was clearly a class or three above them. He is generally regarded as having the greatest defence of any HW champion. He was at home inside where he could entangle his opponents and nullify their aggression but he could also use his speed and skill to work from the outside.

The best way to beat Johnson is to outwork him over the distance. Basically throw everything at him for 15 rounds and try to avoid getting countered to death.

[overhand_right]

He'd be more likely to get KO'd by Chris Byrd than Jack Johnson, and obviously that didn't happen. .

How about you try and justify this bizarre comparison before anything else. What is this based on?

And if Wlad can dominate and run out of gas v a target as hittable as Puritty, why not against an ATG who would routinely box 20 rds against world class opposition?

[dempseyfire]

Totally un-true. If you watch the film slowed down instead of on sped up, hand cranked film time speed (which would make Wlad look RIDICULOUS), you can see Johnson was a highly skilled, extremely fast shift counter-puncher who knew how to slip punches inside and could throw sharp jabs and counter-rights from the outside. It wasn't a whole bunch of drugs people took in the 19teens that made MANY experts, writers, and boxers themselves who saw Johnson and later on Dempsey, Joe Louis, Marciano, and even Ali, that Johnson was the best HW who ever lived.

This was a guy who beat and stayed competetive with tough, avoided black HWs in his LATE 40s and he was no Foreman, this guy completly abused his body with drinking and fast living. If he was just a guy who "used his size" (despite the fact he beat many men much larger than himself), he would've been manhandled at a soft, flabby 45 years old.

Klitschko clinches often in a round and holds on. Johnson did like to clinch his smaller opponents but if you really examine the film in real time he is throwing punches on the inside and when he did face bigger opponents (you can see in the Williard film) for the first 20 rounds Johnson easily slipped inside Jess's jab and threw 4-7 punch combinations to Williard's body and head.

If Wlad has a hard time figuring out Calvin Brock's defense, he will not even hit Johnson. On a counter punch, Johnson KO3.[/quote]

Dempseyfire,

Vlad's record is 47-3 in his first 50 fights. What was Johnson's record in his first 50 fights?

People rag on Vlad’s chin. Brewster and Sanders knocked him out. Counter point. Johnson was KO'd by light heavyweight Choynski, knocked down an embarrassed by a crude but powerful middle weight in Ketchel, and quit in a title match that was ruled a draw vs a journeyman named Jim Johnson. Do you really think Johnson could take Vlad's bombs? I don’t and Johnson never fought a rangy skilled opponent with speed and power like Wlad has.

I hear that Johnson was considered a master boxer. According to whom? Does a master boxer really lose on points to Marvin Hart, and lose or drew to numerous lesser types? On film Johnson is quick handed for sure, but he clinches more than Ruiz and does not throw many punches. I don't think Johnson had one punch power like Brewster or Sanders do, so you can forget an early Ko win for Johnson. While strong himself, Johnson gives up about 50 pounds if he decides to clinch with Vlad.

If you want to talk title matches, Johnson beat smaller / limited type of fighters, or in some cases older fighters. I highly doubt Ketchel, Flynn, Kaufman or Ross would last a 12 combined rounds vs Vlad.

Sorry Dempseyfire, if we are talking legends it’s Papa Jack by a country mile, but you want to match the two in the ring you asking for the unlikely. If Johnson had a better chin, a more active style, and a much better punch, then things could be different.[/quote]


If Johnson had been babied and coddled by a monster Euro promoter like Universum his first 50 fights, he probably would've been undefeated.

He didn't have an amateur background like Wlad . . . his first pro fights in Galveston were basically his amateur background. I find no fault in him being stopped while completely green and living day to day vs his first huge step-up in competetion vs Choynski. A lot less embarassing than being stopped by Purrity after winning Olympic Gold and having over 20 pro fights.

Johnson didn't go for early KOs like Dempsey, but all who saw him and fought him exclaimed that he had excellent punching power. Not as powerful as a Liston or Tua, but he could definetely hurt you and knock you out.

