Marciano is the only undefeated heavyweight champion ever at 49-0 with 43 Ko's. He was a very hard, tremendous hitter and had unlimited endurance. He was short but extremely tough and beaten almost every prominent fighter of his era and in 1969 defeated the greatest Muhammad Ali in a computer movie fight with a Tko in the 8th.
Sullivan was as tough as they come. Hard hitting, vicious and nearly invincible for the last 12 years of his career as a boxer. He only lost once but his bare-knuckle brawls were immemorable...75 rounds with Kilrain, his matches with Charlie Mitchell and his knockout victories over well over 200 men. He held the title for well over ten years.
WHo do you think would win in a brawl for all massacre with bareknuckles and unlimited amount of rounds?
John L. Sullivan Vs. Marciano: Who Would Win?
If they fought under the London Prize Ring Rules, which allowed wrestling, choking with the forearm, head butts and the refs even pretended they didn't see biting I'd say Marciano. Sullivan was only five ten himself so Marciano wouldn't have trouble sticking his thumb in his eye, especially with bare knuckles.
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Tomato-Can
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 28 Dec 2001, 20:00
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Guest
- Heavyweight
Sullivan was the world's best street fighter. Marciano was a boxer. In a street fight I pick Sullivan (depending on how drunk he was). True they were the same height, but Sullivan was bigger. He knew how to street fight too. He was fearless, would fight any one any time any where.
In a boxing match Marciano would win easy.
In a boxing match Marciano would win easy.
You made your self plenty clear, you are wrong though. Marciano was not a street fighter. Sullivan was. You want to know what a street fighter is?
To prepare for his title defense against Kilrain, Sullivan did his roadwork, hit the weights, bag work, and brought in World wrestling champion William Muldoon to work on his grappling. THe two would grapple on the mat brushing up on technique.
In those days Throws, and take downs as well as wrestling was permitted and all in a regular fight. It was not all that much removed from no holds barred fighting of today.
Sure Marciano liked to foul in his boxing matches, but he did not train for that type of fight like SUllivan did. No grappling training with a champion grappler. In those fights you won the round with a take down or throw, or by dropping your man with a punch.
Sullivan also was accustom to fighting without gloves. Bare fisted fights are a lot different than with boxing gloves on. THe experience would be overwhelmingly with Sullivan on this one. He fought soooo many of those fights too.
On top of all of that Sullivan was the bigger man and was stronger. He had heart like a lion and stamina like no other in his prime. Some of his fights in his prime were literally fight marathons.
How many street fights you seen look like Marciano-Charles? Hundreds of punches thrown, both men on their feet for over a half an hour with a ref breaking up clinches. Yes, it was a BOXING MATCH.
Sullivan's fights were just that FIGHTS. Not held in a ring, and the ref was not there to break anything up. Hit your man any where you can from the waist up with what ever.
I said it before, don't bother comparing Sullivan's fights with modern boxers. THey are two different sports. Marciano was a boxer, Sullivan a fighter.
P.S. check out the Sullivan greatest of all-time thread for a good SUllivan story (but I don't consider Sullivan the greatest of all-time for the record).
To prepare for his title defense against Kilrain, Sullivan did his roadwork, hit the weights, bag work, and brought in World wrestling champion William Muldoon to work on his grappling. THe two would grapple on the mat brushing up on technique.
In those days Throws, and take downs as well as wrestling was permitted and all in a regular fight. It was not all that much removed from no holds barred fighting of today.
Sure Marciano liked to foul in his boxing matches, but he did not train for that type of fight like SUllivan did. No grappling training with a champion grappler. In those fights you won the round with a take down or throw, or by dropping your man with a punch.
Sullivan also was accustom to fighting without gloves. Bare fisted fights are a lot different than with boxing gloves on. THe experience would be overwhelmingly with Sullivan on this one. He fought soooo many of those fights too.
On top of all of that Sullivan was the bigger man and was stronger. He had heart like a lion and stamina like no other in his prime. Some of his fights in his prime were literally fight marathons.
How many street fights you seen look like Marciano-Charles? Hundreds of punches thrown, both men on their feet for over a half an hour with a ref breaking up clinches. Yes, it was a BOXING MATCH.
Sullivan's fights were just that FIGHTS. Not held in a ring, and the ref was not there to break anything up. Hit your man any where you can from the waist up with what ever.
I said it before, don't bother comparing Sullivan's fights with modern boxers. THey are two different sports. Marciano was a boxer, Sullivan a fighter.
P.S. check out the Sullivan greatest of all-time thread for a good SUllivan story (but I don't consider Sullivan the greatest of all-time for the record).
I've read two biographies of Sullivan, written a brief one myself (alas, out of print for along time) and have a collection of books about that era and a bound edition of the Police Gazzette covering same, so 6 pack, your information didn't anything to that which I already have. Okay,I was exaggerating a little when I said Marciano would bite Sullivan, but I stand by everything else. No way that Sullivan was stronger than Marciano, whose strength was is biggest asset; pehnomenal for a man his size. Sullivan weighed 190 in his prime, whenever that was, so Marciano would shove him all the way out of Brockton. However, nothing either of us says is going to change the mind of the other,so....have a nice Thanksgikving. 
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Irishlad69
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 57
- Joined: 09 Mar 2003, 22:04
I know this is an old post, but matching rocky against sullivan in the realm of bareknuckle fighting, john l is the overwhelming favourite. I take exception to the unwavering point someone said, that "there was no way sullivan was stronger", not only was sullivan physically stronger, he was much stronger! His measurements - all the more remarkable seeing rocky had the advantage of being in a more modern era - were clearly in sullivan's favour. He had a much bigger chest, thicker neck, bigger fists, was taller, heavier, and as far as contemporary reports go he was faster too. Sullivan was once reported to have lifted a streetcar back on its rails after it had veered off the track, so making sweeping statements in marciano's favour in areas of strength is misinformed unless one looks at the facts.