Cassius Clay + Muhammad Ali

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 15 Feb 2007, 12:51

For this thread I'm gonna split this boxer into two personas...

CASSIUS CLAY
***Firey, young whippersnapper (last fight against Sonny Liston)

MUHAMMAD ALI
***3 time World Title Holder...

When where both of these boxers in their prime & in what fight?

****I'm gonna guess that Clay's prime will be against Liston...

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 15 Feb 2007, 13:08

You could also split his career into "first phase career up to the Zora Folley fight" - and "comeback after suspension". In the former category a lot of people reckon his win over Cleveland Williams showed him at his best - though Williams was far from his peak at that stage, way past his best and carrying the effects from a shooting incident with the police some time beforehand. Of course by that fight he'd become Ali.... so if you are looking for his best win b4 he changed name you'd probably short list Liston and Archie Moore as the two best performances.

After he came back....The Thrillla in Manila, and the Rumble in the Jungle would stand out. His second win over Jerry Quarry showed him at top of his form IMO.

J

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 17 Feb 2007, 16:26

Sadly, the period between the suspension and the comeback would have been the prime of his career. No one will ever know how great he would have been
The sport was robbed of that by the reactionary racist hypicrits who sheltered their own lilly white kids in 4F draft staus, and at the same time, deprived Ali of his rights, and the sport of his greatness.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Feb 2007, 16:32

The Ali of the 60's proved, in my mind, he was the fastest HW of all times. But for my money the best Ali was the ALi of 70-75. He really proved himself and erased all previous doubts about him.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 17 Feb 2007, 17:03

cosand wrote:Sadly, the period between the suspension and the comeback would have been the prime of his career. No one will ever know how great he would have been
The sport was robbed of that by the reactionary racist hypicrits who sheltered their own lilly white kids in 4F draft staus, and at the same time, deprived Ali of his rights, and the sport of his greatness.

Yeah, gotta agree with you there cosand. We missed Ali's best 3 years and his resume still looks superb. I get some flack when I suggest that had Ali not been kept out of the ring, Frazier and Foreman might not have won titles at that time but to me it's quite plausible. Ali, after 3 years of inactivity and only 2 tune-ups still gave peak frazier a good fight.

As an aside, didn't the two greatest USA warmongers of recent times, Bush and Wolfowitz hide out from the draft for Vietnam? They are exceptionally brave though when it's someone elses kids they are sending to fight a war for big business...

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 17 Feb 2007, 17:29

Collins2000

Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 1274

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject:

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cosand wrote:
Sadly, the period between the suspension and the comeback would have been the prime of his career. No one will ever know how great he would have been
The sport was robbed of that by the reactionary racist hypicrits who sheltered their own lilly white kids in 4F draft staus, and at the same time, deprived Ali of his rights, and the sport of his greatness.

Yeah, gotta agree with you there cosand. We missed Ali's best 3 years and his resume still looks superb. I get some flack when I suggest that had Ali not been kept out of the ring, Frazier and Foreman might not have won titles at that time but to me it's quite plausible. Ali, after 3 years of inactivity and only 2 tune-ups still gave peak frazier a good fight.

As an aside, didn't the two greatest USA warmongers of recent times, Bush and Wolfowitz hide out from the draft for Vietnam? They are exceptionally brave though when it's someone elses kids they are sending to fight a war for big business...

You are 100% correct about Bush, who joined the air national guard, and failed to show up for his physical and Wolfowitz declared student defurments.
Add Chaney, Limbaugh, Ashcroft, Mitch McConnell, Trent Lott, Mitt Romney, Bill Frist, Newt Gingrich, Dennis Hastart and KKKarl Rove to the list of "chicakenhawk" war supporters who wewre just too busy being good young Republicans to have served.
back to the 60s ?
Not a single member of the Senate, and only a 7 members of the House, had kids serving in Viet nam between 1966 and 1972.