How exactly is Joe-Kessler a 'superfight' ??

Crew2 · Post by **Crew2** » 11 Jul 2007, 15:49

None of my mates have heard of Kessler , and HBO have come out and said that this is purely a 'european thing' and how the winner could meet Hopkins

So how is this a superfight outside of Denmark ?

Neither have any great wins, apart from maybe Joe over Lacy but then we saw what Lacy was about against Sheika and Typsko( sp? ) ie garbage

Neither are big draws outside of Denmark and Wales ( Amir Khan sells most of the tickets )

I dont see this as a superfight at all

The WBC and WBA belts mean nothing these days -none of them do, and nobody was calling Ottke's fights 'superfights' even though he held some alphabet belts

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 11 Jul 2007, 16:04

Most of my mates haven't heard of Floyd Mayweather either. Now I'm not comparing this fight to PBF-Oscar but you get my point. It's sad because PBF-Oscar had more hype than substance.

With Calzaghe-Kessler we got two undefeated quality SMW's that are on form. Right now there is such a clear gap between these two and every other SMW, the winner will be declared the unified & undisputed SMW champ. Hence, fight fans have been calling for this fight to happen for over 2 years now.

If HBO did say that then they are just ignorant. I hope Showtime get this.

Crew2 · Post by **Crew2** » 11 Jul 2007, 16:07

By these mates I mean mates who are deeply into boxing. They dont know who Kessler is

Actually, thinking about it, I've only seen Kessler fight on Youtube. Is he even on Eurosport.?

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 11 Jul 2007, 16:12

Obviously these mates of yours aren't deeply into boxing if they haven't heard of Mikkel Kessler before. They been living under a rock or something? There is plenty of Kessler footage on Youtube plus you may have seen a clip of the Beyer fight if you caught Calzaghe-Bika on ITV. Don't think he's on Eurosport...

sweetscience · Post by **sweetscience** » 11 Jul 2007, 16:26

the boxers my mates have heard of:-

Hatton
Calzaghe
Khan
Tyson
Ali
Naz
Eubank
Benn

thats about it

STP · Post by **STP** » 11 Jul 2007, 16:39

I agree. Only among the most die-hard boxing fans is this a big fight and it's only because they both showed some good skills against Lacy/Manfredo and Beyer/Andrade. Kessler has never been on British TV (and has only been live on American TV once) and if there was a poll on if Calzaghe should fight this Kessler guy or Hopkins/Taylor/Winky it would be the latter by landslide. Kessler is a poor man's Ottke, he just throws jabs and straight rights and moves to one side and back and throws jabs and straight rights again, and more jabs. It's boring.

Joe Calzaghe was the joke of boxing in Britain and America before the Lacy fight, remember? Seen as an absolute joke. And the general public only tune in or buy tickets to see Amir Khan (Joe has about zero personality), not Joe Calzaghe. Joe is Hated in the States, btw. So no, there's no way this fight is big anywhere, only maybe, just maybe, in Denmark.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Jul 2007, 16:50

It's an important fight. A title unification that will get huge ticket sales. An evenly matched fight between p4p talents. Kessler is not a poor man's Ottke. He takes on tough comp, he's won a landslide fight v a dangerous mandatory on HBO, and he has the best jab in the sport not to mention a fine all round game. As annoying as Calzaghe has been, he's won Ring man and lineal world titles and got himself onto US p4p lists. Calzaghe and Kessler are maybe the best fighters between 160 and 175.

Lacy wasn't garbage. He was well regarded and then anihilated. You can't just rewrite the book. There have been the joke fights, there have been the real fights and this is an outstanding match.

I ask, even among hardcore fans who gives a damn about Taylor, or the Wright-Hopkins fight?

None of my mates have heard of Kessler , and HBO have come out and said that this is purely a 'european thing' and how the winner could meet Hopkins

not quite. HBO have shown both men on Boxing After Dark. If it was purely a Euro thing then why would they bother, duh?

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 11 Jul 2007, 16:58

STP wrote: and if there was a poll on if Calzaghe should fight this Kessler guy or Hopkins/Taylor/Winky it would be the latter by landslide. Kessler is a poor man's Ottke, he just throws jabs and straight rights and moves to one side and back and throws jabs and straight rights again, and more jabs. It's boring.

Joe Calzaghe was the joke of boxing in Britain and America before the Lacy fight, remember? Seen as an absolute joke. And the general public only tune in or buy tickets to see Amir Khan (Joe has about zero personality), not Joe Calzaghe. Joe is Hated in the States, btw. So no, there's no way this fight is big anywhere, only maybe, just maybe, in Denmark.

