Jimmy Young: Chris Byrd

[TigerMoth]

I remember watching Jimmy Young against Ali. I was amazed that Ali couldn't hit him. I thought Young won the fight.

That was a long time ago, And, I have watched Chris Byrd, avoid, outbox bigger men.

I don't have videos of either Jimmy or Chris and would appreciate a comparison and evaluation of who was a better fighter.

Thanks

[dempseyfire]

Young was better.
Better offensive fighter, better jab, better counter-puncher, plus a real 200 plus lber, rather than a blown-up light HW.

[BoxBuzz]

Follow the hyperlink to the Simulated Version of this hypthetical fight. Courtesy of the Mighty Univac Fight Simulator.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 582#776582

[KOJOE90]

Jimmy Young.

He rumbled with monsters that Byrd hasn't faced in his worst nightmares.

I like Byrd but Jimmy Young was just an all round better fighter and beat the much better opposition.

Byrd wasn't thrown in the deepend as a novice like Young was. Jimmy learnt from his loses to Williams and Shavers, he learnt from countless gym wars in Philly (many with Joe Frazier) and became a highly skilled, intelligent fighter. Maybe one of the most skilled Heavyweights of the last 50 years?

Jimmy's style just wasn't to everyones taste so I assume was never a big draw and so was not the first fighter a promoter would pick to have on his bill?

Jimmy after the Norton loss (a fight some say was a worked fight) his heart was broken and was never the same fighter after turning to drink and drugs.

A tragic loss.

[Tantum]

All I have to add is....

Damn that Jimmy could take a punch.

[overhand_right]

Byrd has close decisions over fatboy Tua and a 40 yr old Holyfield. Good results, but not exactly like mixing it up with Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, Norton, Ali etc....

Young all the way. His win over Foreman tops anything Byrd could ever do. And he never got his ass handed to him like Byrd has done by Wlad K and Ike.

[pundit]

I remember watching Jimmy Young against Ali. I was amazed that Ali couldn't hit him. I thought Young won the fight.

That was a long time ago, And, I have watched Chris Byrd, avoid, outbox bigger men.

I don't have videos of either Jimmy or Chris and would appreciate a comparison and evaluation of who was a better fighter.

Thanks

Well that's a slam dunk. Chris never outboxed anyone even remotely of Ali' stature. In fact, noone even remotely of Jimmy's top 5 opponents (not considering Byrd's fake victories over Vitali and Holyfield, of course).

Young wipes the floor for a few rounds with Byrd and then knocks him out.

[dempseyfire]

Whoa . . . some people's hatred for Chris Byrd over-rides the facts here.

I think Young was better, but let's not get carried away.

1) Byrd SCHOOLED Tua and an old Holyfield. Please, does anyone honestly think Holyfield without a bad shoulder still wins? I don't favor Byrd over a prime Holyfield at all but style-wise at that time, Byrd was always going to blow him out on the scorecards.

The Tua fight was def. Byrd's best performance. The Tuaman came in slimmed down under a new "high tech" training regimen and still got completely outboxed by Byrd and was DEAD TIRED by the 7th round. Entertaining fight.

2) Byrd had a great chin. Vitali and Tua never even hurt him once, Ike landed some big shots before that uppercut (and still Byrd never was down for more than a few seconds) and went about 20 rounds with Wladimir, going down a few times but never close to being counted out (and the shots he got up from in their rematch were monstrous)

Young knocks Byrd out? No friggin' way.

A Young-Byrd fight would be boring as hell and definetely close.

Young never got his ass handed to him like Byrd vs Ike and Wlad? He did get pummeled by Cooney and Shavers, and Byrd never lost TWICE to an opponent the calibre of Ossie Occasio.

[overhand_right]

Young never got his ass handed to him like Byrd vs Ike and Wlad? He did get pummeled by Cooney and Shavers, and Byrd never lost TWICE to an opponent the calibre of Ossie Occasio.