The Hart decision was widely considered a robbery

No, Flynn and Ketchel were great wins, but beating the likes of Jeanette, Sam Mcvey (who was much more experienced than his boxrec record shows when he fought Jack), Denver Ed Martin, and Langford (Johnson had a 30 lb wiehgt advantage but he would've enjoyed that advantage later on when he bulked up to 210 and Sam went up to around 180)

Wlad shifty? He has throws the 3 fundamental punches well (jab, right cross, left hook) but has no inside game to speak of, no uppercut, and has never shown he can survive a war (Peter just gassed out after he had Wlad in trouble). He looks good when he's leading and his opponent is not throwing a lot of punches (see the Mercer, McCline fights)

But vs Johnson he would be getting hit by counters he's never seen before, and getting tired when his jabs and hooks are being easily slipped and evaded by Johnson. By the middle rounds, Johnson would start stepping inside of the jab and throwing the same combinations he tattoed Williard with.

But Wlad doesn't have the chin or near the durability of Jess. Nor the 20 plus rounds to stick around.

[pound per pound]

Dempseyfire,

Vlad's record is 47-3 in his first 50 fights. What was Johnson's record in his first 50 fights?

People rag on Vlad’s chin. Brewster and Sanders knocked him out. Counter point. Johnson was KO'd by light heavyweight Choynski, knocked down an embarrassed by a crude but powerful middle weight in Ketchel, and quit in a title match that was ruled a draw vs a journeyman named Jim Johnson. Do you really think Johnson could take Vlad's bombs? I don’t and Johnson never fought a rangy skilled opponent with speed and power like Wlad has.

I hear that Johnson was considered a master boxer. According to whom? Does a master boxer really lose on points to Marvin Hart, and lose or drew to numerous lesser types? On film Johnson is quick handed for sure, but he clinches more than Ruiz and does not throw many punches. I don't think Johnson had one punch power like Brewster or Sanders do, so you can forget an early Ko win for Johnson. While strong himself, Johnson gives up about 50 pounds if he decides to clinch with Vlad.

If you want to talk title matches, Johnson beat smaller / limited type of fighters, or in some cases older fighters. I highly doubt Ketchel, Flynn, Kaufman or Ross would last a 12 combined rounds vs Vlad.

Sorry Dempseyfire, if we are talking legends it’s Papa Jack by a country mile, but you want to match the two in the ring you asking for the unlikely. If Johnson had a better chin, a more active style, and a much better punch, then things could be different.

If Johnson had been babied and coddled by a monster Euro promoter like Universum his first 50 fights, he probably would've been undefeated

.

>>BS. And since when does Universum have great trainers?

He didn't have an amateur background like Wlad . . . his first pro fights in Galveston were basically his amateur background. I find no fault in him being stopped while completely green and living day to day vs his first huge step-up in competetion vs Choynski. A lot less embarassing than being stopped by Purrity after winning Olympic Gold and having over 20 pro fights.

>>Green, eh? Johnson had 20 pro recorded fights under his belt when he was KO'd by one punch. The chin police would have been on his case if he was a modern fighter.

Johnson didn't go for early KOs like Dempsey, but all who saw him and fought him exclaimed that he had excellent punching power. Not as powerful as a Liston or Tua, but he could definetely hurt you and knock you out.

>>Correct. Johnson was a saftey first type of fighter, which is why you're pick of Johsnon via Ko in 3 is suspect.

The Hart decision was widely considered a robbery

>> Johsnon admited defeat in his auto bio as being " whiped " Nat Fleisher said Johnson also lost. Even if fight was close, if Johnsons skills were as good as you claim, he should blow Hart out.

No, Flynn and Ketchel were great wins, but beating the likes of Jeanette, Sam Mcvey (who was much more experienced than his boxrec record shows when he fought Jack), Denver Ed Martin, and Langford (Johnson had a 30 lb wiehgt advantage but he would've enjoyed that advantage later on when he bulked up to 210 and Sam went up to around 180)

>> I take it you meant to say, no Flynn and Ketchel were not great wins.

