The greatest heavyweight of all-time?

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 08 Jun 2007, 07:25

In your opinion, what would make the greatest heavyweight of all-time? I have two schools of thought on this:

1. A guy who starts him amateur career in his mid-teens as a middleweight. He quickly becomes the state junior champion, impressing with good power, speed, technique and a strong chin. He then starts fighting at an adult level due to lack of competition at his age, and still has a lot of success, although loses a couple of fights on points against very good opponents.
By the age of 17 he has grown to a light-heavyweight. At this weight he wins the state title, and goes on to be selected for his country's Olympic team. At the age of 18 he represents his country in the Olympic games at light-heavyweight. He has some competitive fights, but generally outclasses his opponents, winning the gold medal and becoming an instant celebrity.
Our champ shows maturity by rejecting offers to turn pro, instead setting his sights on the world championships in two years time. By the time of the world champs, he is fighting as a heavyweight, standing at 6'2 and weighing bang on 200lb. He simply outclasses all of the opposition, winning event fight either by KO or a large margin. By now he has not lost an amateur fight for almost 3 years.
After having a few months off, our champ announces he is turning pro on his 21st birthday. His first fight is against a former world-title challenger who is on the slide but sports a 30-5 record. After winning this fight by a 4th round KO, he goes on to fight an assortment of opponents, 270lb giants, tricky southpaws and other "smaller" skilful heavyweights like himself. By the time he challenges for the world title at the age of 23, his record is 15-0-0 (12KOs), with almost all his victories against meaningful opposition. He now stands at 6'2 1/2 and his weight is generally around 215lb, his reach 79 inches.

So basically what we have here is a guy who is a real heavyweight in terms of size, strength and power, but with the skills of a middleweight. Not a blown up middleweight like Jones or Toney. This guy DID used to be a middleweight, and has retained the skills that gave him success at that level, but now he has grown to be a real heavyweight with a heavyweights punch and chin.

2. A giant with the skills of a smaller heavyweight. This guy has always been big, making his pro debut standing at 6'5, weighing 240lb without an inch of fat on him, and without silly body-builder muscles. Something of an expanded version of a prime-Foreman in terms of physique. His reach is 84 inches, and he has a fast and powerful jab.
He is an excellent blocker of punches, but also has the ability to slip and parry. His strength is phenomenal, as is his punch power with both hands. He has a granite chin, although due to his defense this is rarely tested. His handspeed is quick, especially for his size. He prefers to fight at a distance, leading with his long, hard jab, setting up for his crunching straight right. He is also a highly competent in-fighter, and likes to go to the body whenever he gets the chance.

Obviously either of these guys could beat all of our champs today, but which is the better combination, the former amateur middleweight champ who has naturally grown to be a heavyweight with middleweight speed and skills.

OR

The gifted giant, who is not quite as quick or slippery, but makes up for this with his physical advantages of strength, power and a very long reach.

In a fight between the two I can see a close points decision going either way.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 08 Jun 2007, 08:41

This represents my thoughts on this subject rather well.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... 2B%26start

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 08 Jun 2007, 15:27

..assuming that anyone bothers to click on buzzy's article....jersey joe walcott once said that ali would probably beat any other heavyweight champion...including..(his own words)...." one jersey joe walcott." i am not saying i agree with walcott.....just think the comment is appropriate here.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 08 Jun 2007, 23:10

I suppose the best answer to the question is - styles make fights.

However, if there is one day to be a fighter who comes along, sweeps away all before him, rules the heavyweight division for over a decade and shows little in the way of weaknesses, is he more likely to be the former amateur middleweight champ, or the gifted giant?

These days I am leaning more towards the gifted giant, but to be honest, the sad thing is that if a truly great heavyweight emerges in the near future, he is unlikely to have the sort of competition needed to go down as an all-time great, not to mention all the politics that could prevent unification fights etc.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 09 Jun 2007, 10:42

Well, think of it this way.

That second heavyweight of yours slightly reminds me of Lennox Lewis, but the problem with Lewis was that he NEVER had a great chin and he just tamed his opponents with an overlong jab...

Whereas, you could have "Heavyweights" like Marciano or Dempsey and (by today's standards) they were actually Light Hewayweights or Cruiserweights....

'Rocket'Rigby · Post by **'Rocket'Rigby** » 09 Jun 2007, 13:41

The greatest can be perceived in so many ways. Is it someone that despite all the difficulties they may face they still overcome them all to rule the world or is it someone that seems to naturally have none of the difficulties the other faces but surprises and gives such dramatic displays of skill and technical ability whereas the other battles for every fight, giving displays of heart and determination instead.

Is it someone that seems to completely dominate all competition or someone that struggles to dominate but trains themselves to outwear their opponents beating them mentally and physically.

These comparisons and lists could go on forever, but it simply boils down to your personal preference. We could compare boxers and run simulators for as long as we can and yet we still could never take away from anyone that they boxed the perfect 15 round/12 round fight and caused the upset of the century.

Regards

Rocket
______
Molon Labe!

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 10 Jun 2007, 06:10

Well, think of it this way.

That second heavyweight of yours slightly reminds me of Lennox Lewis, but the problem with Lewis was that he NEVER had a great chin and he just tamed his opponents with an overlong jab...

Whereas, you could have "Heavyweights" like Marciano or Dempsey and (by today's standards) they were actually Light Hewayweights or Cruiserweights....

Lewis was one of the fighters I had in mind when thinking of my second champion, but more like a Lewis with a Valuev chin, Bowe's in-fighting ability, a Liston jab and none of his stamina issues.

What I wonder is whether it is more likely we will see in the future a fighter like the one I have mentioned above, or a fantastically skilful middleweight amateur who naturally weighs around 220lb, and has great power by the time he is in his mid 20s.

Probably neither :( Although I look forward to seeing how this Povetkin kid turns out, as he is somewhat in the vein of the first champ I created, with the strong amateur past, and similar in size to a Holyfield/Louis.