Whoa... so we're bringing up fights where Young was a 10 fight novice or a fat washed up Young impersonator?

Young got iced in the 3rd by the hardest hitter ever (as a novice v a 45-1 pro), but came back shortly thereafter to outbox Shavers but only get a draw.

I wouldnt say Cooney pummeled him, although he did get a bad cut. He was not bounced off the floor as Byrd was v Wlad K and Ike.

You honestly believe Byrd "schooled" Evander Holyfield...? Do you believe Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick "schooled" Ali?

And did Maurice Harris "school" Larry Holmes?

[pundit]

Young never got his ass handed to him like Byrd vs Ike and Wlad? He did get pummeled by Cooney and Shavers, and Byrd never lost TWICE to an opponent the calibre of Ossie Occasio.

Whoa... so we're bringing up fights where Young was a 10 fight novice or a fat washed up Young impersonator?

Young got iced in the 3rd by the hardest hitter ever (as a novice v a 45-1 pro), but came back shortly thereafter to outbox Shavers but only get a draw.

I wouldnt say Cooney pummeled him, although he did get a bad cut. He was not bounced off the floor as Byrd was v Wlad K and Ike.

You honestly believe Byrd "schooled" Evander Holyfield...? Do you believe Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick "schooled" Ali?

And did Maurice Harris "school" Larry Holmes?

Holyfield fought with one arm for most of the fight.

That's the only way how Byrd can "beat" classy opposition.

[overhand_right]

Plus Holyfield was 40. Regardless, Holyfield was far more competitive than the scorecards suggest. I remember Byrd told Ian Darke in convo that after fighting Holyfield he "ached for weeks" and he felt Holy still had "major power"!

[pundit]

Plus Holyfield was 40. Regardless, Holyfield was far more competitive than the scorecards suggest. I remember Byrd told Ian Darke in convo that after fighting Holyfield he "ached for weeks" and he felt Holy still had "major power"!

To be honest, Byrd's win over Tua has to weighed in his favor, although Tua was past it at the time. But that's pretty much the only fight that makes Byrd look remotely like a class act. In contrast, Young had several impressive fights, although his prime was -- sadly -- so short.

[dempseyfire]

Young never got his ass handed to him like Byrd vs Ike and Wlad? He did get pummeled by Cooney and Shavers, and Byrd never lost TWICE to an opponent the calibre of Ossie Occasio.

Whoa... so we're bringing up fights where Young was a 10 fight novice or a fat washed up Young impersonator?

Young got iced in the 3rd by the hardest hitter ever (as a novice v a 45-1 pro), but came back shortly thereafter to outbox Shavers but only get a draw.

I wouldnt say Cooney pummeled him, although he did get a bad cut. He was not bounced off the floor as Byrd was v Wlad K and Ike.

You honestly believe Byrd "schooled" Evander Holyfield...? Do you believe Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick "schooled" Ali?

And did Maurice Harris "school" Larry Holmes?

Holyfield fought with one arm for most of the fight.

That's the only way how Byrd can "beat" classy opposition.

Byrd was 35 when he got TKO'd by Wladimir in the rematch . .. how old was Young when he lost to Jaws?? Or Cooney?? You are allowing Young all the excuses in the world and allowing Byrd none.

Was Ali not incredibly out of shape when Young made him look foolish?

I'm saying fair is fair . . .you seem to be juding Young based on certain criteria and being much harsher on Byrd.

Yes, Holyfield was old and had a bad shoulder. But he'd basically had a bad shoulder since the 2nd Moorer fight, and one fight before had looked fairly impressive beating an in-shape Rahman (and depite the head collision, Evander was simply outboxing Hasim). Again, I'm not saying Byrd beats a prime Evander by any means, but to dismiss his win over him as 'fake' is ludricrous.

In that mind, Cassius Clay never beat Liston in their first fight. Hatton never beat Tyszu . . . .does any fighter losing due to an injury become a 'fake' loss?? This is friggin' prizefighting!!!