Wlad shifty? He has throws the 3 fundamental punches well (jab, right cross, left hook) but has no inside game to speak of, no uppercut, and has never shown he can survive a war (Peter just gassed out after he had Wlad in trouble). He looks good when he's leading and his opponent is not throwing a lot of punches (see the Mercer, McCline fights)

But vs Johnson he would be getting hit by counters he's never seen before, and getting tired when his jabs and hooks are being easily slipped and evaded by Johnson. By the middle rounds, Johnson would start stepping inside of the jab and throwing the same combinations he tattoed Williard with.

>>Willard fights like a tough man guy from the stands. Vlad is rarely countered. When you're 6'6, with a long reach countering is hard enough. Add in great speed, great power, and good accuracy, and you get a fighter who is not likely to be counterd on the outside.

But Wlad doesn't have the chin or near the durability of Jess. Nor the 20 plus rounds to stick around.

>>The fight is 15 rounds in this thread, not 20.. Vlad's chin is an issue vs agressive puncher types. Johsnon does not hit as hard as Sanders, Brewster, Peter, and co, and Johnson is ceritaly not an agressive type of fighter. I'm not saying Johnson wasn't great. He was. What I am saying is styles make fights, and punchers can end them quickly. The match up in all cases in Vlad's.

[dempseyfire]

Dempseyfire,

Vlad's record is 47-3 in his first 50 fights. What was Johnson's record in his first 50 fights?

People rag on Vlad’s chin. Brewster and Sanders knocked him out. Counter point. Johnson was KO'd by light heavyweight Choynski, knocked down an embarrassed by a crude but powerful middle weight in Ketchel, and quit in a title match that was ruled a draw vs a journeyman named Jim Johnson. Do you really think Johnson could take Vlad's bombs? I don’t and Johnson never fought a rangy skilled opponent with speed and power like Wlad has.

I hear that Johnson was considered a master boxer. According to whom? Does a master boxer really lose on points to Marvin Hart, and lose or drew to numerous lesser types? On film Johnson is quick handed for sure, but he clinches more than Ruiz and does not throw many punches. I don't think Johnson had one punch power like Brewster or Sanders do, so you can forget an early Ko win for Johnson. While strong himself, Johnson gives up about 50 pounds if he decides to clinch with Vlad.

If you want to talk title matches, Johnson beat smaller / limited type of fighters, or in some cases older fighters. I highly doubt Ketchel, Flynn, Kaufman or Ross would last a 12 combined rounds vs Vlad.

Sorry Dempseyfire, if we are talking legends it’s Papa Jack by a country mile, but you want to match the two in the ring you asking for the unlikely. If Johnson had a better chin, a more active style, and a much better punch, then things could be different.

If Johnson had been babied and coddled by a monster Euro promoter like Universum his first 50 fights, he probably would've been undefeated

.

>>BS. And since when does Universum have great trainers?

He didn't have an amateur background like Wlad . . . his first pro fights in Galveston were basically his amateur background. I find no fault in him being stopped while completely green and living day to day vs his first huge step-up in competetion vs Choynski. A lot less embarassing than being stopped by Purrity after winning Olympic Gold and having over 20 pro fights.

>>Green, eh? Johnson had 20 pro recorded fights under his belt when he was KO'd by one punch. The chin police would have been on his case if he was a modern fighter.

Johnson didn't go for early KOs like Dempsey, but all who saw him and fought him exclaimed that he had excellent punching power. Not as powerful as a Liston or Tua, but he could definetely hurt you and knock you out.

>>Correct. Johnson was a saftey first type of fighter, which is why you're pick of Johsnon via Ko in 3 is suspect.

The Hart decision was widely considered a robbery

>> Johsnon admited defeat in his auto bio as being " whiped " Nat Fleisher said Johnson also lost. Even if fight was close, if Johnsons skills were as good as you claim, he should blow Hart out.

No, Flynn and Ketchel were great wins, but beating the likes of Jeanette, Sam Mcvey (who was much more experienced than his boxrec record shows when he fought Jack), Denver Ed Martin, and Langford (Johnson had a 30 lb wiehgt advantage but he would've enjoyed that advantage later on when he bulked up to 210 and Sam went up to around 180)

>> I take it you meant to say, no Flynn and Ketchel were not great wins.