Oh really?

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60973

Kessler 80%

There have been similar polls on Fightnews, with Kessler being the choice by a landslide.

If Khan sells more tickets than Calzaghe, then why on earth did 35k turn up for Calzaghe's last fight, yet only 5k tickets sold for the quality O2 bill, which features Amir Khan's biggest fight to date??

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Jul 2007, 17:07

lvlarc wrote:Most of my mates haven't heard of Floyd Mayweather either. Now I'm not comparing this fight to PBF-Oscar but you get my point. It's sad because PBF-Oscar had more hype than substance.

With Calzaghe-Kessler we got two undefeated quality SMW's that are on form. Right now there is such a clear gap between these two and every other SMW, the winner will be declared the unified & undisputed SMW champ. Hence, fight fans have been calling for this fight to happen for over 2 years now.

If HBO did say that then they are just ignorant. I hope Showtime get this.

No, I don't get your point, an 9 year world champion - undefeated and universally ranked #1 P4P moving up to challenge a man who has been a world champion off and on for 13 years - consistently considered in the top 5 of the "previous" generations P4P list who looked refreshed vs Mayorga.

Sorry, DLH and Mayweather had plenty of substance.

Compare either too Kessler who has been a champion for just 3 years, who whilst looking good in fights against the likes of Mundine, Andrade - won his titles vs faded fighters (with Beyer often accused of just being there for the payday).

This is a good competitive fight, there is much more substance to this than the Lacy fight. However, it is short of a superfight IMO. Kessler hasn't done enough to warrant being in the top 20 in most P4P lists. Hopkins is closer to a Superfight. What this fight is similar too is Lewis vs Tua.... Current generation champion vs the experts pick to be the next great champion.... but not one yet.

Now, if Kessler had beaten Bute or Froch (or the winner of the Froch vs Bute match) then there could be calls that this is a super fight.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 11 Jul 2007, 17:11

I understand you're a big fan of Oscar Stu, but he was clearly far past his best when stepping in with Floyd. Now I'm not saying that the fight didn't have substance (that would be stupid) I'm just saying it was incredibly hyped up, atleast for me, but obviously hype sells. After about 6 rounds I thought the fight was nothing to write home about. After all that hype, did we expect Oscar to come out and just give away the first round by hardly throwing anything.

HughJohnson · Post by **HughJohnson** » 11 Jul 2007, 17:15

Some of the negativity for this fight on this thread is unreal, I`d rather see this fight than Hopkins/Wright..thats a fact.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 11 Jul 2007, 17:20

HughJohnson wrote:Some of the negativity for this fight on this thread is unreal, I`d rather see this fight than Hopkins/Wright..thats a fact.

I second this post.

People have been moaning about Calzaghe not facing Kessler (one of the most obvious fights that should be made) and then complain when a date has been set for it.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 11 Jul 2007, 17:45

STP wrote: Kessler is a poor man's Ottke, he just throws jabs and straight rights and moves to one side and back and throws jabs and straight rights again, and more jabs. It's boring.

Obviously you haven't seen Kessler if you think he's a poor man's Ottke. Ottke was s**t. He had no power, he used a style that would only be considered watchable in Germany, and he got at least 3 or 4 very questionable decisions. Kessler although largely unknown outside of Denmark is a quality operator and he'll be a real test for Calzaghe.

Even though the majority of Calzaghe's career has been a farce you can't complain about this match up at all unless your a complete donut.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Jul 2007, 17:53

lvlarc wrote:I understand you're a big fan of Oscar Stu, but he was clearly far past his best when stepping in with Floyd. Now I'm not saying that the fight didn't have substance (that would be stupid) I'm just saying it was incredibly hyped up, atleast for me, but obviously hype sells. After about 6 rounds I thought the fight was nothing to write home about. After all that hype, did we expect Oscar to come out and just give away the first round by hardly throwing anything.

DLH wasn't as "shot" as Sugar Ray Leonard was percieved vs Hagler. What made this a Super Fight was that while it could be definately argued that DLH was on the slide - he also had things in his favour (weight, a Golden Boy Promotion etc). So while a good big un would always beat a good little un, would a good but fading big un beat an exceptional little un? Also as I said prior to the fight all of DLH's more sloppy recent performances could be attributed to weight.... at 154 he had had some of his very best wins/performances (Mosley II, Vargas, Mayorga, Castilejo etc).

Whilst I agree they hyped a war and it never happend and for that I am a bit dissapointed. I still thought the fight was a very good one and always had edge of your seat drama. One my card DLH only needed a round for it to be his fight on points for a long time in the fight (from the 9th). So when Mayweather started to come on, as a DLH fan I was screaming at the TV "come on, one good round is all you need Oscar". Alas my card was a draw.