And, this is coming from of one Wladimir's biggest critics.

Klitschko would've beaten Young in dominant fashion similar to how he beat Byrd.

Style-wise, a patient, power-hitting tall rangy fighter is all wrong for Young.

[pundit]

Whoa... so we're bringing up fights where Young was a 10 fight novice or a fat washed up Young impersonator?

Young got iced in the 3rd by the hardest hitter ever (as a novice v a 45-1 pro), but came back shortly thereafter to outbox Shavers but only get a draw.

I wouldnt say Cooney pummeled him, although he did get a bad cut. He was not bounced off the floor as Byrd was v Wlad K and Ike.

You honestly believe Byrd "schooled" Evander Holyfield...? Do you believe Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick "schooled" Ali?

And did Maurice Harris "school" Larry Holmes?

Holyfield fought with one arm for most of the fight.

That's the only way how Byrd can "beat" classy opposition.

Byrd was 35 when he got TKO'd by Wladimir in the rematch . .. how old was Young when he lost to Jaws?? Or Cooney?? You are allowing Young all the excuses in the world and allowing Byrd none.

No excuses needed. Byrd never had the kind of fights that Young had again Ali, Foreman, Lyle. In fact he never fought opponents of that caliber. Btw, he was 29 when Vlad hit him from pillar to post the first time.

Yes, Holyfield was old and had a bad shoulder. But he'd basically had a bad shoulder since the 2nd Moorer fight, and one fight before had looked fairly impressive beating an in-shape Rahman (and depite the head collision, Evander was simply outboxing Hasim).

I thought Holyfield tore a rotator cuff IN that fight.

[The Great John L]

Klitschko would've beaten Young in dominant fashion similar to how he beat Byrd.

Dempsey, we agree on many things, but I don’t see a Wlad-Young matchup quite the same way. While I think Wlad would have been a very tough fight for Young, Young was a bit harder to hit than Byrd, and if the fight had been 15 rounds, it would have been a matter of Young surviving in a shell and counter punching during the first half of the fight and then taking charge in the second half. I think Young at his best was better than Wlad, but as you noted, Wlad would have been a tough matchup and I think it would have been pretty much a tossup.

[zojo]

Tiger, you must be new here. The rule is simple:

Always pick the fighter of the past to beat a fighter of today.

[I Feel Fine]

I have to be honest in saying I never saw Young-Norton, but my understanding is that many thought Young won. I'm an Ali fan, I believe Ali in his prime, or even Ali in 72-75 beats Young... but the 235 lbs post-Manila Ali who fought Young lost clearly. And Young put prime Foreman into retirement in the 1977 Fight of the Year.

Byrd got schooled by Fres Oquendo and Andrew Golota

The only thing you can say is that Byrd had more longevity... but longevity into what? A run as paper champion where he should have lost in 2/4 title defenses and then got pummeled by Wlad... Young burned out younger but he had an amazing career prior to that... and if there were four belts back then maybe Young picks one up...

[dempseyfire]

I have to be honest in saying I never saw Young-Norton, but my understanding is that many thought Young won. I'm an Ali fan, I believe Ali in his prime, or even Ali in 72-75 beats Young... but the 235 lbs post-Manila Ali who fought Young lost clearly. And Young put prime Foreman into retirement in the 1977 Fight of the Year.

Byrd got schooled by Fres Oquendo and Andrew Golota

The only thing you can say is that Byrd had more longevity... but longevity into what? A run as paper champion where he should have lost in 2/4 title defenses and then got pummeled by Wlad... Young burned out younger but he had an amazing career prior to that... and if there were four belts back then maybe Young picks one up...

Sorry but if you think Golota "schooled" Byrd you need to re-learn proper scoring of a boxing match.

