BoxRec

How about Muhammand Ali? Sure he occupied a nitch in time between the slow cumversome heavyweigthts of similar or smaller size. But, he had all he could handle with bascially a one-handed cruiserwight (Joe Frazier) and a fighter who would crumble against anyone with power (Ken Norton).

Yes, he was fast and big for a heavyweight at the time. But, a fast handed, two handed puncher like the early Mike Tyson would have destroyed him like he did Larry Holmes. And, against big, fast guys like those that exist today, he would have crumpled like a garbage can.

Talk about myths!!!!

TigerMoth wrote:How about Muhammand Ali? Sure he occupied a nitch in time between the slow cumversome heavyweigthts of similar or smaller size. But, he had all he could handle with bascially a one-handed cruiserwight (Joe Frazier) and a fighter who would crumble against anyone with power (Ken Norton).

Yes, he was fast and big for a heavyweight at the time. But, a fast handed, two handed puncher like the early Mike Tyson would have destroyed him like he did Larry Holmes. And, against big, fast guys like those that exist today, he would have crumpled like a garbage can.

Talk about myths!!!!

I think you need to go to rehab and stop using drugs; they are seriously affecting your judgment. Look at his record and the fighters that he defeated.

...are you sure you really thought that post completely through before you pressed the "submit" button? Not to worry...the "edit" button can be your friend.

[quote="Borinken25"][quote="TigerMoth"]How about Muhammand Ali? Sure he occupied a nitch in time between the slow cumversome heavyweigthts of similar or smaller size. But, he had all he could handle with bascially a one-handed cruiserwight (Joe Frazier) and a fighter who would crumble against anyone with power (Ken Norton).

Yes, he was fast and big for a heavyweight at the time. But, a fast handed, two handed puncher like the early Mike Tyson would have destroyed him like he did Larry Holmes. And, against big, fast guys like those that exist today, he would have crumpled like a garbage can.

Talk about myths!!!![/quote]

I think you need to go to rehab and stop using drugs; they are seriously affecting your judgment. Look at his record and the fighters that he defeated.[/quote] Well, very intelligent argument on your part. So, for example you might want to explain how he would have won another talented, but, much larger heavyweight such as Lennox Lewis.

Isn't it obvious that Ali used his reach and size to great advantage and this would not exist against many of today's fighters. Using Lennox Lewis, now retired, as an example.

Or how about this, a small, inexperienced agressive fighter with less than 10 professional fights beat Ali, Spinks, so, how would Holyfield have done?

[quote="BoxBuzz"]...are you sure you really thought that post completely through before you pressed the "submit" button? Not to worry...the "edit" button can be your friend.[/quote]

Ali would always use his left, grearter reach against most fighters of his time, to hold his oponent away, how would he have done this against either of the Klistcho brothers?

Why even compare Ali and Lewis. Ali's a legend. He beat a prime Sonny Liston, came back against the #2 contender Quarry (who does that nowadays?), beat Frazier 2x, a prime Foreman, did great in one of the deepest heavyweight divisions of all time. Lewis, although it wasn't all his fault, its always about who he can POTENTIALLY beat.

Calling Ali the most overrated boxer ever is stupid, now if you want to argue #1 heavyweight all-time, go right on ahead.

I think Teddy Atlas said it best on Marciano:

'He was over rated because of the 49-0 and under-rated because he beat the best fighters available even if they were older.'

Or something along those lines...was on SPORTSCENTURY's program on Marciano. So Marciano falls into the rare category of being both the most over rated and the most under rated champion(s) in history.

TigerMoth wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:...are you sure you really thought that post completely through before you pressed the "submit" button? Not to worry...the "edit" button can be your friend.

Ali would always use his left, grearter reach against most fighters of his time, to hold his oponent away, how would he have done this against either of the Klistcho brothers?

Ali had trouble with Frazier cose he(Ali) had no real power.. all Frazier did was pour in like a tide. And Ali outboxed Foreman who had better reach! Also when older he did let those guys quite close to him.

I dislike Ali very much and think he was overrated but not by landslide.

TigerMoth wrote:Ali would always use his left, grearter reach against most fighters of his time, to hold his oponent away, how would he have done this against either of the Klistcho brothers?

Have you ever heard of Ernie Terrell? He was 6’-6” and a MUCH more gifted boxer than both Klits combined, and Ali toyed with him.

Liston also had a reach advantage and had one of the best jabs ever seen. Ali took it away...

I'll say this though...he may be overrated. Ali is my number 1 HW of all-time but anyone who is so revered must be overrated.

TigerMoth wrote:Or how about this, a small, inexperienced agressive fighter with less than 10 professional fights beat Ali, Spinks, so, how would Holyfield have done?

Yeah TigerMoth is right, when Ali finally stepped up he was exposed by Spinx, at last someone who knows wahat they're talking about.

Ali is one of the few fighters who spent his entire career at heavyweight, who isn't overrated.

Yes, the greatest heavyweight fighter ever who competed in the toughest era ever. Definitely overrated. Lay off the drugs mate

TigerMoth wrote:

Borinken25 wrote:

TigerMoth wrote:

Or how about this, a small, inexperienced agressive fighter with less than 10 professional fights beat Ali, Spinks, so, how would Holyfield have done?

Dundee said Ali never trained for this fight as he was so over confident that he would beat Spinks. Also Ali was nearing the end of his career, no way near the fighter he was in his early days.

At the end of the day Ali was a great fighter and the fighters he fought are a "who's who" of the heavyweight division. He ducked no-one and beat most of them. The greatest ever is up for debate but one of the very best no doubt.

If anyone is over-rated it is Marciano.