As far as the performance of the two fighters were concerned, it was weird... Even without my "Oscar fan" hat on (and I am a huge fan of both) I thought Oscar would nail and stop Mayweather when down on points or make Mayweather go to a shell and then win a close decision. However, while I scored it a draw it is DLH who took more credit for me than Mayweather, even though it is Mayweather who did officially better than I predicted. The reason why is because DLH's strength wasn't a factor (indeed at times Mayweather looked stronger) what was the surprising factor was DLH's speed and general tactics, untill the last third. DLH's speed shocked Mayweather and this surprised me, DLH's power didn't. As I said the day after the fight, I wouldn't have been surprised that more people AFTER the fight would have tipped DLH (mark 1997) to have beaten Mayweather (mark 2007) at Light Welter. I don't think anyone would have said that BEFORE the fight. This also seemed to be the consensus of the HBO team (from what I have heard), especially Merchant.... Merchant seemed shocked at how DLH could outbox Mayweather for stages of the fight.

While I agree the fight didn't need the hype it got, I think if there was a potential bout that warranted such a hype, then it was this one. Two geniune legends.... one at the top of his game in tearms of wear and tear, the other with the physical advantages. It was a dream match up.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:25

This is a big fight for their careers... its a big fight for the SMW division. Its a massive fight for Danish and British boxing.... on the International (i.e American) boxing scene its not as big.... When divisions contain outstanding American talent (SMW when it had RJJ and Toney for example) then there is interest in the other men of that division.... Calzaghe and Kessler are of incidental interest to most American fans in terms of their relation to potential opponents...

IMO, someone 'deeply into boxing' would have a passing knowledge of the careers of all the major belt-holders and most prospects.... otherwise you just like to watch a fight, which however many fights you watch isnt the same IMO as being 'into' boxing...

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:32

Not sure it's a 'superfight' in the traditional sense of the word (or two words) mainly because their resumes don't list that many great names.

But it's certainly a fascinating unification fight and I think one of the biggest 3/4 fights of 2007 in the context of world boxing.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:40

Crew2 wrote:By these mates I mean mates who are deeply into boxing. They dont know who Kessler is

Actually, thinking about it, I've only seen Kessler fight on Youtube. Is he even on Eurosport.?

Your mates know shit all about boxing in that case, because Kessler has been mentioned on every well regarded boxing website around, and have been talked about in the major boxing magazines as well.

So how are your mates deeply into boxing.

I never saw Pernell Whittaker fight for years, but I still knew who he was and that he was a great fighter.

The Blade · Post by **The Blade** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:49

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Crew2 wrote:By these mates I mean mates who are deeply into boxing. They dont know who Kessler is

Actually, thinking about it, I've only seen Kessler fight on Youtube. Is he even on Eurosport.?
Your mates know shit all about boxing in that case, because Kessler has been mentioned on every well regarded boxing website around, and have been talked about in the major boxing magazines as well.

So how are your mates deeply into boxing.

I never saw Pernell Whittaker fight for years, but I still knew who he was and that he was a great fighter.

Anyone slagging this fight is a knob.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:58

This is as close to a superfight as the division has had since Jones Jr. fought James Toney, and neither man exactly had a hugely deep resume at 168 at the time did they?

This is a great fight, Kessler if he loses will probably suddenly become 'overrated' and 'overhyped' by the self same people who were trumpeting him as the Calzaghe's conqueror and the best thing to come along in a generation.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:59

1 and 2 in any division fighting each other is BIG BIG BIG. And a very good 1 and a very good 2 at that. Calazage is P4P top10, Kessler would be P4P top10 if Hopkins had fought him instead of Tarver. Thats effectively 2 top10 P4P fighters squaring off.

The crowing of the first ever unified Linear Ring Champ at Super Middleweight is BIG BIG BIG.

Yes its HUGE to any real boxing fan and props to Joe, Kessler and Warren for making this 1 happen.

STP · Post by **STP** » 11 Jul 2007, 20:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This is as close to a superfight as the division has had since Jones Jr. fought James Toney, and neither man exactly had a hugely deep resume at 168 at the time did they?

Every armchair US boxing watcher wanted to see Jones and Toney more than any other fight in the world for about two years. They were young, black bombers with breathtaking skills and confident attitude. Benn and Eubank in 1990 in Britain wasn't the same because nobody had seen Eubank box, they just saw his arrogant, upper class attiude on episodes of Midweek Sports Special and wanted to see Nige give him a good going over.