I'm not saying Byrd was better but some people developed such a hatred for Byrd while he was fighting (and the HBO commentators were always so biased against him it was sick). No he wasn't a hard puncher, but I would've rather watched Byrd vs McCline (another very entertaining fight), Golota, Tua, or both Klitschkos than the overweight slobs that filled up the HW ranks in the late 1990s/early 2000 (Rahman-Ruiz, Ruiz-Anybody, Kirk Johnson, fat Tua blowing any shot he had vs Lennox Lewis and Rahman . . .Byrd always came in shape and had more skills than anyone else at the time besides James Toney and Lennox Lewis. And he was basically a natural 180 lber.

[I Feel Fine]

I have to be honest in saying I never saw Young-Norton, but my understanding is that many thought Young won. I'm an Ali fan, I believe Ali in his prime, or even Ali in 72-75 beats Young... but the 235 lbs post-Manila Ali who fought Young lost clearly. And Young put prime Foreman into retirement in the 1977 Fight of the Year.

Byrd got schooled by Fres Oquendo and Andrew Golota

The only thing you can say is that Byrd had more longevity... but longevity into what? A run as paper champion where he should have lost in 2/4 title defenses and then got pummeled by Wlad... Young burned out younger but he had an amazing career prior to that... and if there were four belts back then maybe Young picks one up...

Sorry but if you think Golota "schooled" Byrd you need to re-learn proper scoring of a boxing match.

I'm not saying Byrd was better but some people developed such a hatred for Byrd while he was fighting (and the HBO commentators were always so biased against him it was sick). No he wasn't a hard puncher, but I would've rather watched Byrd vs McCline (another very entertaining fight), Golota, Tua, or both Klitschkos than the overweight slobs that filled up the HW ranks in the late 1990s/early 2000 (Rahman-Ruiz, Ruiz-Anybody, Kirk Johnson, fat Tua blowing any shot he had vs Lennox Lewis and Rahman . . .Byrd always came in shape and had more skills than anyone else at the time besides James Toney and Lennox Lewis. And he was basically a natural 180 lber.

No, you're right there. I was trying to remember my scorecard and now that I think of it I believe I only had Golota up by a couple of points. I was thinking more along the lines of the Oquendo fight... that decision was a flat out robbery, if I remember right.

Anyway, I respect Byrd in terms of his always being in shape and his heart, he tried to fight on against Ike and Klitschko... I think most people would give Byrd that. I don't particularly care that Byrd isn't a big puncher... there are several fighters I like that aren't big punchers. But, at least as IBF belt holder, Byrd got hit a lot, got, as I said, 2/4 controversial decisions in his title defenses... and at least at that point in his career he never struck me as the great boxer his fans were making him out to be. As a younger fighter he was harder to hit and was a good boxer... but he still got beat up two or three times... which happens, and I would agree that Byrd is a natural Cruiserweight and should get respect just for fighting at Heavyweight. But that doesn't make him a great Heavyweight, and looking at Byrd at his best and Young at his best I think Young comes out clearly ahead. Young should have beaten a shot Ali, and he beat a prime Foreman, and my understanding is many thought he beat Norton... and he got a draw with Shavers... I don't think Byrd could have done that, and that tops beating a shot Holyfield, prime Tua, and getting KO'd by Ike and Wlad. As I said earlier, the only thing Byrd really seems to have over Young is longevity... which to me doesn't top Young's achievements in his prime.

[dempseyfire]

I have to be honest in saying I never saw Young-Norton, but my understanding is that many thought Young won. I'm an Ali fan, I believe Ali in his prime, or even Ali in 72-75 beats Young... but the 235 lbs post-Manila Ali who fought Young lost clearly. And Young put prime Foreman into retirement in the 1977 Fight of the Year.

Byrd got schooled by Fres Oquendo and Andrew Golota

The only thing you can say is that Byrd had more longevity... but longevity into what? A run as paper champion where he should have lost in 2/4 title defenses and then got pummeled by Wlad... Young burned out younger but he had an amazing career prior to that... and if there were four belts back then maybe Young picks one up...