Wlad shifty? He has throws the 3 fundamental punches well (jab, right cross, left hook) but has no inside game to speak of, no uppercut, and has never shown he can survive a war (Peter just gassed out after he had Wlad in trouble). He looks good when he's leading and his opponent is not throwing a lot of punches (see the Mercer, McCline fights)

But vs Johnson he would be getting hit by counters he's never seen before, and getting tired when his jabs and hooks are being easily slipped and evaded by Johnson. By the middle rounds, Johnson would start stepping inside of the jab and throwing the same combinations he tattoed Williard with.

>>Willard fights like a tough man guy from the stands. Vlad is rarely countered. When you're 6'6, with a long reach countering is hard enough. Add in great speed, great power, and good accuracy, and you get a fighter who is not likely to be counterd on the outside.

But Wlad doesn't have the chin or near the durability of Jess. Nor the 20 plus rounds to stick around.

>>The fight is 15 rounds in this thread, not 20.. Vlad's chin is an issue vs agressive puncher types. Johsnon does not hit as hard as Sanders, Brewster, Peter, and co, and Johnson is ceritaly not an agressive type of fighter. I'm not saying Johnson wasn't great. He was. What I am saying is styles make fights, and punchers can end them quickly. The match up in all cases in Vlad's.

Did you read what I wrote about Johnson's lack of an amateur background? You can't compare a fighter's early record from 1900 to one in the 1990s . . .COMPLETELY different situation. Fritz Sdunek is a very good trainer, and Klitschko was fed a huge bunch of stuff for over 30 pro fights before slightly stepping it up. Johnson couldn't have done that if you wanted to. Back then you got no money until you began beating recognized, quality fighters. Especially if you were black. Simple as that.

How do you know Johnson didn't hit as hard as Brewster or Sanders? I've read numerous accounts of Johnson's punching ability. I've never heard anyone say he was a light hitter.

Williard actually used his height and reach and relied his whole gameplan on the left jab. No he wasn't as well-skilled or fluid as Klitschko but he was also a lot more durable and had much better stamina.

Wlad can't be countered from the outside? Did you see the Sanders fight?
Wlad also has no uppercut so all he can do is hope to grab Johnson fast enough so he can't do anything. Johnson is much quicker and shiftier than Brewster.

Johnson never said Hart whipped him . . and Nat Fleisher said it was a robbery!!!! Where are you getting this from????

Johnson was versatile . . .he could fight long drawn out fights, or start quick and be aggressive (as he did in the Martin and Mcvey rematches). Frank Moran, very much a power puncher, landed his best shots on Johnson and Jack laughed in his face. Funny, every time someone lands flush on Wlad he stumbles like a pupper and grabs on for dear life.

Upon further thinking it might take longer but no doubt Johnson wins by KO before the 8th round.

[dempseyfire]

People rag on Vlad’s chin. Brewster and Sanders knocked him out. Counter point. Johnson was KO'd by light heavyweight Choynski, knocked down an embarrassed by a crude but powerful middle weight in Ketchel, and quit in a title match that was ruled a draw vs a journeyman named Jim Johnson.

That's just silly. Johnson was just a beginner when he fought Choynski. He was "embarrassed" by Ketchel? He won every round and knocked Ketchel out. Watch that fight again. He pretended to be a lot more hurt by the KD than he actually was. He showed that he was the true master. And the Jim Johnson fight? He ENTERED the ring with a broken arm and fought for 10 rounds because he really had no other choice, broke and on the run from the law. Further, I'd like to see a source that backs up your claim that Johnson "quit." As far as I know, the officials stopped the fight, although why they did is up to question. While conventional thought states that the fight was stopped after 10 because Johnson couldn't continue, I've also read that the newly-formed IBU ceased recognition of Johnson as the World Heavyweight Champion, and ordered the bout to be 10 rounds, instead of 20, as scheduled.

That wasn't me that was lb for lb