Listen guys, no true heavyweight champion of the world is overrated and if you are a real fan of the sport of boxing you would know this. It is the pinnacle in sports and most prestigious title, so to call one of its champions overrated is ridiculous and insulting. I have no problem comparing or saying Ali was better than Louis or Louis was better than the Rock etc etc. But none of these guys were overrated and anyone saying Rocky was is off the mark. He has the most perfect record in sports history and he was the man for his time. That's all he could do. He beat who was around during his reign. Don't disrespect such class and brilliance.

walshb wrote:Listen guys, no true heavyweight champion of the world is overrated and if you are a real fan of the sport of boxing you would know this. It is the pinnacle in sports and most prestigious title, so to call one of its champions overrated is ridiculous and insulting. I have no problem comparing or saying Ali was better than Louis or Louis was better than the Rock etc etc. But none of these guys were overrated and anyone saying Rocky was is off the mark. He has the most perfect record in sports history and he was the man for his time. That's all he could do. He beat who was around during his reign. Don't disrespect such class and brilliance.

I hear what you say however I wasn't meaning to take anything away from Marciano. And your right he beat those put in front of him.

What I meant by over-rated was how some people rank him the best ever because he was 49-0. Or some people believe Marciano would beat any modern day fighter because he was never beaten. To me that is ridiculous as Marciano fought in a weak era against fighters past their best.

He still is a favourite of mine and always will be. In my opinion though he is often over-rated in his abilities.

It's March 1st today not April 1st.

you think a guy with wins over sonny liston, joe frazier, george foreman, floyd patterson, archie moore, ken norton, jimmy ellis, jimmy young, buster mathis, ernie terrell, jerry quarry, zora foley, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, cleveland williams, joe bugner, henry cooper, bob foster, karl mildenberger, ron lyle and ernie shavers (plus a load more i cant think of at the moment) is over rated???
jeez tigermoth, what does a guy have to do to be rated by you?

TigerMoth wrote:How about Muhammand Ali? Sure he occupied a nitch in time between the slow cumversome heavyweigthts of similar or smaller size. But, he had all he could handle with bascially a one-handed cruiserwight (Joe Frazier) and a fighter who would crumble against anyone with power (Ken Norton).

Yes, he was fast and big for a heavyweight at the time. But, a fast handed, two handed puncher like the early Mike Tyson would have destroyed him like he did Larry Holmes. And, against big, fast guys like those that exist today, he would have crumpled like a garbage can.

Talk about myths!!!!

If Ali had been like everyone from Hector Mercedes, to Carl Williams, then yes Tyson would have beaten him. Tysons prime was over, the very moment Buster Douglas decided to fight back.

My guess is Muhammed would have decided to fight tyson the day the contract was signed, so no Tyson gets exposed by Ali, easily.

I hope that answers your question, as I'm not even going to mention your accusation about Ali.

how anyone can call Ali overrated is beyong me. He defeated virtually every great fighter of his time. and his last three losses where when he was older and started to suffer from parkinsons syndrome. and i dont remember him ever getting KO'd

TigerMoth wrote:How about Muhammand Ali? ...
Yes, he was fast and big for a heavyweight at the time. But, a fast handed, two handed puncher like the early Mike Tyson would have destroyed him like he did Larry Holmes.

Ha, ha, some dweeb starts a thread about "most overrated boxer ever", cites Ali as a supposed example, *then* cites none other than the legendary Tin Man, himself, Tyson, as a guy who would've exposed the featherfisted, weak-opponented, crumbly-kneed Ali. Classic - that's almost as legendarily stupid as Damien's legendarily stupid "High Altitude of Cardiif, Wales" thread. Ha, Frazier a "one-handed cruiserweight" ... Ali KTFOs Foreman but has no power ... oh, so many rich nuggets of steaming illogical doo-doo to admire here.

Methinks TigerMoth has bonked into a few too many porch lights during his nighttime flutterings...

Anyone else notice that "TigerMoth" is an anagram of "Mother Git"?

Mike Tyson
Rocky Marciano
Roy Jones

TigerMoth wrote:How about Muhammand Ali? Sure he occupied a nitch in time between the slow cumversome heavyweigthts of similar or smaller size. But, he had all he could handle with bascially a one-handed cruiserwight (Joe Frazier) and a fighter who would crumble against anyone with power (Ken Norton).

Yes, he was fast and big for a heavyweight at the time. But, a fast handed, two handed puncher like the early Mike Tyson would have destroyed him like he did Larry Holmes. And, against big, fast guys like those that exist today, he would have crumpled like a garbage can.

Talk about myths!!!!

That's easy,Jack Johnson.If this guy were even 1/2 the fighter he's believed to be,he'd be awesome.
zuru

TigerMoth wrote:How about Muhammand Ali? Sure he occupied a nitch in time between the slow cumversome heavyweigthts of similar or smaller size. But, he had all he could handle with bascially a one-handed cruiserwight (Joe Frazier) and a fighter who would crumble against anyone with power (Ken Norton).

Yes, he was fast and big for a heavyweight at the time. But, a fast handed, two handed puncher like the early Mike Tyson would have destroyed him like he did Larry Holmes. And, against big, fast guys like those that exist today, he would have crumpled like a garbage can.

Talk about myths!!!!

What kind of drugs do they give in those insane asylums over there in Thailand?

You are out of your mind or have just temporarily lost it, I have read some pretty dumb, naive, misinformed, outrageous, outlandish, shocking, off the wall, whacked, and downright insane thoughts and comments but your's bud sure takes the cake hands down.

Darwin Award Winner for 2007............................. The honors go to you.

I agree with Ali being the most overrated fighter of all time. He's rated best heavy ever because, because.... well.. he's Ali. His ability gets confused with his historical significance. Prime vs. prime, I'd rate Joe Frazier over him.