Jones and Toney, nothing compares to that, esp when you see the Toney/Littles and Jones/Tate fights, after those fights you just knew they were the two best fighters in the world (and Gerald McClellan probably the third). Benn and McClellan wasn't the same because everyone fought Nige's bombing days had long gone and that he'd be bombed out of the fight soon enough. Calzaghe and Kessler isn't the same because two years ago no US boxing fan had heard of them, and if they had heard of Calzaghe it was that he was the joke of boxing. Calzaghe did make the US fans sit up and take notice with what he did in the Lacy fight, ofcourse, but Kessler isn't a Hopkins. Kessler hasn't fought anyone and has been on the scene a matter of months, and he's certainly not a Jones or a Toney. Come on.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Jul 2007, 20:31

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This is as close to a superfight as the division has had since Jones Jr. fought James Toney, and neither man exactly had a hugely deep resume at 168 at the time did they?

This is a great fight, Kessler if he loses will probably suddenly become 'overrated' and 'overhyped' by the self same people who were trumpeting him as the Calzaghe's conqueror and the best thing to come along in a generation.

You are right, thats why it isn't quite a Super Fight IMO. Although if this makes sense its a Super Fight for Kessler. If Mikkel wins, no-one is going to slag of JC that much. He's proven. I personally think Toney vs Jones was more of a Super Fight anyway (both more proven than Kessler, both "looked" better than Kessler and probably Joe), but I think the result sort of increased its stock as a Super Fight more... had Toney won, I think Roy would have been seen as Lacy is seen now "overhyped"... It was harder to knock Toney as overhyped, cause he was pretty proven.

Nobody is really labelling DLH as overated after losing to Mayweather... thats why it is true Super Fight.

I like Kessler alot, but for Kessler to be at the level above where Lacy was before March 2006 - he needed to have past Bute and Froch before fighting Joe. At the moment, he's in a similar bracket to Lacy - although technically I think can give Joe more problems.

Note: This post wasn't supposed to be "dissing" the fight at all, its great it is happening - it needed too.... as does Joe vs Hopkins.

BigEars · Post by **BigEars** » 11 Jul 2007, 20:39

If your a boxing fan this is the biggest fight that can be made right now..........bar maybe and I mean just maybe Cotto/Hatton/Mayweather , other than that this is it .

If your mates don't know Kessler they're not deeply into boxing , infact I'd have to question how big you are into boxing claiming your mates are into boxing and don't know who a unified WBA/WBC Super Middleweight champion(I could possibly forgive a unified champ at a low weight) who has fought on HBO and has had a clip of him(even if it was only short) shown on one of ITV's big nights of boxing . His name is constantly in the boxing media too and is mentioned anything Joe is .

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Jul 2007, 21:17

BigEars wrote:If your a boxing fan this is the biggest fight that can be made right now..........bar maybe and I mean just maybe Cotto/Hatton/Mayweather , other than that this is it .
.

It might well be a boxing fan's fight, and its among the "biggest" fight that can be made. However, I would certainly add DLH and Mosley to your 3 man Welter/Light Middle mix. For me, the fight I would most look forward too is Mosley vs Mayweather. Maybe if Tito can look good again, then he could be added to the 5 man equation (can you just imagine the clammour for Tito vs Cotto if Tito looks impressive in his early fights). I think the Wright vs Hopkins winner vs Joe is also slightly bigger. As both have more pedigree and name than Kessler and for the winner its either 1) still got something left in the tank (Hopkins) or 2) surprisingly strong at Light Heavy (Wright).

Other than that I don't think there is a fight bigger in terms of being a fight fan or on a global popularity scene - other than the extremely unlikely Klitchsko vs Klitchsko or a Lennox Lewis/Mike Tyson comeback.

STP · Post by **STP** » 12 Jul 2007, 00:02

lvlarc wrote:
STP wrote: and if there was a poll on if Calzaghe should fight this Kessler guy or Hopkins/Taylor/Winky it would be the latter by landslide. Kessler is a poor man's Ottke, he just throws jabs and straight rights and moves to one side and back and throws jabs and straight rights again, and more jabs. It's boring.

Joe Calzaghe was the joke of boxing in Britain and America before the Lacy fight, remember? Seen as an absolute joke. And the general public only tune in or buy tickets to see Amir Khan (Joe has about zero personality), not Joe Calzaghe. Joe is Hated in the States, btw. So no, there's no way this fight is big anywhere, only maybe, just maybe, in Denmark.

Oh really?

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60973

Kessler 80%

You idiot.

Outside of the internet....