Sorry but if you think Golota "schooled" Byrd you need to re-learn proper scoring of a boxing match.

I'm not saying Byrd was better but some people developed such a hatred for Byrd while he was fighting (and the HBO commentators were always so biased against him it was sick). No he wasn't a hard puncher, but I would've rather watched Byrd vs McCline (another very entertaining fight), Golota, Tua, or both Klitschkos than the overweight slobs that filled up the HW ranks in the late 1990s/early 2000 (Rahman-Ruiz, Ruiz-Anybody, Kirk Johnson, fat Tua blowing any shot he had vs Lennox Lewis and Rahman . . .Byrd always came in shape and had more skills than anyone else at the time besides James Toney and Lennox Lewis. And he was basically a natural 180 lber.

No, you're right there. I was trying to remember my scorecard and now that I think of it I believe I only had Golota up by a couple of points. I was thinking more along the lines of the Oquendo fight... that decision was a flat out robbery, if I remember right.

Anyway, I respect Byrd in terms of his always being in shape and his heart, he tried to fight on against Ike and Klitschko... I think most people would give Byrd that. I don't particularly care that Byrd isn't a big puncher... there are several fighters I like that aren't big punchers. But, at least as IBF belt holder, Byrd got hit a lot, got, as I said, 2/4 controversial decisions in his title defenses... and at least at that point in his career he never struck me as the great boxer his fans were making him out to be. As a younger fighter he was harder to hit and was a good boxer... but he still got beat up two or three times... which happens, and I would agree that Byrd is a natural Cruiserweight and should get respect just for fighting at Heavyweight. But that doesn't make him a great Heavyweight, and looking at Byrd at his best and Young at his best I think Young comes out clearly ahead. Young should have beaten a shot Ali, and he beat a prime Foreman, and my understanding is many thought he beat Norton... and he got a draw with Shavers... I don't think Byrd could have done that, and that tops beating a shot Holyfield, prime Tua, and getting KO'd by Ike and Wlad. As I said earlier, the only thing Byrd really seems to have over Young is longevity... which to me doesn't top Young's achievements in his prime.

From the historical perspective, we agree. I don't consider Byrd a great HW, and in terms of ranking I rate Young way ahead of Byrd.

I just think Byrd often gets a raw deal. And that style-wise, a matchup between the two is close to a pick'em fight. Neither liked to fight other slick boxers.

[KOJOE90]

I respect Byrd as a fighter and he was a good fighter but I just think Jimmy Young was a better one (Like I've said before I like bothe fighters).

In their respective primes I would favoure Young to out-think and out-box Byrd to win on points.

There would be no knockout out in this one I feel, both had good chins but lacked power.

Byrd has some good names on his CV, but the fighters he 'beat' on that night I believe Jimmy Young at or near his best would have done just as good if not better 9 out of 10 times.

I am less inclined to believe that Byrd at or near his best would have faired any better against Shavers, Lyle, Norton and Foreman etc.

[overhand_right]

Lyle would likely have done what Ike Ibeabuchi did to Byrd and Foreman would do much worse to Byrd than what Wlad K did.

Young was just on another level fighting in stiffer competition,regardless of whether he became a uninteresed fatty after the Norton fight.

Can anyone not see the gulf between Ali, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, Lyle and Vitali Klitschko, David Tua, Maurice Harris, Fres Oquendo and the 40 yr old brigade Golota & Holyfield???

Have i gone insane??

[BoxBuzz]

Based on your recent testimony, I believe you are of sound mind.

[Ambling Alp]

I am going with Young. Young was just better in virtually in almost every way. He would win a clearcut decision.

[Cojimar 1945]

People may be overrating the 70s a bit. It appears that Young may have deserved to win some fights that the judges did not score in his favour and this is unfortunate. Byrd has wins over Vitali Klitschko and Tua.